It did feel slow but not too bad. Was doing between 4:52 and 5:48 for the kms. Slowed right down on the hills instead of powering up like normal. Only had heart rate on watch so didn’t look at pace or time. The km times flashed up to give an idea of distance.

Question about zones though. The Garmin seems to say my easy is zone 2, but I’ve always thought it was zone 3. Strava says it’s zone 3. Anyone else come across this?

Also, is it ok to edit the zones a bit? At heart rate 151 it still felt easy but pushed me into next zone. I seems to be able to maintain 151 easier than 149.

Also, is it ok to edit the zones a bit? At heart rate 151 it still felt easy but pushed me into next zone. I seems to be able to maintain 151 easier than 149.

Zones are at best a guideline, and HR is notoriously bad as an indicator of effort – you often get huge spikes at the beginning of a run, then settle into it, then it slowly drifts upwards as you keep going. So if you think 151 is more accurate than 149, go for it. Anyone who tries to tell you it’s a precise measurement is talking out of their arse 🙂

I seems to be able to maintain 151 easier than 149

Aye, I don’t see optic hr being accurate enough to use 2 beats per minute as an accurate reference point.

Wearing my VA4, if I wear it quite high above my wrist joint, the readings are fairly steady, and I can keep my threshold runs to below 140bpm, but if I then hook up my chest strap, it reads pretty much the same trend, but 8-10bpm slower, consistently.

HR is at best a guide and useful at very low levels to hold yourself back when your training calls for it. I have never used it much and have always run by “feel” and “perceived effort” More importantly the fast guys I have been lucky enough to train with have very rarely/never used it either.
I would go as far as to to say it has very little value for “amateur” athletes like us and can be too much of a distraction. I am not a luddite and HR is clearly a hugely important indicator I just think it is difficult to monitor closely during exercise and for us that have to go to work and generally have all the stresses that full time athletes dont have you will find it varies quite a lot. Once you have trained for a while you will get a feel for how much effort you are expending.

it reads pretty much the same trend, but 8-10bpm slower, consistently.

That is a significant margin. I think only the chest ones are really accurate. If you are using HR data from your watch then that margin can make quite a difference.

Thanks for the input, peoples.

I realise it’s not that accurate but I’m not experienced enough to judge a pace properly yet, but I’m getting better. To be fair to it, when I started getting a bit breathy the monitor indicated 155 and rising, backing off to easy brought it down within 30 seconds so it certainly is reading something. I’m sure in a couple of months I will do it instinctively but until then it’s a good guide.

As a reference I usually run at 160+.

I’m not experienced enough to judge a pace properly yet

That’s easy. When you get to half way ask yourself “can I hold this pace for the rest of the distance?” If the answer is “yes”, you’re not going hard enough. If the answer is “no” you’ve gone to hard. The answer you want is “maybe”.

I realise it’s not that accurate but I’m not experienced enough to judge a pace properly yet, but I’m getting better. To be fair to it, when I started getting a bit breathy the monitor indicated 155 and rising, backing off to easy brought it down within 30 seconds so it certainly is reading something. I’m sure in a couple of months I will do it instinctively but until then it’s a good guide.

It obviously does measure effort, it’s just not that useful when you’re planning a workout around it for the reasons mentioned above. (And it’s completely useless for short intervals – your heartrate doesn’t react anything like fast enough). But as a starting point go for it, it’s better than nothing when you’re just starting out.

Root
Different companies/suppliers/apps all use different values on the zones, sometimes different names. They don’t overlap universally, and they don’t always mean the same thing with the same name. So if you’re aiming for a certain zone on Garmin, don’t worry if stava calls it something else. Just be consistent with yourself.
Sounds like you’re building experience and feel for it nicely, definitely have a go editing them around how you feel.
And hills always take extra effort.

Different companies/suppliers/apps all use different values on the zones, sometimes different names. They don’t overlap universally, and they don’t always mean the same thing with the same name. So if you’re aiming for a certain zone on Garmin, don’t worry if stava calls it something else. Just be consistent with yourself.

