I spent the weekend hiking in the black mountains but scoped out a lot of good trail running! Definitely heading up there for some miles.
Chatted to a lot of people doing the Brecon trail marathon. Anyone on here do it? Something like 6500ft of climbing! I was worried about the 4000ft. Limping in the ultra I’ve signed up to but hopefully some mountain days will help me out. Back on some road bikes tonight I think.
Fair play to you all, sounds like a good weekend for all!

@andyb39 well done for getting that far!

I was a bit gutted I did not set off earlier on the 2nd day but the tight cut offs caught me by surprise in that heat. Rest of the days I found okay. Really quite enjoyed day 5 as the terrain suited me.

End of day 4 from the water point to the finish was just unpleasant but was the only day I finished in daylight apart from the final stroll into the finish day 6.

Going to go back 2023 to finish it properly and see this year as just a long recce

Hurrah!

After slowly working up to it, I can now manage 5k without becoming a cripple the following day. I got through a doubt of increasing the pace when running 2k. Once I’d settled at about 12kmh I was able to build up distance, running on treadmill or road.

My best time so far for 5k is 24:09, which I’m mightily chuffed with. especially as it has no lasting effect on being stiff and sore the next day.

It means that when I’m on the ship at work it’s another piece of kit (treadmill) I can use.

What do you seasoned runners think of weight training / pre-hab stuff for preventing injuries?

I’m week 7 of C25k and blummin loving it. I’m not sure what I’ll do once I’ve finished, maybe some of the Nike Run Club plans to continue gradually building into it. And a Parkrun.

But I loathe the gym. once a week I do a bit of body weight stuff at home. I do paddle board couple times a week and thought this beneficial cross training (and fun!) but doubt this will continue once the weather turns in, unlike running which I prefer in crap weather. It’s the stabilisers I need to work?

First 5k in a long time on Monday, still in pieces today! 😂

Hip flexors feeling it in particular, hoping that’s a good sign and the stubborn little feckers will gradually open up a bit!

Also hoping I can get the recovery period between runs down from 4 days! 🙄

I do absolutely no gym/strength/core/stretching etc.  All I do is run.  I’m not saying this is ideal, all the professional runners do a lot of other stuff to keep them in shape/strong/prevent injury, but I’m surviving OK without.  How much could my running improve if I did all of the ancillary stuff, I’ve no idea, maybe I should try and fit some in.  The problem for me is it’s just so boring….

Aye, you’d think you’d be okay given the amount of running you do!

I Had a knee issue recently, which is basically caused by having weak glutes and quads on my left leg (a remnant of my fitba days, ridiculously one sided!).

Some strength work on the leg has helped lots, but it’ll take a while to build up properly. You’d think running so much, you wouldn’t have weak leg muscles, but I’m sure it’s possible to favour one leg and glide with the other.

The 100 days of christmas has got me my running mojo back btw, even having thoughts of rejoining the club.

I took weight training a bit more seriously in 2018 and it made a noticeable difference when trail running, particularly on long technical descents (the kind that take more than half an hour). On flatter running it didn’t seem to be particularly useful. (2019 I carried on with the weights up until July or so, although I was doing triathlon that year and not much trail – I was going to get back into them in 2020 but…)

I would have done more this year, but unfortunately due to the bloody covid restrictions it was hard to fit in. They’ve been recently lifted locally, and I’ve started again. Hopefully in a couple of months I should start seeing the benefits.

Thanks @turboferret that’s the answer I was looking for 🤣

It may be beneficial, but god it’s boring

I have a paddleboard too, and despite the claims, I’m not convinced it’s much of a workout really, unless you’re properly going for it. I get much more of a workout the days I go with my daughter and spend a few hours diving off and messing about in the water!.

It may be beneficial, but god it’s boring

I’ve got a long way to go (see also the stretching thread) but I got a taste of the benefits on the bike which is enough to motivate me and add some interest just by remembering the extra power I could put through the pedals (admittedly for me I’m visualising long flat TT efforts on the road bike, but whatever floats your boat!).

Running is an excellent ‘leveller’ for me because my heart/lungs are barely getting going before my legs are in tatters! 😁

I can certainly see the benefits of long trail descents – I was suffering a bit towards the end of my South Downs Way 50 race earlier in the year, and that only had pretty small descents compared to a proper hilly race.  I’m signed up for the South Downs Way 100 in June 2022, so I might benefit from some strength work in advance of that.  I’ll probably stick to stuff I can do in the house, squats weighted with a heavy rucksack or something similar.

