The legalisation of all drugs?

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  • The legalisation of all drugs?
  • jekkyl
    Member

    Should we consider the legalisation of all drugs? It might solve all violent drug gang crime in London (& everywhere) by immediately legalising all drugs. Educate everyone as to the dangers. All VAT proceeds from the sale of narcotics could go directly to the NHS. Loads of money will go where it’s needed, ordinary hard working folks wouldn’t have to interact with crims just for a bit of a smoke or a pill for that gig on Saturday and the criminal gangs stabbing each other over areas wouldn’t have custom any longer. Where’s the drawback?

    Premier Icon bikebouy
    Subscriber

    Erm..

    Yes..

    Sniff 🤪

    Premier Icon jimdubleyou
    Subscriber

    Where’s the drawback?

    What ever political party that implemented it would be vilified in the press, and would unlikely get power again owing to power of said press.

    Which is a shame, because I think it’s a great idea.

    Premier Icon scaled
    Subscriber

    Decriminalising is something that I think should be seriously considered, it’s had an impressive effect in Portugal.

    Unfortunately this is one of the arenas (like transport) where evidence based policy doesn’t really get a look in.

    Premier Icon mactheknife
    Subscriber

    I had this conversation with my uncle and grandad the other day. I am not a big smoker and i dont take pills or anything else but i am very pro legalisation. They on the other hand are so entrenched in their beliefs that ALL drugs are the devils work and wont even try and see the other side of the argument. So on that basis and the size of the voter pool who are of that generation and hence mostly that same opinion you can see why it wont happen unless very gradually. Its just not a vote winner at all.

    poah
    Member

    no because drugs like heroin and cocain are not safe and cause horrific effects.  Look at the effects on society of the current legal drugs

    koldun
    Member

    I think its a great idea. In a country where people are generally able to self control their intoxicant intake.

    That’s not so much my experience with the UK though 😉

    jekkyl
    Member

    Putting the cash directly into the NHS is how we’ll sell it to the old folks plus once they have a pill or two they’ll understand and condone the move.

    Premier Icon scaled
    Subscriber

    no because drugs like heroin and cocain are not safe and cause horrific effects

    You’re right, lock up the evil junkies and i’m sure they’ll come out clean 😉

    Premier Icon eddiebaby
    Subscriber

    Tobacco is legal. It generates revenue. I suspect the costs of treating tobacco addicts health problems makes a big cut into the tax. Smuggling shows that some consider the price too high.

    Alcohol generates revenue. Ask the NHS about the positive effects of alcohol. The police might also have a view on this.

    And then change those two drugs to a lot of what is currently banned. Got to say I’m not to certain that the well known British ability to show restraint of intake will shine in this situation. AKA “It’ll be like Benidorm on Acid”.

    Premier Icon andybrad
    Subscriber

    short answer, no

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    The current system of prohibition is clearly not working either for addicts, recreational drug users or the uninterested general public whose homes are being burgled and bikes nicked to buy a bag or two.

    Radical reform would have to be presented as a crime reduction thing to win mainstream support IMO.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    no because drugs like heroin and cocain are not safe and cause horrific effects.  Look at the effects on society of the current legal drugs

    As always the devil is in the detail. Heroin if used properly is extremely safe. It must be cos they use it widely in hospitals. Mrs Daz was given it when she was in labour. Cocaine is also very safe, as is alcohol and nicotiene. Of course you can kill yourself or cause harm to yourself with any of these, and some are easier to do that than others, but that doesn’t mean they should be banned.

    By any measure alcohol should be illegal if treated the same as other drugs, but it’s not because evidence has shown that prohibition doesn’t work. Drugs have been around for as long as we have. Mind altering substances have been used by humans for thousands of years, and it’s a uniquely modern and silly thing to try to prevent that ingrained behaviour. At the very basic level, why should I be prevented from eating a magic mushroom because some puritan religious type is afraid it might corrupt my morality? It’s stupid. Of course they should be legalised. All of them.

    Coyote
    Member

    Prohibition doesn’t work. It simply doesn’t.

    The slashing of police budgets and numbers mean that there simply isn’t the resource to enforce something that is unenforceable anyway. Legislation done properly would alleviate a lot of the problems caused by the supply being left in the hands of criminal gangs and the associated misery they bring.

    There is no perfect solution but burying our heads in the sand and refusing to examine all available options is certainly not the answer.

