I knew most of it from years of fell walking and running, including races, in the area. Somewhat oddly I’d never been in the Northern Fells until training for the BGR. Apart from that area it was the few “BGR lines” that I didn’t know:

up Clough Head
Seat Sandal – Dunmail Raise – Steel Fell
the rakes up Bowfell
the descent to Wasdale from Scafell
Yewbarrow
Black Crag
Kirkfell

Probably about 8-10km in total.

Planning – grab some mates (who you trust) with the promise of a great day on the fells. The hardest job is road support.

@j4mesj4mes – read the excellent Feet in the Clouds by Richard Askwith for an insight into how someone living at the ‘wrong’ end of the country plans a BGR!

No news yet on fell racing this year, I imagine? The FRA handbook came without the calendar this year 🙁

Back into lockdown here for at least the next 20 days – mountains off limits except for the one which falls inside the municipal boundary of a city of 180,000 people. Did a 15k loop of it on a rainy midweek morning and it was still quite busy, and really heavily churned up. My Walshes or X Talons would be ideal for it but there’s 2.5km each way of pavement to get to the trail, should try riding across town instead of running 💡

Feet in the clouds +1, brilliant book.

Study the maps, break it down into sections, run them, learn them, and volunteer to support others seems to be the way to go.

For those who have done the BGR, how have you gone about planning and learning the route?

Study the Harvey map and get out on the route whenever you can. Lots of useful websites.

Can anyone recommend a free or cheap-ish source for training plans please?

I’ve never followed a training plan before as I was just running for enjoyment and have never done any races. Recently been pretty unmotivated (was pretty burnt out after the 100 days of exercise challenge so took a few weeks to chill out and never really managed to get back on the bandwagon – I think I only ran 3 or 4 times in January) and I’m hoping that a bit of accountability from a training plan might help.

I usually prefer hill running but can’t really get to the hills with the lockdown rules just now so I think I’d like to focus on improving my 5k time.

There’s training plans on Strava premium, not sure how good they are, but the Strava sub isn’t much money.
There’s also some on places like Runners World, again, not sure of the quality, my wife followed the marathon plan which was quite good though I’d argue the speeds for the long runs were too slow.

Cheers lunge, already a premium member but I had no idea that was a feature – just signed up for the 5k training plan so I’ll see how I get on with that
6 week training plan starts on Monday 8th so I’ll make sure to get out for a max effort 5k sometime this week so I’ve got a decent starting block to compare it against

I looked at the training plans on Garmin connect, but IIRC you couldn’t specify a pace any quicker than about 7.30 minute miles! I’ll have a lok at the strava ones.

there’s a 5k training plan in this months runners world* which has just dropped through the letterbox, if you want I’ll send some pics sayno?

*wife bought me a subscription, it’s pretty pish!

I looked at the training plans on Garmin connect, but IIRC you couldn’t specify a pace any quicker than about 7.30 minute miles! I’ll have a lok at the strava ones.

This isnt exactly correct, the only way you’ll get no pace choice is if you select “I dont run” in the distance options, even if you select 1-8 miles per week you’ll get a pace starting at 3:45 p/km.

Just completed my first RED Jan, managed to get a PB for my 10k and clock up over 100k, not huge numbers but getting my yearly fitness challenge off to a good start. It taught me not only can I run on no sleep (teething 6 month old) and run in the rain wind and snow but I can indeed run everyday, even if its just to the shop and back.

Ah, maybe I missed that jolmes!

Edit – nope ‘this plan is for runners who intend to complete at 7.00 minutes per mile or slower.

Even if I put in that I do 21-25 miles per week, and say that my average pace is 6 minute miles* the fastest time it allows me to aim for is 22 minutes.

* Obviously I don’t, but to prove the point!

I’ve signed up for the Strave plan now and it looks really good and pretty manageable so I’ll see how that goes – cheers for the offer though Nobeer!

Good stuff sayno, I’ve signed up too, been doing too many easy miles recently, need something to aim at. I’ve talked about getting sub 20 for a couple of years now, time to get it done!.

That’s interesting, I thought it might be a conversion thing then as my Garmin is in km but even that, 3:45 km/min is 5:55 min/mile.

I do see your numbers in the summary about the activities but once inside the plan I can change the pace anywhere from 3:45 – 9:30 min/km regarding average pace.

