- The Running 2019 thread – beginners/ultras/whatever
Things move on. Modern coaching based on modern scientific evidence rather than anecdotal and outdated science.
I was hoping for some… you know… evidence…
The basics of distance running training haven’t moved on since the 50’s. There have been cycles but the most effective training is still considered to be based on some kind of repetition running. We all do non interval running because we enjoy it and interval running is intense and painful. There is some benefit to it but a lower speeds the benefits are marginal and as I said above it can be counter productive.
edit: the same “outdated science” has just produced a European U20 Xc team medal.Posted 3 months ago
edit2: also the joint road 5k V40 fastest so far this year (early days of course)john_lMember
Been getting back into trail running this year and am really enjoying it – so much so that I’m pretty much not touching the bike during the week, by-product of which is that I’m really enjoying the bike at the weekends…and round we go.
First 10k off road yesterday in a while, with 225m of ascent/descent and just snuck in over the hour – it’s a local race loop, so something to aim for. Was done at a comfortable pace.
I’m currently using Inov8 Roclites, which seem great for the mixed terrain, especially if it’s a bit sloppy. What would the recommendation be for when the trails dry up and get a bit firmer – the semi-slick of trail shoe world.
Sorry if this has been asked before, there’s 56 pages to trawl through!Posted 3 months agolungeSubscriber
the semi-slick of trail shoe world
Somewhat controversially, for dry-ish off road work I like Nike Pegasus Shield. It’s a road shoe but the sole is designed for wet weather work whilst the upper is a bit tougher and is water resistant. I don’t use them in the slop but they do work well in the inbetween conditions.Posted 3 months agomogrimMember
What would the recommendation be for when the trails dry up and get a bit firmer – the semi-slick of trail shoe world.
Depends what you’re running on – the trails near my house are mostly sandy and fine in road shoes, but head up into the local mountains and you need* something with a rock plate and a bit more traction on scree.
* OK, I’m sure someone will come along and say you only need plimsolls, but personally I like having a bit of protection between the sole of my feet and the stones…Posted 3 months ago
Several from my club are racing, and although I love XC I’m sitting this one out. I’d be lucky to be top 100 and it’s a full day out away from the family, so I thought I’d use my brownie points (although I think I may be in a deficit of these) on more significant races!Posted 3 months agohighlandmanMember
Surfer, I think you’ll find that training practices have incrementally become a lot more effective in recent years; course records in ultras are still tumbling regularly in my experience and perhaps of more relevance to normal people, the reliability of folk finishing hard ultras has increased from about 50% 20 years ago to better than 80% of starters these days. How much of that is down to the increasing use of coaching among the middle of the pack runners, I don’t know…Posted 3 months ago
@highlandman I think that is likely due to the lack of history. Many of these events are quite new and they are quite specialised in nature. Also I suspect they get faster as they become established and better athletes participate.
My point wasnt about these longer distance events but the more traditional track and road events. The performance of British athletes is very poor today compared with decades ago. A couple of outliers but the depth has disapeared. If training is more “effective” then why are we not seeing increments in performance at all distances? We are actually seeing the opposite (I am talking generally about 800m to 10,000m)
Foe example over 10,000m
Between 1973 and 1979 UK had 8 sub 28min runners
Between 1980 and 1989 we had 12
Between 1990 and 1999 we had 7
Between 2000 and 2009 we had 3
Between 2010 and 2017 we had 3 (although we did have 3 in one night in Highgate in 2018)
If training has moved on why have we not progressed since the 80’s?Posted 3 months agotrail_ratMember
If training has moved on why have we not progressed since the 80’s?
because racing over 10k isnt as fashionable as it once was and the fields at ultras are going mad with records being smashed due to it being *ultra* fashionable.
The more folk you have doing it the more competition pool you have and the more Drive to push the standard you have.Posted 3 months ago
Well that was my point about Ultra’s I expect they will plateau but a rapid improvement in such an event is predictable. Records in such events are less important anyway in the same way Xcountry records arent taken too seriously.
10,000m is very fashionable amongst distance runners and their is no shortage of athletes who want to be good 10,000m runners. Not sure why you think its “unfashionable” I used 10,000m as an example but other distances have seen similar lack of progression.
