I’ve had a dull headache and felt really foggy even by my standards since surfacing very late at 1000 today, but I took paracetamol instead of ibruprofen because of this “urban myth,” in the hope I’d ride outdoors before dinner or jump on the turbo.

Not so sure its an urban myth given that it’s being said by doctors and physiologists involved in endurance sport.

Over stated for your average bod? Maybe? But relying on it to carry on training when you probably shouldn’t? I’d take it and other painkillers with me on a trip for just incase, but I’d not be taking it on a regular basis to go out.

This from someone suffering from osteoarthritis in knees and wrists with a cupboard full of stuff I could take.

My wife and I both got migraines on Tuesday this week, my wife reckons that the big pressure change with the weather was the cause. Could also affect mood.

Hmm, seems like current thinking is shifting again…

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/does-ibuprofen-help-or-hurt-your-workouts/#:~:text=So%20bottom%20line%3A%20taking%20NSAIDs,to%20run%20faster%20and%20longer.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18461099/

I’m thinking I’ll stick to using it well in advance of sessions, or on rest days perhaps, if needed. It’s not exactly acute pain anyway. Maybe even some Voltarol gel although I’m pretty sure the muscles that are bothering me are ‘shielded’ by other muscles, so not sure of how effectively Voltarol rubbed on the skin really is…

I used to take 1000mg of ibuprofen with a can of Redbull sometimes before riding with some friends who were quicker than me. Used to work well. But I was still in my twenties and didn’t do it all the time.

Never tried amphetamines and cycling though, wonder what that feels like. 🤔

I sometimes take triptans for migraines and apparently they can be used as a PED. There was a rumour that Team Sky used them. They’re not on the banned list as far as I know.

Yeh I’m not sure of the effectiveness of gels and patches either. I can tell you they do SFA for me on my joints and neither does CBD oils.

I now tend to only take something if really struggling in daily activities and don’t do ones that hurt.

TBH I think if you looked at the amount of anti-inflammatories pro’s take pretty regularly you might be surprised. Ibuprofen and other NSAIDs definitely reduce renal blood flow but it shouldn’t be significant for young healthy people. I would caution doing exercise with any pain that isn’t helped significantly by paracetamol/ibuprofen as they are very effective painkillers and anything that doesn’t pretty much go away after half an hour shouldn’t be ignored.

I wanted to ask how much gym and weights work people are doing? I have bought a cage, barbell and other associated equipment and now trying to religiously stick to one gym session a week. I use the fit4racing program which is pretty hardcore but I feel gives you enough bang for your buck you can just cycle or turbo the rest of the time. I’m not sure increasing the frequency would give me enough benefit.

I used to do a super abbreviated full body program once to twice a week, all compound lifts,but haven’t been able to for some time with my joints.

Upper body stuff is now just press ups, dips and chins now really, once to twice a week when I can. Other than that it’s cycling, walking and a bit of sea swimming

Once I can get my cortisone injections in my wrists again and the gym opens I’ll probably do one heavy short session a week.

“Urban myth” in quotes was used because it’s something I’ve heard and/or read in recent years, but I’ve not taken the time to read scientific research on it. Generally I hate taking painkillers, I had to take dichlofenac for over 12 months when I wrecked my lower back muscles in 2008, but they were so strong I could do further damage without realising it until that dose had worn off.

Bit annoyed, but a second day off in a row and no training session or race, nothing since Monday’s Tempus Fugit TT where the data said I set new personal records if I can believe my Direto’s power meter. https://www.strava.com/activities/4792440035/analysis Back once again wondering if this is another long Covid fatigue relapse, mental fatigue from Seasonal Affective Disorder, interupted sleep the last few nights or a bit of all three.

Starting to think that maybe I should reduce the Z4+ stuff to once a week max and start focussing on building up (or ensuring I have) stamina for hopefully 2+ hour rides outdoors from March, bit like the “fake” Festive 500 I managed at Xmas. Since F500, the longest rides I’ve done on the turbo are the longer STW races, but these have me on my power limits and way above the average pace I’d hope to do on solo rides.