But thats a danger isnt it. If Strava says run in Z1 (say 110 to 125 for example) and Garmin estimates my Z1 to be 120 to 135 thats a big problem.

But thats a danger isnt it. If Strava says run in Z1 (say 110 to 125 for example) and Garmin estimates my Z1 to be 120 to 135 thats a big problem.

Not really a danger, unless you naively assume Z1 means the same thing everywhere. As long as you stick to either Garmin or Strava you’ll be fine. (FWIW I use perceived effort, Z1 is a gentle recovery jog where I can talk without problem, Z2 starting to warm up, Z3 short phrases only (marathon pace), Z4 5-10K pace, Z5 forget about talking as breathing is a problem…)

Lockdown has been relatively kind to my running – getting out 5-6 days a week, rather than 3-4. Still not much mileage but I’m sure consistency will be helping. Finding new challenges in working my runs around stiles and gates – proudest route was a run with 11 stiles or gates and none touched directly. Almost all my runs are on the trail but felt obliged to do a road run last night (to avoid ‘steady trail plod’ and inject some pace). It was horrible – nothing but the effort to concentrate on! Did get a PB on the mile gravel climb I couldn’t resist throwing in 🙂

Not really a danger, unless you naively assume Z1 means the same thing everywhere. As long as you stick to either Garmin or Strava you’ll be fine

Not really. Z1 corresponds to a HR range. if they are 10 beats apart then they cant both be correct.

Like mogrim, no problem for me .

@root-n-5th the term I use is polarised training – easy runs are super easy, hard runs are super hard. I was, and still am to a certain extent, guilty of doing all of my training in the moderately hardish zone, which doesn’t reap the sort of benefits you might like. I saw my biggest improvement in marathon times after making my slow runs much slower, which sounds slightly counter-intuitive, but has worked for me. It certainly requires discipline to run slowly, and often if I run slowly I can feel more knackered afterwards than had I run more briskly, which is strange… However, an interesting podcast, or some good scenery can while away the time. Exploring new routes is best done at a gentle pace too.

@lunge the Novablasts seem fine, quite spongy and light. They did feel flatter than what I’ve become used to, as if the footbed isn’t quite as formed to my sole, but one assumes that will change as they get worn in. After the first few minutes I wasn’t really aware of wearing new shoes, which is a good sign. I think it’s good for foot strength to get used to different shoes rather than run in the same thing all the time, but that might just be my isolated view based on nothing!

I have the Mulholland Mile to run this weekend, which I think will see the first outing of the New Balance 5280s, mistakenly given to me by Runners World for pacing the Big Half earlier this year.

I am… Moving.
Did 40km this week, mix of walks, and walk/runs. Did 10k last night just walking the middle and last km. When I’ve borked something before, usually find that at least moving it helps.
I think the physios are open now so time to get it looked at.

@loum can you explain how given my question?

I forgot to say that I almost always wear a chest strap, but generally don’t pay much attention to my HR while I run, but do find it useful information for later analysis. For example I recall vividly running briskly home from work last year with a very low average heart rate, which was a great indicator that I was progressing nicely into marathon shape.

@root-n-5th the term I use is polarised training – easy runs are super easy, hard runs are super hard. I was, and still am to a certain extent, guilty of doing all of my training in the moderately hardish zone, which doesn’t reap the sort of benefits you might like. I saw my biggest improvement in marathon times after making my slow runs much slower, which sounds slightly counter-intuitive, but has worked for me. It certainly requires discipline to run slowly, and often if I run slowly I can feel more knackered afterwards than had I run more briskly, which is strange… However, an interesting podcast, or some good scenery can while away the time. Exploring new routes is best done at a gentle pace too.

I posted info of a book about it a couple of pages back. It rang true for me. When I was training hard I certainly spent too much time in that middle “zone” usually chasing faster runners.

@surfer. That book arrived today and I’m going to start it shortly.

Thanks for input on heart rate, guys.

I must admit, I really felt the 55 min slow run this morning, although last night I got in fresh. Strange but true.

Loving the book BTW. After yesterday’s run, I think I’m going to drink the kookaid.

