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The Annual Running thread – beginners/ultras/whatever
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RonaFull Member
I mean, they’re clearly not the right shoe for the job, but you’re not going to immediately break yourself if you use them for that.
Great – thanks lunge!
turboferretFull Member@Rona glad to hear the stretch worked. Clearly not a cure-all for all sore shins, but was great for me, and apparently at least 1 other!
Road shoes are going to be fine on most surfaces assuming it’s dry, it’s when it gets wet or slippery that you need more in the way of grip. I’ve raced several dry trail marathons and other distances in Nike VaporFlys, a 100% road shoe with virtually zero tread and been absolutely fine. However at the other end of the spectrum I’ve raced a wet and muddy half, and a 15 miler in XC spikes 😀 Also not necessarily designed for that distance or range of surfaces, but they worked great. Rather uncompromising, but fast.
mogrimFull MemberMy question is … would a Hoka road shoe also be okay for a dry, hard-packed dirt trail – a few roots here and there, some lumps and bumps – but a fairly even surface?
I used to do all my running locally on that sort of surface using running shoes, and it was never an issue. I still use them occasionally around here if I want to do a faster workout – trail shoes give you great protection and grip, but at the cost of less speed. The only surface you really want to avoid is anything with pebbles or similar small stones as they hurt.
jodafettFull Member@turboferret Make that 2. Stretches seem to be helping me.
A big thanks to everyone giving advice. Who knew running could be so complicated 😂
RonaFull MemberThanks turboferret – very interesting. And good to know – I suspected my trail shoes might be a better bet if it was wet.
RonaFull MemberI used to do all my running locally on that sort of surface using running shoes, and it was never an issue. I still use them occasionally around here if I want to do a faster workout – trail shoes give you great protection and grip, but at the cost of less speed.
Thanks mogrim – very helpful. I suspect speed will never really be on my radar – probably not possible to run much slower than I do – shoe choice will likely never help me 😂.
The only surface you really want to avoid is anything with pebbles or similar small stones as they hurt.
Thanks – good to know and, for the moment anyway, not an issue for me.
mogrimFull MemberGood run this morning, a few new trails and others that I hadn’t done for ages. A couple of photos from the highest point, “La Peñota”, which is at just under 2000m (1945m to be precise) in the mountains to the west of Madrid:
Just shy of 26km when we got back to the car, in just over 4 hours.
SpinFree MemberOur club sessions start up again on Tuesday. Suspect I’ll be getting my arse kicked!
lungeFull MemberOur club sessions start up again on Tuesday. Suspect I’ll be getting my arse kicked!
We’ve been, albeit unofficially, going for 6 weeks or so and it’s been awesome.
Few things better than getting beaten up on a club run followed by a beer watching the cricket (we share a pavilion with a cricket team) as the sun goes down.
This weeks 8 minute milers was a very civilised run until 3 miles from home when someone attacked. Cue 3 miles at 6:30’s. Wonderful stuff!jodafettFull MemberThis weeks 8 minute milers was a very civilised run until 3 miles from home when someone attacked. Cue 3 miles at 6:30’s. Wonderful stuff!
I can but dream! Shins still twinging but managed 2 slow 5k’s this week. Bought some new shoes so going to give them a bash this week. Hopefully they’ll help along with all the stretching!
mrsheenFree MemberI’ve been considering changing from Asics Cumulus to a different brand. I’ve loved them but wonder if I should try others as I tend to get plantar fasciitis and generally my feet are the only part which get sore during latter stages of long runs. Are there any brands I should consider? Thanks.
andykirkFree MemberI have a query – are shoes advertised as ‘trail’ running shoes simply for not running on nice grass or pavements/ roads and running on the sort of ‘trails’ one might take a gravel bike on or are they for actually running up mountains?
loumFree MemberThere’s a pretty big variation so it’s hard to generalise like that.
I guess it depends what shoe it is and wood advertising it.
Which ones?
Someone on here’s portion got some experience or ideas..lungeFull MemberI’ve been considering changing from Asics Cumulus to a different brand.
I went from ASICS cumulus to Nike Pegasus and Brooks Ghost. Both are similar, well cushioned every day shoes but they work better for me than the ASICS.
I have a query – are shoes advertised as ‘trail’ running shoes simply for not running on nice grass or pavements/ roads and running on the sort of ‘trails’ one might take a gravel bike on or are they for actually running up mountains
As above, it depends.