That’s a bummer nobodyofthegoat 😢

Just remember you can’t tough it out of post viral fatigue stuff. Take it easy building back, boom and bust will just make it take longer to recover, spoken from personal experience… I really have bloody awful genetics, thanks mam and dad 😣

I used to do 1 or two weights sessions a week, nothing huge, just an hour. This really helped with lower back pain from cycling (generally sitting on my arse all day then going out on my bike).

@n0b0dy0ftheg0at I second to take it easy although as a counter to that with an 8 month old in the house even 1-2 nights of interrupted sleep can be devastating for my function on the bike and just general drive to even get on a bike! Sleep is so essential for fitness gains and motivation. Not good when you aren’t getting enough.

I’m hoping the weights will make a difference both in mtb and road. It will be interesting to see how much difference it makes to mtb as I have’n’t been out since December!

Re. weights I was looking back at what I did. Not bike specific in anyway.

3 sets of 5-8 reps heavy and slow. As much as 4 days in between workouts at ‘spit and sawdust’ gym.

Day 1: deadlifts, bench press, pull downs, shoulder press
Day 2: squats, t-bar row, clean and press, hanging straight leg raises.

Depending how I felt some dumbbell curls and tri extensions at the end.

Pre-covid, when cycling, once a week, again low reps, slow and heavy at a leisure centre gym….

Dumbbell bench press,dumbbell bent over row, dumbbell shoulder press, dumbbell hammer curls, leg press, leg extensions.

Currently WFH and no gym, a pathetic amount of slow full ROM press ups on knuckles, dips and pull ups through out the day twice a week. Random core work,flutter kicks, crunches, hanging leg raise (just knees up).

I stopped taking ibuprofen regularly for various sports related issues a year or two ago – hardly touch it now. Strong evidence linking chronic use to development of coronary artery disease.

Quite nuanced when you avoid the headlines

For anybody who is interested the PRECISION study probably best highlights current knowledge re NSAIDs and cardiac risk [as far as I’m aware – disclaimer I’m not a cardiologist]. I cut and paste a link to the abstract from British Medical Journal below. Its free online if you want to read the whole article.The article Speedster links to is fine but a bit out of date. The BHF pages are a good place to go for balanced views on research though.

Take home message for those allergic to Bayesian stats, posterior probabilities and odds ratios 🙂 all NSAIDs increase risk, risk compounded by predisposing genetic risk of coronary artery disease, duration of NSAID treatment, dose NSAID and type of NSAID.

On a personal level I found myself taking more and more of the stuff for various niggles, I’m in my 50’s and one side of my family has an impressive history of cardiovascular disease, so I decided that it was not for me.

BMJ 2017 May 9;357:j1909.
doi: 10.1136/bmj.j1909.
Risk of acute myocardial infarction with NSAIDs in real world use: bayesian meta-analysis of individual patient data
Michèle Bally 1 2 , Nandini Dendukuri 3 4 , Benjamin Rich 4 , Lyne Nadeau 4 , Arja Helin-Salmivaara 5 , Edeltraut Garbe 6 , James M Brophy 2 4 7
Affiliations