On the subject of strength training, it probably is important as you get older as your muscles waste away from about 40 years old. Not a nice thought as I’m nearly 9 years in. I too find it dull but do a few leg, backside and core things when I really can’t think of anything else to do.

Funny thing is with running in general is that I don’t think it builds muscles massively. I read that book, the lost art of running, and the author mentions that we diverged from chimpanzees and left them with the strength (they are massively stronger than us but can’t run far), but we got the bounce. Running uses the fascia to return energy. If we just relied on muscles we would tire very quickly. I found it intersting anyway. Take from it what you will. It does sort of make sense as if you do one leg squats the leg tires very quickly.

Obviously, muscles are used, and when running or hiking up hills, that burn certainly feels like a muscle on fire.

That bounce is interesting too. I’ve been trying to stop bouncing when running, but apparently the best runners bounce really high, but also forward. Kipchoge for example. Unlearn, you must…

I do absolutely no gym/strength/core/stretching etc. All I do is run

Always been interested in the training of elite athletes over the years and been lucky enough to train with quite a few. The majority of them just ran high volumes. their training was structured and methodical and done at varying intensities etc however almost none of them spoke much about anything but running. None of them appeared to do much, if any stretching and I dont recall any of them doing any HR training or gym work. I am sure some did but it was by no means widespread. My mate ran 46:25 for 10 miles, 28:15 for 10000m and 62:45 for a half. I ran with him a couple of times a week for years (as well as other with even better pb’s occasionally) and he used to joke about a couple of water filled weights in his back yard and claimed he never went in a gym during his career.

A lot of the “must do” stuff is probably just content spouted by Runner’s World type mags and YouTube channels

I think also a lot of the ‘must do’ stuff is aimed at folks with otherwise sedentary lifestyles, e.g. I think most of the problems and weaknesses I’m trying to rectify are as a result of spending 8hrs a day, 5 days a week sitting down!

Am guessing elite athletes with the time to do huge volumes of running/cycling aren’t also working 40hr weeks in an office?

Also a lot of “must do” presumably depends on your age? Whether or not an elite athlete like Kilian or Kipchoge hit the gym regularly is interesting, but one’s 33 and the other 36. I’m 50 next month… My understanding was similar to what @root-n-5th mentioned, that muscle loss accelerates after 40, at which point presumably hitting the gym would be advantageous.

Any recommendations for a good sports physio and/or massagers in Edinburgh or around? Guy I used to use was brilliant but has stopped now.

I know about FASIC (and yes, the “massagers” down in Leith!!) but wondering about others. Mainly to do with various running injuries etc.

Ta in advance.

I really like Physis on Morrison St.

The physio I saw there was Ola Szyszc-
zakiewicz (Shis-tra-kay-o-vich). Very modern outlook, was doing a PhD when I attended, really helped me get my head around my low back issues.

I do 70 ish miles per week and only step foot in the gym when I’m injured and in rehab.
Like many above, I find it mind numbing and will avoid it at all costs. My wife spends hours there and I just don’t understand the appeal.
Saying that, I don wonder if doing a bit of it would help, but can’t bring my self to try.

13thfloormonk, cheers, she sound great. Will check her out. Ta. Might need to practise the pronunciation a bit though!!

I do enjoy a good kettlebell or bodyweight workout, not just lifting weights per se, mixing it up a bit definitely helps.

30 minute kettlebell sesh tonight far from boring!.

I can’t stand gyms, but then I run, bike, kayak and do Pilates and Yoga so I feel like I’m relatively well rounded in amongst that stuff.

Pre pandemic I used the free gym at work. Mainly did core, then squats, deadlifts etc. Pretty basic things.

Found it helped with maintaining technique and proper posture when I got tired and felt stronger on long climbs and descents.

Personally think it worked for me. I imagine milage may vary depending on type of running. I think more benefit for ultra and longer fell and trail type races. Your 5/10km road will probably benefit more from another run.

There’s definitely a benefit, without question. Guy from my old club has been absolutely hammering the gym stuff for a year now, he was always a good runner, but this last while he’s been exceptional, was 6th in the Cape Wrath ultra recently. He’s in his 50’s as well.