Some trail shoes are just a road shoes with an aggressive sole unit for some more grip. Others are for climbing mountains.mogrimFull MemberI have a query – are shoes advertised as ‘trail’ running shoes simply for not running on nice grass or pavements/ roads and running on the sort of ‘trails’ one might take a gravel bike on or are they for actually running up mountains
As mentioned more than once, it depends 🙂
The following are variables:
* Sole type – this is similar to MTB tyres: some are more aggressive, with spaced out lugs; others have more lugs which is better on smooth surfaces. Lug length is also a factor – 6mm is about the longest they get, and is good for mud or grass. But less good on rock. All brands promise high durability with great grip, and sometimes they’re right…* Rock plate – some shoes include a rock plate, which provides protection for the forefoot at the expense of less flexibility.
* Cushioning – generally more cushioning is better for ultra distances, if you’re doing shorter distances you won’t need as much. Cushioning agains limits flexibility and adds weight. It also makes the shoe taller, which can increase the risk of you turning an ankle.
* Upper – the upper is usually made from heavier duty materials compared to a road shoe, with a decent amount of rubber on the toe to protect you when you (inevitably) stub your toe on something. A few shoes also use Goretex, but outside of snow running I personally don’t think it’s of much use. Taking this to an extreme, La Sportiva make a full-on winter shoe with goretex and a built-in gaiter: https://www.lasportiva.com/es/calzado-hombre/mountain-running-a/uragano-gtx
* Fit – this is fairly similar to road shoes, narrow/wide etc. If you’re doing an ultra you probably want a slightly wider shoe (particularly in the toe box) to help with swelling. You need a fairly tight fit around the heel to stop your foot moving around on the descents.
andykirkFree MemberThanks, I though this may be the case. I was looking at:
– Brooks Divide
– Nike Juniper
– Inov8 TerraultraI do a bit of road running but would like to try going up some hills – not scampering over rocks/ bogs specifically but will encounter some pretty steep/ scrambly situations in my local area.
RonaFull MemberNice pics mogrim – great to have this kind of scenery close by.
My everyday running scenery is somewhat less impressive, although the other day I did enjoy running alongside a couple of horses racing each other in the field beside me – they beat me fair and square. 🙂
New running shoes are ordered – a bit like waiting for ‘New Bike Day’ – although clearly not quite as exciting. I’m easily pleased.
mogrimFull Member– Brooks Divide
– Nike Juniper
– Inov8 TerraultraI’ve not tried any of those, but from a quick google I’d get either the Brooks or the Inov8’s… the sole of the Nike’s looks like it’d be a bit of a nightmare if you get any kind of mud around where you live.
SpinFree MemberNew Ramsay’s Round record by Findlay Wild (who else?) today. 14.42 which is about an hour and a half off the previous.
whitestoneFree MemberAlso a new Paddy Buckley record – Math Roberts in 16:37, nearly an hour better than Damien Hall’s time.
And …
Carol Morgan set a new women’s 24hr fell record with 65 Lakeland tops, bettering Nicky Spinks’ 64 tops. Don’t know the extra top or the overall time yet.
This year has been a bit of a stunner, only the Men’s summer BGR record and the women’s winter BGR record haven’t been bettered in the Lakes.
NobeerinthefridgeFree MemberThis year has been a bit of a stunner, only the Men’s summer BGR record and the women’s winter BGR record haven’t been bettered in the Lakes.
No racing for these guys, so plenty time to train and plan for record attempts this year. Finlay Wilds record time was unsupported as well.
His time is incredible, local guy to me who is incredibly fit did it in just under 9 hours longer than FW.
NobeerinthefridgeFree MemberAnd Donnie Campbell on track to beat the record of 39 days and 9 hours to do all 282 munros (and bike between them).
surferFree Member– Brooks Divide
– Nike Juniper
– Inov8 TerraultraIf there is a Nike option I would always take it. Consistently the best “general” shoe manufacturer in my experience. There is a shift towards extreme and gnarly shoes when they are not required. Unless you need something heavily studded then I would go for a general shoe with a good outersole such as the Nike waffle which is generally fine for most conditions and comfortable on road and hardpack when you have worn £40 off your Invo8’s
lungeFull MemberIf there is a Nike option I would always take it. Consistently the best “general” shoe manufacturer in my experience. There is a shift towards extreme and gnarly shoes when they are not required. Unless you need something heavily studded then I would go for a general shoe with a good outersole such as the Nike waffle which is generally fine for most conditions and comfortable on road and hardpack when you have worn £40 off your Invo8’s
I’d pretty much agree with every word of that.
For a really good all rounder, look at the Pegasus Trail. Perfectly fine on the road an cracking for most off-road stuff as well unless you’re getting silly. Very much the gravel bike of running shoes.NobeerinthefridgeFree MemberI. perhaps misguidedly, have Nike down as a fashion brand, like North Face outdoor gear, I wouldn’t consider them, but other more knowledgeble folks like surfer above will disagree.