    Premier Icon eddiebaby
    Subscriber

    refusing to examine all available options is certainly not the answer.

    If it is studied and the answer is still NO! would you be prepared to stand by that decision?

    Premier Icon jimdubleyou
    Subscriber

    I does also bring up the question of what are all those criminal gangs going to do now drugs are not so lucrative?

    Premier Icon bikebouy
    Subscriber

    The slashing of police budgets and numbers mean that there simply isn’t the resource to enforce something that is unenforceable anyway.

    This element of the political spectrum always intrigued me.

    On one hand there is the perception to police the current drug trafficking and use base, on the other budget cuts and resources cut so low as to not be effective.

    So, in some way the current incarnation of this in term party are effectively saying “it’s not worth supporting the initiative to police the use or trafficking of drugs, and therefore cut funding”

    So the Conservative government actually support both use and trafficking of drugs.

    And who was Home Sec when all the recent budget reductions and resources were cut ?

    Why its this dear old lady..

    jekkyl
    Member

    take up a worthwile hobby? pottery perhaps or golf.

    philjunior
    Member

    Not only does prohibition not work, but the cost of the legal consequences in terms of future employment, further addiction in prison and violent criminal gangs owning the supply chain is far higher than the cost of the drug taking itself – harmful as any drug can be.

    Add to that the more dangerous substances developed to get around the prohibition of certain drugs, the difficulties of testing fun drugs for pharmaceutical purposes etc, it’s ridiculous, just legalise the lot of them.

    If you think prohibition works, give me one example of someone who currently doesn’t take drugs but would totally go to town on them if they became legal. It’s just a nonsense to assume that this would happen on a society level.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    If it is studied and the answer is still NO!

    It’s been studied to death and the answer is very clearly yes. It’s barely even worth debating. The fact is that the only reason some drugs are illegal is because of unjustified moral panic decades ago and the lobbying power of the legal drugs industry who are worried that people might smoke or drink less if other drugs were available.

    koldun
    Member

    I believe the current restrictions are due to concerns about the public’s ability to self medicate. Restricting the drugs does not address the real issues which would be peoples desire to take drugs and lack of self control with regards to the quantity. This issue is evident with the legal drugs like tobacco and alcohol too.

    Maybe they should study and address the ‘why’?

    Bimbler
    Member

    Of course.  It’s really no business of the government to decide what I put in my own body.  Liberty and all that,

    jekkyl
    Member

    that’s easy koldun.. people take drugs coz it’s fun.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    I does also bring up the question of what are all those criminal gangs going to do now drugs are not so lucrative?

    They are already moving to areas where returns are high for lower risk (shorter sentences if caught).

    People trafficking, slavery

    Fly tipping – big business now believe it or not.

    Yup. The only reason to make drugs illegal would be to reduce drug taking. Since prohibition clearly doesn’t reduce drug taking we might as well legalize it all, take the crime out of it and raise some tax revenue. Adopt the same kind of rules as we have on cigarettes – shocking images on the packaging etc.

    FWIW I’ve never taken any illegal drug, and don’t plan to if they were legalized.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    This issue is evident with the legal drugs like tobacco and alcohol too.

    And yet millions of people use these drugs regularly without killing or doing serious harm to themselves. Like I said, it’s unjustified moral panic. It should be very easy to educate the public in the safe use of drugs and treat the outlying cases of the tiny minority of people who can’t follow that advice.

    Premier Icon eddiebaby
    Subscriber

    Come at this another way.

    How would you stop the very real problems caused by alcohol abuse in this country?

    Educate everyone as to the dangers.

    That had worked so well for smoking, drinking, gambling, sugar etc.

    I would be in favour of decriminalisation of some drugs. You could even legalise and generate revenue from others but don’t pretend it is for public good. It’s all about the money…

    As many workplaces have a no alcohol or drug policies the short term impact of people acting like 15 year olds could be detrimental. Honestly as a country we may not be responsible enough to cope…

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    That had worked so well for smoking, drinking

    Like I said, millions smoke and drink with little ill effect. Smoking is also a great example of education working, fewer people smoke today than in the past and there’s been a steady downward trend. There is evidence that alcohol consumption is declining too.