I’m 52, with WFH for 18 months. Endless Zoom calls, I just drop to the floor and do various press ups/sits ups throughout the day, before you know it 200 boxed off Biggest benefit to me is calf raises stood at my desk. Every little helps.

@nobeerinthefridge How do you know?

There is an opportunity cost to training. If you are doing one thing you can’t be doing another. If you do 10k of intense interval work you can’t immediately follow that with a 15 mile threshold run to compare alternative training methods.
The more specific the training is to the activity the better. Other types of training are always likely to have some benefit however never as much as the activity itself.
Older athletes may want to introduce gym sessions but that is as much due to the fact that they can’t increase their mileage due to the greater liklihood of injury. Most of the athletes I know continue to increase their mileage up until the point they approach illness/injury and exhaustion. Once they reach that point, and assuming that is including the necessary quality, then they try to remain consistent.

Bit of a PSA, Nike members sale is on and they have VaporFly’s for dirt cheap if you can deal with the gyakusou colours.

How do you know?

Well, you don’t really, but pretty much every top level athlete these days do a fair amount of conditioning, so there is that.

Cheers lunge, will have a look. Been neglecting my running recently and bunged up with a cold this week but looking forward to some autumnal cooler evening runs.

@nobeerinthefridge so nothing other than your assertions then. OK.

On the other hand here is a random snapshot of Steve Ovetts training. Olympic champion and multiple world record holder. All of his work was running.

Ovett

How do you know he wasn’t just a one off? It’s the exact same thing, we’ll never know. 😉

Maybe if he’s done some conditioning, we’d never have heard of Coe.

The more specific the training is to the activity the better. Other types of training are always likely to have some benefit however never as much as the activity itself.

You probably ought to let Farah and Kipchoge know that the time they spend weight training is wasted, then. I bet they’re going to feel stupid!

Cheers lunge, will have a look. Been neglecting my running recently and bunged up with a cold this week but looking forward to some autumnal cooler evening runs.

I’ve picked up some Vomero’s and some Peg trails that should keep me going for most of the winter.

I’ve picked up some Vomero’s and some Peg trails that should keep me going for most of the winter.

lol how many pairs of shoes do you have now???

@surfer, good chat buddy 👍🏻

lol how many pairs of shoes do you have now???

Err, in terms of shoes that I actually run in…
2 x Nike Vaporfly – 1 almost new, 1 180 miles old and on their way out
2 x Adidas SL20 – 1 in box, 1 300 miles
2 x Nike Pegasus 36 – 1 in box, 1 400 miles
1 x Nike Pegasus 36 shield – 50 or so miles in them, only really use them in the winter
1 x Nike Streak 7 – 200 miles in them and I really want another pair but can’t find any
1 x Nike React Miler – Dull shoes for slow runs, 350 miles done
1 x Nike Pegasus 38 – New ish, 50 miles or so
1 x Kalenji XT7 – Shoes for filth, 150 miles ish?
1 x ASICS Cumulus 20 GTX – Barely worn, basically they’re only used to marshal at winter parkruns
1 x Nike Terra Kiger – Mud pluggers, but not as good as the Kalenji’s
1 x Nike Zoom Rival spikes – Spikes, specialist kit

This obviously ignores the 8 or so pairs that have been retired and need taking to a charity shop…

Plus the 2 I’ve just bought. I’ve not bought any new ones for 3 or 4 months so why not?

@mogrim when you are running 150 miles per week you have pretty much done all the specific training your body can handle. Doing a 45 minute light weight session is more than likely just “active rest” if you are running 30 miles per week you will get more out of increasing your miles first.

Usain bolt did 90 minutes gym work every day and ran pretty quick.

@mogrim when you are running 150 miles per week you have pretty much done all the specific training your body can handle. Doing a 45 minute light weight session is more than likely just “active rest” if you are running 30 miles per week you will get more out of increasing your miles first.

I agree, up to a point – but you need to take into account the amount of time available, and the bang for your buck. I’ve got a gym that’s less than 2min away from my front door, and it’s ideal for a quick 30min session at lunchtime. I’m pretty sure that’s more use to me (with my general focus on long distance trail running) than a 30min run.

I’d also argue that if getting faster/better at running isn’t your main focus, but rather it’s part of a general “do some exercise” plan for life, then in that case 2-3 running sessions a week and 1 day at the gym is probably better for you than adding another running session, particularly as you get older.