Bought a pair of inov8 mudclaws, ran the carnethy 5 on their first outing, straight onto ebay they went. Awesome grip on mud, but felt perched like Elton John in his 70’s platform boots, the narrowest shoe I’ve ever seen. So that’s inov8 out the window now too. 🙂
lungeFull MemberI. perhaps misguidedly, have Nike down as a fashion brand
I think it’s easy to get that impression, but they do make some really, really good kit.
You only have to look at the VaporFly and AlphaFly range to see the amount of research that goes into their race shoes.
Even the mid-range stuff, I always rave about the Pegasus for instance, is as good if not better than other manufacturers.mogrimFull MemberFor a really good all rounder, look at the Pegasus Trail. Perfectly fine on the road an cracking for most off-road stuff as well unless you’re getting silly. Very much the gravel bike of running shoes.
That’s not the same model the OP was asking about, though! I’ve got nothing against Nike, but the Juniper trail has this sole:
… and that heel looks like it would lethal descending on anything even slightly wet.
lungeFull MemberAgree @mogrim, I just thought I’d throw in another shoe.
That’s not the tread of a trail shoe at all!whitestoneFree MemberNo racing for these guys, so plenty time to train and plan for record attempts this year.
It’s not just the top guys, currently for this year 8 out of 43 BG successes are sub 20hr so 18%, prior to this year that figure was 127 out of 2384 or 5%. OK not big figures to work with or assume a trend but nearly four times the rate? Last year it was 12% and that felt like an exceptional year.
The racing thing works in two ways: less injury and fatigue; looking for something “to do” that isn’t restricted because of group gatherings.
NobeerinthefridgeFree MemberOK not big figures to work with or assume a trend but nearly four times the rate?
A fast round will always generally be around the months when big races are also on, and would mean recovering when these guys want to be racing usually, not an issue this year. Also lockdown will have provided an awful lot of folk an awful lot of time to train and focus more than they normally would.
dashedFree Member@mrsheen – platar fascitis… I found it was the footbed more than the shoe which impacted me. Most of the off the shelf shoes have a crappy, waffer thin bit of foam with no support. I’ve got really high arches and walking on hard floors in bare feet kills me. Same for running in shoes with no arch support. I have a pair of these in my running shoes now – different heights available https://www.shoeinsoles.co.uk/sidas-3feet-active-insoles-for-high-arches.html
@nobeer – I can’t get Inov8 to fit me either but they do come in different width fittings – mudclaws are the narrowest I think.
surferFree Member@mogrim Not very grippy in mud etc I agree. Assumed they had at least a waffly type sole which is generally great on most surface.
Having said that can you show me a sole that does grip on wet rock? It is the holy grail and nothing, even the most studded sole grips on wet rock when descending….
NobeerinthefridgeFree MemberHaving said that can you show me a sole that does grip on wet rock?
Absolutely depends on the rock type IMO, Arran?, everything will grip, the Galloways? nothing will grip!
mogrimFull MemberHaving said that can you show me a sole that does grip on wet rock? It is the holy grail and nothing, even the most studded sole grips on wet rock when descending….
There are degrees of uselessness, though 🙂
And what Nobeerinthefridge said: go running in the hills above Valencia and you’ll be on your arse in seconds, it’s all chalk. Round here it’s granite and usually pretty grippy. Until it freezes, and that’s when we break out the crampons…
steverFree Member– Inov8 Terraultra
I’ve had 8-9 different Inov8s but haven’t particularly gelled with these. They feel a bit lifeless – they fit the same as all the others but these are one of their wider shoes. Maybe I’m just not a great candidate for zero drop? I’d go Trailtalon or Trailroc first. The Roclite is a good all rounder too. They’ll all take a bit of road.
whitestoneFree MemberDonnie Campbell makes the BBC for his Munro record – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-53999465
NobeerinthefridgeFree MemberSaw Donnie coming into Beinglas a couple of weeks back, looked fresh as paint. Amazing effort, what an achievement.
turboferretFull MemberJust back from a week’s family holiday in Kent. Not the most exotic destination but suited us really well and was nice and local too. I planned lots of running routes in advance with the help of the Strava Heatmap which meant I had lots of options available every day.
While not exactly mountainous, certainly hillier than south London, and apparently I climbed ~2000m, double my usual weekly amount. Also for a bit of fun I targeted a few Strava Segments – a total of 29 for the week, 9 of which were during the last run – this was quite a satisfying result after a decent effort 😀
I didn’t run any more volume than normal during the week, I can certainly feel that my legs have done some work 🙂
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