PMID: 28487435 PMCID: PMC5423546 DOI: 10.1136/bmj.j1909

Free PMC article
Abstract

Objective To characterise the determinants, time course, and risks of acute myocardial infarction associated with use of oral non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs).Design Systematic review followed by a one stage bayesian individual patient data meta-analysis.Data sources Studies from Canadian and European healthcare databases.Review methods Eligible studies were sourced from computerised drug prescription or medical databases, conducted in the general or an elderly population, documented acute myocardial infarction as specific outcome, studied selective cyclo-oxygenase-2 inhibitors (including rofecoxib) and traditional NSAIDs, compared risk of acute myocardial infarction in NSAID users with non-users, allowed for time dependent analyses, and minimised effects of confounding and misclassification bias. Exposure and outcomes Drug exposure was modelled as an indicator variable incorporating the specific NSAID, its recency, duration of use, and dose. The outcome measures were the summary adjusted odds ratios of first acute myocardial infarction after study entry for each category of NSAID use at index date (date of acute myocardial infarction for cases, matched date for controls) versus non-use in the preceding year and the posterior probability of acute myocardial infarction.Results A cohort of 446 763 individuals including 61 460 with acute myocardial infarction was acquired. Taking any dose of NSAIDs for one week, one month, or more than a month was associated with an increased risk of myocardial infarction. With use for one to seven days the probability of increased myocardial infarction risk (posterior probability of odds ratio >1.0) was 92% for celecoxib, 97% for ibuprofen, and 99% for diclofenac, naproxen, and rofecoxib. The corresponding odds ratios (95% credible intervals) were 1.24 (0.91 to 1.82) for celecoxib, 1.48 (1.00 to 2.26) for ibuprofen, 1.50 (1.06 to 2.04) for diclofenac, 1.53 (1.07 to 2.33) for naproxen, and 1.58 (1.07 to 2.17) for rofecoxib. Greater risk of myocardial infarction was documented for higher dose of NSAIDs. With use for longer than one month, risks did not appear to exceed those associated with shorter durations.Conclusions All NSAIDs, including naproxen, were found to be associated with an increased risk of acute myocardial infarction. Risk of myocardial infarction with celecoxib was comparable to that of traditional NSAIDS and was lower than for rofecoxib. Risk was greatest during the first month of NSAID use and with higher doses.

Published by the BMJ Publishing Group Limited. For permission to use (where not already granted under a licence) please go to http://group.bmj.com/group/rights-licensing/permissions.

I really came here to ask about training plans/ diaries. As I said in a previous post my traning diary has been located on Trainer Road for a while, but I found myself just doing one workout per week, and question whether i should continue to use it. I used the plan builder to define my TSS and often substituted different, mostly appropriate indoor and outdoor workouts (Zwift races, TT, group rides outdoors etc).

I have trained fairly consistently over past 2 years, and riden bikes for decades.

I appreciate the structure of a training plan, as my work is very busy, home work life generally blurred, so its quite important to know what I’m meant to be doing with respect to training.

If I cancel TR should I look into Training Peaks to set volume, intensity goals and monitor progress towards my main event this year – Dirty reiver in Sept (fingers crossed)?

Thought i’d share some of the things i learnt when i got into training and racing many years ago

I initially took a ramp test to find out how what sort of shape i was in and how i needed to improve

I found my base level of was awful. Basically i was burning far too many calories from carbs and not enough from fat. Which would explain why i used to bonk on longer rides. I was using just 43% of calories from fat at 127bpm (aerobic base point)

Now you’d expect that i’d have to do lots and lots of ‘base’ rides to improve that. As i was time crunched i was prescribed (by a coach) 2 things: Lots of 1 hour base rides on the turbo which i did twice a day (lunchtime and and hour after work) and i changed my diet to mainly follow the idave/4HB which meant more protein and fat and fewer carbs.

After about 6 months of this i got tested again and found that aerobic base point percentage of calories from fat (or more accurately fat utilisation) went from 43% to 84%. This didn’t include any ride over hour and half as i just didn’t have the time.What this demonstrated to me was that consistency is king and you don’t have to do endless 3-4 hours rides to improve your ‘base’ ( i also lost 6kg)

I also did lots and lots of intervals. 10x 1, 2×5, sweet spot, Vo2.

I made sure i stuck exactly the intervals as much as i could and stuck in the zones.

later on i included weight training as my core was really crap. Deadlifts were king here and improved my riding quite a lot

On weight training: I think it’s something that everyone should do from a health perspective, especially as we get older to help maintain muscle mass and bone density. From a cycling performance point of view I think the gains are probably marginal unless you’re a track sprinter but it’s still worthwhile to address imbalances and as “armour building”, since mountain biking is occasionally a contact sport.

If I cancel TR should I look into Training Peaks to set volume, intensity goals and monitor progress towards my main event this year – Dirty reiver in Sept (fingers crossed)?

You can get a fairly decent FTP builder plan from Training Peaks, through RGT. There’s then the virtual DR road on the platform too (just be aware that the software mimics gravel, so is harder to pedal than the tarmac). I posted a link up a few days ago. I’m using this with some extra Endurance zone outdoor longer rides, sometimes in place of a harder session.
If anyone is interested in joining virtual rides I can post up event codes which give free access to the Dirty Reiver road (or any of the RGT roads that are behind the pay wall)
TP plan link
RGTcycling link
Disclaimer – I have worked with RGT to get the DR road on the platform, but have no financial gain/interest/control in it.