    Of course there is money to be made, but that’s because the market exists rather than the other way round. If anyone can justify why alcohol should be legal and other drugs not, and that alcohol prohibition worked when it was tried in the past then I’ll consider changing my mind, but I doubt anyone will be able to.

    kerley
    Member

    no because drugs like heroin and cocain are not safe and cause horrific effects. Look at the effects on society of the current legal drugs

    But those effects are largely due to the drugs being illegal.  The question is how many extra heroin users would there be if you could buy it from a shop?

    People who want (or are addicted to) heroin get it anyway, they would just get it more safely.  The same with most other less addictive drugs, those who want them get them anyway but usually overpriced from a shady dealer network with no revenue generated for the country that has to deal with any  fallout.

    Premier Icon andybrad
    Subscriber

    we cant police it, we definatley cant provide the proper support for people who do.

    so with that we cant legalise it else we create a mass of people who need support and dont get it. plus the impact on the health services etc.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    I had this conversation with my uncle and grandad the other day.

    Odd thing is that, depending on your age, that chances are very high that your grandad was alive when drugs were legal and a good chance your uncle was as well.

    Should be legalised but with good regulation and, depending on the drug, varying levels of control and restricted supply eg licensed premises only.

    Premier Icon FuzzyWuzzy
    Subscriber

    I’m a bit torn on the issue. Clearly the war on drugs is failing and will never succeed, I also believe adults should be allowed to take more responsibility for what they want to do with their bodies. On the flip side, heroin is properly addictive (in the fact it alters brain chemistry) and other drugs can cause serious mental health issues (e.g. speed and psychosis) so it’s a step up from tobacco and even alcohol.

    I’d like to think the majority of the population could still be trusted to ration their own use of drugs so they didn’t become destructive to them but I’m also pretty sure a fair number of people would end up down the slippery road of heroin addiction. If you have no job, no real prospects and heroin is legal and affordable it would be very tempting just to try and stay high as much as you could – that won’t end well though.

    You could even legalise and generate revenue from others but don’t pretend it is for public good. It’s all about the money…

    True and personally if I’ve got the choice between a ton of cash going to legitimate businesses and the exchequer, or alternatively to violent criminals I know which I’d choose. In fact, that *would* be for the public good.

    If anyone can justify why alcohol should be legal and other drugs not

    If we were introducing it now it wouldn’t be…. still you can’t put the cat back in the bag… the argument that we already allow one harmful drug therefore we should allow them all does not follow.

    If as a country we accept that we have communal responsibility for each other through the NHS, I do not believe that it is unreasonable to not add potentially harmful activities to the mix.

    if we move down a road towards personal responsibility, medical top up insurance (which is what I can see on the horizon) people can’t complain so much about paying for drunks/drugged/fatties.

    like I said I think decriminalisation could be a good start rather than both feet into legalisation.

    fotorat
    Member

    Where I live we spend £1.5M per year on Druggies and Alco’s – I used to be the Local Drug and Alcohol Treatment Commissioner (2009 to 2013) and I when I paid for residential Rehab I would always make the druggy give up thier council house and pay all of the benfits to fund the Rehab!  I made the drug workers very cross and the patients cried alot – but i was not about to waste one more penny on these idiots than I had to.

    The subcontracted drug treatment provider could only ever manage to get users off crack or heroine and onto 40 fags a day – that counts as success all the way up to the Governments Statistic

    Premier Icon lowey
    Subscriber

    Wholehearted yes from me.

    Supply chain regulated and taxed, proceeds towards NHS. I would suggest that petty crime and burglary would plummet if they were legally available. Safer supplies, not cut with all manner of crap.

    There will always be a section of society with addiction issues, but we already have that with Alcohol and Tobacco.

    Just takes a government with some balls to propose it.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    so with that we cant legalise it else we create a mass of people who need support and dont get it. plus the impact on the health services etc.

    The answer to that is pretty simple. You tax it and spend the revenues on treatment and education. In fact if the production is state owned as it is in Uruguay then you also remove the problem of irresponsible marketing and targeting of vulnerable groups by profit-motivated corporations like we currently have with alcohol. Of course that assumes that the state can be trusted to govern it properly but with proper democratic controls and transparency I don’t think that’s a insurmountable problem.

    petty crime and burglary would plummet if they were legally available.

    Why? Because it would be so cheap an addict could have as much as they want without ever running out of money?

    if you ration the supply so someone can’t get as much as they want all they will do is turn to a reseller at a marked up price.

    They steal because they have spent all of their money on drugs and want/need more because they are addicted…

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