Didnt like the Garmin plans anyway, did both the 5k and 10k one and I think I’m not great at listening to commands.

I don’t like how it takes over your watch too!

Quick question for all you runners…

I ran my first half marathon last week (off-road, along the north downs way) in my Salomon speedcross trail shoes. I got a few blisters on the tips of my toes, and underneath (didn’t notice whilst running).

Would you expect my feet to toughen up and adjust to this a bit, and the blisters stop? Or is is generally a case of the shoe isn’t quite right for me? They feel great, but maybe slightly cramped in the toe-box when descending.

I have an on-off relationship with running- tend to do it more in the winter as I’m riding less. I’ve been running 5/10ks a few times a week for the last few months though

The runners world 5k 4wk plan was on their Instagram and Facebook pages.

Can only speak for myself, but I wouldn’t dream of running trails in cramped shoes, I much prefer shoes that are a size up, with the laces done properly to stop feet sliding forward descending. Means I can also wear a warm sock that helps due to a wee bit of padding.

Feet swell up too, doing longer distances.

Would you expect my feet to toughen up and adjust to this a bit, and the blisters stop? Or is is generally a case of the shoe isn’t quite right for me?

@spicer, a bit of both I’d suggest.
Some shoes just don’t work, but your feet definitely toughen up to a degree.
I find socks as bigger cause of issues than shoes, I’m quite picky on what I wear and make sure I Vaseline my toes up for anything more than an hour or so of running.

Any recommendations for ‘mud’ shoes that aren’t mudclaws? The sole pattern on mud claws looks to be what I’m after but the narrow fit and minimal drop don’t suit ideal for me.

running off road in a pair of brooks cascadia’s at the moment that just aren’t cutting it. Went over three times on my last run on the moors. They weren’t great in mud when new but even worse now they’ve done 1000km.

so, aggressive sole, wide-ish toe box, 8mm drop. Any suggestions?

Spikes. It’s very icy here and looks like it will be for a while. Looking at Kahtoola at the moment. Nanospikes look like they’re fine for road and pavement but going off-road I’m thinking Exospikes might be more appropriate.

Any other suggestions?

Agree on mudclaws, bought a pair last year, ran Carnethy 5 as their first run, felt like I was wearing Elton John’s platform boots, awesome grip, but dreadful in every other way. Washed and sold em.

Never really replaced them, just use my fujitrabuco, not as good grip, but far comfier and stable.

Today was the coldest run of the winter, sleaty easterly, horrible. Ran the club hill repeat session, as I did last week. Really surprised myself, as I’ve only really been doing zone 2 runs for months now, rarely pushing myself, going through the motions.

But last week was rocking faster than ever pace, this week faster again. God knows where that came from!.

so, aggressive sole, wide-ish toe box, 8mm drop. Any suggestions?

Merrel long sky or innov8 x talon ultra the merrels have quite a thick sole so more protective underfoot in rocky terrain and trails. Supposed to he 8mm drop but feels more to me.

X talon better for technical off piste stuff where ankle rolling is likely but less protective. 6mm drop from memory.

Also newer mudclaws feel much narrower than the older versions of the shoe due to the way the sole is moulded. Mudclaw 300’s if you can find them are a much more versatile shoe than the current mudclaws.

Jambo, have a look at Nike Terra Kiger, that might for the Bill.

I moved on from mudclaws to La Sportiva Mutant. 10mm drop rather than the 8mm you said but ive found them really stable and grippy in all sorts of horrendous muck.

I never got on with Mudclaws, but use the X-Talon Ultra 260 – good grip, 8mm drop and wider toe box as well.

BGR information =

https://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/forumdisplay.php?22-Bob-Graham

http://bobwightman.co.uk/run/bgr_notes.php

The 3D map / satellite utility on OS online is handy as well, as can Google Maps / earth

thanks for the suggestions. the sportiva mutants look promising so going to order a pair to try.

Thanks for the tips folks. Will keep going on some more hilly off road runs and see if my feet toughen up.
Vaseline to the toes is an interesting suggestion, I’m 50/50 as to if you’re serious or completely taking the pi55 but I’m going to give it a go!