Kind of relating to your post trickydisco, looks like you didn’t do any SS in there. I was thinking recently that I’ve probably misunderstood sweet spot, in that although it’s supposedly good training without building fatigue, if you’re short on time (I do about 7-10hrs a week) then fatigue isn’t really an issue and it might be better spent at either end?

I was doing about 10 – 12 hours a week back then. For the first 6 months was spent mainly on base fitness. This was obviously wasn’t as taxing so it allowed me to do intervals as well.

The thing that got me really fit was going on chain gangs, TT’s and racing. Really putting myself out of the comfort zone. Particularly crits where i was using them to improve fitness rather than getting points. Then again i was pretty shit at road racing. never really got anywhere. I think it can be demoralising for some coming into road racing as can take a few seasons to get your head around it, develop fitness and race craft. I remember my first 2/3/4 road race and couldn’t believe the pace when the car pulled away. absolutely mental!

Thanks @boxelder I have an RGT paid account to run club events on – had not looked at their training plans, looks like there is good synergy with TP.

Gave the DR a spin last weekend – was great – well done!!!

andeh> after about a year or so I got into more structured training which included more sweet spot at lunchtime. The ‘base’ rides dropped off as i didn’t need them for the type of racing i was doing

I was using just 43% of calories from fat at 127bpm (aerobic base point)

How was this tested – bloods?

Think it measures oxygen to carbon dioxide ratios

https://bwcycling.co.uk/fitness/

https://www.mudstacle.com/2015/01/vo2-max-assessment-measuring-oxygen-consumption-exercise.html

Wonder how accurate it is and to what extent it follows proportions of nutrients in your diet?
Anyone got any tips for intervals outside? I’m in a bad state towards the end of VO2 type intervals indoors and worry about crashing outdoors. Plus, for longer intervals do you look for a flattish quiet road (not easy in the Lakes) ? Any disadvantage of doing them uphill (except the easy bit is tricky to achieve without turning around and coasting back down – but then you’re not pedalling). Is HR/Power the key and cadence irrelevant?

Yes do them uphill, you’ll be going slower and can fall Ito a hedge with only minor damage if you need to. Don’t get all dizzy and sick on a busy road…

Re tricky disco’s post & sweet spot – not being a “lifetime cyclist” I have the same issue, and that is I don’t/didn’t have the mitochondrial base to support my output as a Vet racer. After I moved to a larger volume of coached winter base, things have improved across the spectrum. I don’t have a large volume of threshold work – about 6 weeks a year – but even so my climbing at threshold has improved massively.

As your power moves up so can your crossover from base/Z3 or fat to carb utilisation. Remembering that carbs deplete faster the higher into your carb burning zones you are, if you can move the starting point – end of Z2 and start of Z3 – all the way up through your zone’s you are less carb dependant at a higher power. Froome rides Z2 at something like 280w.

The thing with Sweetspot is it forces mitochondrial reproduction, VO2 efficiency an muscular endurance (roughly speaking) all at the same time albeit not at the same scale as a proper base program, hence the spoken economy of sweet spot if you are time crunched.

Re: Intervals outside – I often use Strava segments as they correlate with road layouts, natural features etc. Trouble is the geography ends up defining the types of intervals you can do.

I have also tried TR outdoor interval workouts and its a bit hit and miss – 350W going downhill or through a village etc, I dont think so.

Reps of a suitable bit of road or track can be constructed to give a more specific interval workout but you have to be motivated, and not simply want to ride around your local loop.

All compromises which is why I tend to do one hard interval session of the trainer each week.

I’ve a few hills of the appropriate length close to the house for outdoor intervals, certainly if I do them on an MTB. I’ve a good idea of what my HR and RPE should be for a given level of effort so do them based on that. I wouldn’t do VO2max intervals outdoors, much safer to do those on a trainer IMO.

You do have to accept that the recovery intervals might not be as short as they should be.