Just back from easy run number 2. Went on heart rate and perceived effort. Really hard to hold myself back from racing people up hills butanagwd it. 12k, 5:37/km pace which is a minute down on usual pace but felt good at the end. Legs feeling used but body in good spirits.

Mile challenge tomorrow, which won’t be as pleasant.

I broke out my New Balance 5280’s for their first outing yesterday, a mile in Wandsworth Park. I did think that I should probably manage something around 4:30ish, so it was a bit disappointing after dying a death to finish in 4:45.

I don’t think my choice of route was ideal, a couple of inclines and rough tarmac, but it was mainly the legs at fault – I certainly didn’t do the shoes justice!

I was planning on repeating the exercise this morning at Battersea Park which is pancake flat and smooth tarmac wearing my Next%. However when the alarm went off at 4:55 I couldn’t be bothered getting out of bed, so that time will have to stand…

Something else worth noting on the HR zones front is that there are a few ways to calculate zones. I believe Lactate Threshold HR% is generally regarded as the best way, more so than purely just going off % of Max HR. You can change how zones are derived on your Garmin and you might even be able to do a guided lactate threshold test too. As already said more slow miles seem to help, there is a lot out there and 80/20 is common, 80% easy and 20% hard. Training in mid zone 3 neither helps recovery or helps improvement.

I’ve found training to zones helpful as a way to help me to run slower which takes some discipline.

@turboferret – Those shoes look like you’ve bandaged your feet! Good timer despite your disappointment.

I did my mile and came in at about 6:11 with gravity assist. Not unexpected as not really been doing any speedwork. Hope to break 6 one day.

Finished the 80/20 book and loads of good ideas in there. Like the idea of polarised training and the lactate threshold (thanks @sowler) seems to be a good way to work out zones, as well as perceived effort.

I’ve got the club 10K in 3 weeks (same route for all, but can do it solo any time over a week) and I’ve devised a condensed training plan from a 12 week plan in the book – 1 week base, 1 week peak and 1 week taper, all on the 80/20 principle. Not sure it will be long enough but there are a couple ef hill type sessions, a bit of tempo, but lots of longer, slower runs. Some recovery runs are in zone 1, which I can’t see being much above walking pace. Is that right? Just about got on top of keeping in zone 2, which feels slow, but zone 1 is going to be tough!

Hoping to go sub 45 on a flat course – I did it last time with a nice gravity drop for the first 2Km. Being not very experienced at 10K I think I went off too fast and suffered for about 95% of it and slightly twinged my arch. Going to go off slower and build up throughout the race.

Discovered Garmin Connect Workouts. Created all of the training sessions I need in Garmin Connect, which was really easy, uploaded to my watch, added them to the calendar, so I just get on my shoes, get out there and press go.

As for shoes, I talked to a really helpful chap at a shop called Northern Runner. I was going to buy some wide toe box Brooks, but ended up with some Topo Ultrafly in size 12. So far so good – loads of room in the toes, lighter than my Saucony, lower drop at 5mm which I like and after 35Km the arch pain is going. Expensive but hopefully worth it.

Keep at it all.

First very unofficial “club run” last night, 3 groups of 3 people set off in different directions. I decided to join the faster group to see how my high mileage/low pace spring has left my legs.

And I absolutely loved it. I find it so hard to go and push myself to run fast when training solo so going with a group suddenly pushed me way out of my comfort zone. Felt shattered at the end as I really had to work he’d to hang on at one point, but my gosh it was worth it.

It was great to be, very unofficially, back.

I find it so hard to go and push myself to run fast when training solo so going with a group suddenly pushed me way out of my comfort zone.

Training in a group for whatever sport is so much better. Even a seemingly solitary sport like running. And you gotta love that shattered feeling after a decent training session!

I’m getting used to running on my own – hope I’m not getting anti-social.

I’m a big admirer of Garmin kit. Managed to find my Garmin chest strap HRM that I got with my Edge705 in 2009. Not used for about 9 years. Put a new battery in, put it on, set watch to find it and, Boom, it works. Seems more stable than the wrist but I’m going to have to tweak my zones a bit.