@spicer, 100% serious, it works a treat.
As a runner, I am not shy of applying Vaseline to all kinds of places before a long run. Nipples, toes, inner thighs, armpits, have all been covered to help with chafing.

Afternoon all, everyone well?
Shoe talk from me again.
I’m after a new pair or 2 and am trying to be brave and edge away from another pair of Nike’s (don’t really like the Peg 37’s, Milers are fine but dull and I don’t want to pay £160 for a pair of the new Invincibles).
The key word here is “cheap” as I’d quite like another pair of VaporFly’s and can’t justify them if I’ve just spent £100+ on some training shoes!
So, any suggestions really good value shoes for the slightly wide footed high mileage runners? Seen some Mizuno Duel Sonic on the cheap but I suspect they’re a little racier than I really want.

I recently bought the Mudclaw 275s and compared to the 300s I have already they’re narrower and longer for the same size, 8 in my case, always go up one and all my off road shoes are a variety of Inov8. I seem to get on well with them. The 300s are now the Mudclaw Classic I believe.

Interesting re the Salomon above, I have a pair form years ago which quickly became my decorating shoes as they seemed to give me terrible hot spots, particularly under the arch.

@lunge – I know you’ve said in the past you rate the Peg 36s. Get on ebay and pick some up cheap from there. I do this with Adios. They crop up from time to time, “worn once” or “worn on treadmill but don’t get on with them”. Much less than RRP and even sale prices. Sometimes they come new from the outlet places and people punt them on for a small profit. I’m a believer in sticking with what you know works.

@alanf, that’s the default option but I have a hankering to try something new!

Mutants are my go-to trail shoe. I think I’m onto my 4th pair now. Plenty of padding and pretty good grip in the wet. Very versatile.

I’ve also just bought some X-Talon G210 (as they were the ones that fit best out of the 5 pairs of Inov-8 I ordered from SportsShoes.com!). Very light, much less drop (I think 3mm) and I’d have gone something a bit more robust if any of the other styles had fit as well but the spike / sole works so much better than the Mutants on moorland peat, wet grass etc than the Mutants.

I still think I’ll wear mutants most, but the X-Talons are a step up in grip when it’s properly wet.

Oh and I’ve also got a pair of Nike Terra Kigers – bought them in the sale a couple of months ago. They’re sat in their box under my desk waiting for the spring / summer – not even close to the soles on the Mutants or X-Talons!

@dashed – the Terra kigers come into their own when it’s relatively dry. They don’t really work in mud as I’ve found, but come the spring/summer you’ll be flying in them. Great on hard pack and rock and feel almost road like on tarmac.
I’ve got some X-talon 212s – the classic version and they are excellent when it gets a bit sloppy. Only really deep mud seems to put them off their stride, although mine are starting to get pretty worn after 3 years and are no longer as effective.

@lunge I just bought this afternoon the Saucony Ride13 for £85, seems to get decent reviews and lots prefer over the Pegs. Just got from runningshoes.co.uk in Harrogate and used code FIRSTORDER15 for extra 15% of already discounted prices.

@spicer your shoes are probably a touch too small – need more wriggle room for your toes, plus knowing how to tie laces so it locks your heel in position / stops your feet sliding forwards. Another great thing for toe blisters is Injinji toe socks – but they don’t work so well with crushed toes.

I got some Scott Supertrac shoes from Sportshoes – they work quite well for me as it’s more rocky than muddy where I generally run. I’m less of a fan of stripped-back fell shoes for mountain running as I like a bit of cushioning.

Now in our 8th week of snow on the ground, so lately it’s been shoes with built in booties @scotroutes Grivel Ran crampons work well for me, they’re also enough for mountain use and similar to micro spikes.

@lunge
Sportshoes.com have New Balance 1080 v10s for a decent price – I picked up a pair as an alternative to Pegasus. So far so good, my only gripe is the upper comes higher at the ball of my ankle than the Nikes, and has a sharp/rough point just inside which was causing some rubbing

Shoe update.
After disappearing into a YouTube hole I’ve decided to try something a little different, a pair of Reebok Floatride Energy 3. Loads of positive reviews suggest they’re a solid, every day trainer and with a discount code, £60.
This means I have enough spare for a pair of Vaporfly’s or maybe some Saucony Endorphin Speeds.
Lovely.