Rode my first – deliberately – slow zone 2 road ride today. It was so demoralising being passed by so many folk. It was the final straw when I was passed by a big guy on an eeb MTB. I couldn’t help chase he down, petty I know, I must do better.

Maybe keep my zone 2 rides to the turbo in the future.

Really struggled to keep my cadence to a specific speed. Always just used to ride on feel, plus years of riding singlespeed have taught me to just grind up hills which is something else I need to work on.

Tomorrow is the end of my first week – self made – training plan. I think I’ve got the balance about right between the efforts and recovery, over the next few weeks should tell though.

I’ve managed to persuade my wife to come ride this afty as a way to manage my Z2 ride today 😁. Though the issue is much will not likely reach Z2 😂

Just rewarming after a sea swim this morning first. Nice 8c spring day out, but the water is still down around 4-5c.

Hi longdog, just wondering about your open water swimming, do you wear a wet suit and gloves etc?

I’m interested in trying it but I’m a wuss with cold water.

@didnthurt no I swim skins with just swim cap and speedos. You either love it or hate it. I am swimming, not just having a dip, but not going for distance. I enjoy the clear water and wildlife in the sea, lochs here are too peaty.

I enjoy the buzz and it helps with muscle aches, but the rewarming afterwards in the winter can be amusing. 10mins or so after I’m out it hits me as the cold blood returns to the core; it can be more like dancing a jig than shivering. Fingers were fairly aching today.

My wife pretty much hates the cold and uses a swimming wetsuit (3mm iirc) with gloves and socks and another uses a neoprene vest thing just to protect her core and says it makes a massive difference.

I’d say if you go fancy it give it a go when the water warms up some. After a handful of times you don’t get the initial shock. I just walk in splashing my chest and face and go. If you want to use a wetsuit go for it; I can’t be doing with the hassle of them.

Anyway the wifely Z2 control worked, though hardly a steady Z2. Weather is forecast to be pants tomorrow,so 1.45hr zwift tempo session it’ll be. Next week is scheduled as my recovery week (2 on, 1 recovery) in my plan, but I think have another slight build and rest the next one as I’m not feeling the need yet.

I’m impressed with you just wearing Speedos. I’ll maybe try it later in the year.

Hmmm…. Looks like I might be having a rest week regardless 😢.

My patellar on my bionic knee has flared up. I aggravated it Thursday night in the last minutes of my SS//FTP intervals. Thought it had settled down, but after yesterdays pootle with my wife it’s pretty achy again. Another north sea ice bath has helped a bit, but cocodamol and sofa today I reckon 🤬

Any of you seen these folk?

https://www.highnorth.co.uk/articles

There’s a wealth of info.

They’re on YouTube too.

Afternoon. Any reaction to the Trainer Road announcement. Adaptive training.

link here: https://www.trainerroad.com/adaptive-training/

I’m currently nearing end of Build Me Up plan on zwift so need a new focus. This looks very interesting. As an older rider I find the training load can build up fatique a lot more than it used to. Hoping this new trainer road might adapt around that? Its in beta and i dont subscribe atm though.

Any thoughts.

I posted a link to the podcast announcing it on the TR workout thread. Again:

Without turning this into another TR thread I think it’s very interesting – I did my final year project in AI/ML – they say they’ve 100 million workouts/rides on their system so using it in some manner was bound to happen. Their subscription fee is somewhere around 10-20% of the cost of a personal coach (assuming you aren’t flash enough to be hiring an ex-pro rider) so if it’s more effective/accurate than that then the cost/benefit analysis works. I don’t think it will replace coaches, certainly not for those who are aiming at pro or semi-pro status, but for those of us doing things on the cheap it looks good.

What’s interesting from a pure training perspective is that while they still use FTP to set the levels of a workout the system learns your strengths and weaknesses across the different energy systems and training zones so in theory should “adjust” your FTP for each style of weakness. A bit like Sufferfest’s 4DP test but turned up to seven.

They’ve had a small set of non-employees trying it out since last July, they’ve just launched a closed beta (I’ve signed up for that) so I imagine it’ll be a few months before everything is fully up and running. They’ve said that the features will be released as and when they are ready – the extra filtering options when searching workouts is already public for example.