Been running 3 days in a row. Feeling it a bit but hill reps tomorrow.

I like running on my own, but when it comes to training I find a group is much better. Not to mention the social aspect, but that’s obviously a bit more subjective!

Ahh damn it, my VO2 max on garmin had just increased to 52 before my shoulder injury, after 3 weeks off it was at 51, then 50 after todays run.

That’s what 3 weeks not running does I suppose. Getting back into it now though, should do over 15k this week, will do the same next week to get the legs used to running 3x a week again.

I’ve been running steadily last few months, mostly road to trail stuff up to half marathon distance, fartlek-esque in that I’ll bang the occasional segment or climb, then amble along afterwards.

I thought that not doing my daily bike commute, or having any races planned and hence no real training as such, intervals or that, might have affected overall fitness but according to garmin vo2max has crept up to 64, only one point lower than when I actually did some training for Balmoral last april. Managed a 41m 10k a month back so can’t grumble.

Ffs. Just turned my ankle 1km into a nice steady long run I’d planned to fill in some time while the dog was in the vets. One of those bang-you’re-on-the-deck before you even know what happened moments. Suspect that’s me out for a few weeks as can only hobble on it at the minute.

Running sometimes play a its part in boosting fitness. But i mostly focus on cycling, during training i use weights, which strengthen my legs and stamina.

@dashed these things happen 🙁

Any plans for this weekend? I really ought to be resting as I’m nursing a calf injury, but it’s the first weekend my mates are allowed out since lockdown started, so I suspect a 20km run up a mountain is on the cards…

Plans for weekend? I’ve done no running this week, fancied a break, and the local trails are dry as a witches tit, so been biking instead. Got the WHW virtual relay tomorrow, 9.6 miles each, though I’ll have to run the 5 miles back from the person I’m handing over to’s house afterwards.

@dashed Ice and elevation plus NSAIDS for a few days. Sometimes these things clear up quite quickly although they are bloody painful at the time.

@surfer – fingers crossed! 😁

@dashed. Nasty that but hopefully mend soon. Too easy to do.

4 days of consecutive running here – first time ever. Today was fifth day and program said a 45 min run in zone 1. An outing with the 4 year old On bike keeping up at a brisk walk was sufficient. It’s meant to he REALLY easy.

I’ve lowered my zones a bit as I think my zone 2 was too high. Long run tomorrow in zone 2 which will be pleasant.

Did hill reps yesterday for the first time in ages. 8×1 min with 2 mins recovery down. Went well and got a strava KOM without knowing. Not particularly relevant but inspires a bit.

Programmed workouts into Garmin forerunner watch and it’s truly brilliant!

So todays big achievement was that I finally managed to get seen by a physio. 🙂

Physio thinks I have damaged a ligament. 🙁

I now have a list of exercises to do twice a day and another appointment in 2 weeks.

In the absence of spring marathons I decided a silly goal was appropriate, and this appeared on my radar, the Jubilee Greenway, a 60km ring around London.

Did a bit of a recce for the start this morning, which including running to and from, was 38km. After yesterdays session I certainly felt it in the legs. Starting just after 4:30am meant it was nice and quiet out and I was home by 7. The plan is to run it on the longest day, next Saturday and knock about an hour off the current record. This is well into unchartered territory as I’ve only ever run supported marathons as my longest events, so in preparation I bought an ultra vest to carry some fluids. Decathlon only had XS but I thought I’d take a punt as I’m pretty scrawny. Turns out it’s a pretty good fit for a 4 1/2 year old 😀

I started this morning with about half a litre, and only had a few sips – as much as I could really stomach, along with 3 gels, but had lost about 1.5kg in sweat according to the scales by the time I got home. We shall see how it goes next weekend!

Well, you will choose these easy challenges! Good luck. I still think your buggy 5k should be recognised. If they can give credit to someone who has the most toothpicks in their heard surely yours is less trivial that that!

Did 17k in zone 2 today. Crawling pace by the end but stuck to it. It better had work!