The issue is that UK 10,000m runners are not making the grade. There are more races around Europe and the rest of the world for them to run fast times in so why arent they doing it if training is now more “effective” although I suspect many would now struggle to get invitations.
Anyway you didnt answer my question, what new training methods?Posted 3 months ago
@stox Yup! A few of us from my club will be running; be rude not to as it’s just up the road. I’d be thrilled to get into the top half (based on last year’s course time) but mosly going for the experience. Slightly apprehensive about the main event of getting out of the car park once everything’s finished…Posted 3 months ago
@sboardman I’m in Middlesbrough so it’s not far for me. I expect I’ll get trampled on from all angles but it’ll be a great day I’m sure 😄 looking at last years times I won’t be at the back so it’s a good 7 mile training run in my eyes.Posted 3 months ago
On the plus side .. the slower you are .. the less the queue to leave 😄
Have a good run 👍🏻
@stox how did you go? My time estimate was pretty good, but I wasn’t anywhere near the top half (maths is hard).
I’ve not run at Harewood before but found it a really tough course. I’ve never needed to use my elbows that much to make space at the start. Was very relieved the sun went in for the second lap! An incredible experience overall, thoroughly enjoyed the day.Posted 3 months ago
@sboardman brutal! Well done. 56:20 was my time. I had no plan in mind. Training over winter hasn’t exactly been brilliant so I’m reasonably happy with that result.Posted 3 months ago
It was a great experience and I thought it was a great course but I found it tough. I had to have a word with myself at the start of lap 2 and give my head a shake but Boy was it hard work today for me. Wonderful to be part of it and the weather was perfect. That start line was something else!
I ran the BHF half marathon there last year which is a great event but completely different route to today.
Yes 12k or 7.3 miles in my language according to Strava.Posted 3 months ago
A couple of good tester hills in it yes but all runnable (albeit slowly for me yesterday!). It was a great course and as I said, great experience. It’s a bit crazy when the gun goes off with 2000 blokes charging up the hill 😄
@stox good going! I was 55:44, eerily close! I’ve been training a lot more than last year which has helped and managed to run in all five of the XC races in the series our club does, but they are only 7.5km long so the last 4km yesterday were a real test!
Our pen was right in the middle, it was like being a sardine or a starling.
@nobeerinthefridge Definitely worth doing, a fab experience. Assuming the Scottish setup is similar just seeing all the tents is impressive enough. It felt like a brightly coloured medieval reenactment.Posted 3 months ago
First race done 👍
Signed up Thursday, with some misgivings as mentioned above as my left heel wasn’t feeling great. It got worse – hours later my old piriformis problem popped up for the first time in years. The nerve duly loosened off, leaving the muscles in hip, back and ass all spasmy Friday and yesterday. Didnt need that.
Suspect I went out a bit hot, having started near the back I passed loads up the first climb, 2km and 450m, getting repassed by many round a traverse where my ankle was protesting. Descending was really really weak. Nobody was descending as slow as I was. Either lengthening my stride on trail or repeated rocky drops where it was technical, I am a mincer. Walked the final climb, paying for the first one I guess, minced back down to the village for 1h40 (15km), 212/290 general. Unspectacular, but happy to finish as I wasn’t going to bother going this time yesterday. Lots of work to do to on the ankles – I guess 3mths is not enough to condition a lifelong cyclist’s joints! .Posted 3 months ago
So the winter Ramsay Round was not to be. I got into great shape but it didn’t. There was no weekend that was even close to looking good enough for a sub 24 winter condition round. It was either heaps of unconsolidated snow or no snow. C’est la vie.
This was the last weekend of the official winter season and it was like summer. I felt like doing something a bit silly to compensate for missing out on the RR so I did 4 laps of Ben Nevis. I hesitate to call it fun but it was certainly interesting!Posted 3 months ago
@stox – the vast majority of my run volume is commuting, so that has very little impact on home commitments. I then chuck in 2 weekend runs, mainly at 5am so that I get back before the rest of the household gets up. Trying not to let my running completely take over and ruin general family life. As my wife is 6 months pregnant at the moment, she is more than happy to go to bed early, which works well for me too 🙂
@Spin – sounds awesome!Posted 3 months ago
Bloody hell @Spin, did you see the same people (looking increasingly confused) on each lap?
I’m currently working out how to get a few more miles into the week, but things are very much up in the air with a young baby that we’re really still figuring out. I think I’m going to try and do short (1-2 mile) runs on a lunchtime at work, should be able to do that with little to no impact on home life. Barely worth the effort for some on here, but it’s a step in the right direction. Commuting might work too, I’m only a mile from work but I could always take a scenic route home. @turboferret, do you commute with a backpack?Posted 3 months ago
@flyingmonkeycorps I am very lucky with my commute in many ways – 12 miles mainly off-road, a shower, and almost next door to a big Tesco with a Timpsons. I get all of my shirts washed and ironed for £2 a shirt which saves me the bother of both the laundry and transport aspect. My laptop stays at work most of the time so I have to carry very little, just a few items of clothing, wallet, phone, keys etc. I use a tiny Inov8 ultra vest/pack type thing which hardly slows me down. My route also runs next to a railway line for the majority, so I can mix up the distances when I don’t want to run the whole way to or from work.Posted 3 months agoalanfMember
@Surfer – my ‘recovery’ runs are usually with one of my dogs, and are a steady pace, stop starting when the dog wants to ‘stop’ for whatever reason. I started doing this back at the end of September beginning of October as a way to do run every day in October, but I’ve kept going.
It seems to have worked as I’ve dropped a load of PBs in, 10K twice, HM twice, 5 mile, 10 mile and 5K so it seems to be working for me.#Posted 3 months ago
I don’t know if there is a training effect as such but I think it must be benefiting me in some way.
Whether it works for everyone is a different thing and whether there is sufficient benefit to include these runs for people doing less mileage (currently at about 70 – 80 mpw in prep for London) I don’t know, but while I’m enjoying doing it and I’m seeing a benefit then I’ll keep them in the schedule. Not had any injuries in that time other than from falling over in the dark, but that was not on one of these runs 🙂
@flyingmonkeycorps I found that an offroad buggy allowed me to get more miles in last summer when our son was a few months old (I guess 8 or 9 months by then). He loved being out in the countryside so I’d slip off early on a saturday / sunday morning when he woke up. My missus got to go back to bed (to make up for the multiple breast feeds she’d done during the night) and we’d get some runs in the country together. Ace!Posted 3 months ago
@dashed yep an offroad buggy (preferably one that converts into a bike trailer as well) is definitely on the shopping list, most of them seem to suggest 6 months to a year before you use them and as we have limited storage space I’ve not picked anything up yet. Should be brilliant when the weather picks up, it’s a half hour drive to the local woods (though there are some parks within run / walk distance) so we should be able to give MrsMonkey a decent break.Posted 3 months ago
@flyingmonkeycorps the 3-wheeled ones with the fixed front wheel are great for running on rough ground, but the fixed front wheel is rubbish on tarmac as it tracks in a fixed direction and is hard to turn. Once it gets on rougher ground you find the front wheel is constantly bouncing (very slightly) so it’s easy to change direction / keep it on track. We’re central Manchester so also a drive to get to any proper countryside, but 20-30 mins gets me to Poynton and access to Lyme Park which is a huge National Trust property overlooking the city. Big red deer herd and fairly wild feel to it once you’re away from the car park, and loops up to 15km or so – brilliant at 7am on a sunny summer morning before anyone else arrives 🙂
We’ve got the out and about nipper sport I think it’s called – recommended although not tried anything else to compare.Posted 3 months agoPiefaceMember
I’m trying to be a bit more focused with my training e.g. structuring it around specific races but I’m getting sucked in to chasing the numbers and probably end up doing far too many junk miles. I’m typically clocking up 60 miles a week or more, I run in and out of work for 4 days a week, then a long run (20 miles off road) on Saturday.
I have a series of races this year and the longest one is 15 miles but with an awful lot of hill-climbing (7000 ft), I should probably swap out my long run on the weekend for something that closer replicates that.
I’m also on the horns of a dilemna, I fancy having a shot at the British Fell champs this year, 2 of the races I’m doing anyway, however the only other one I can do is pretty much in the Cairngorms and its a 5 mile race. Its a long way to go for such a short race but if I can get a lift with a club-mate it seems like a no-brainer.Posted 3 months ago
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