The law is the law….

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  • The law is the law….
  • Premier Icon oldnpastit
    Subscriber

    “The law is the law, whether you are talking about pedestrians, cyclists or motorists”.

    http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Hundreds-of-cyclists-fined-in-police-blitz-15032013.htm

    “The fines were issued as part of Operation Pedalo, which saw undercover officers used for the first time in the city to target law-breaking cyclists”

    Am I wrong to feel a bit cheesed off that my taxes are being spent in such a frivolous fashion?

    If there are so few crimes to deal with that all that’s left is a few kids jumping red lights, then perhaps we could get rid of a few police officers and spend the extra cash on teachers and cycle lanes?

    stumpy01
    Member

    What do you mean frivolous fashion? Have you any experience of the cyclists in Cambridge?

    Good on them, I say. For their own safety & the safety of others the moron cyclists in places such as Cambridge should be targeted.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    Am I wrong to feel a bit cheesed off that my taxes are being spent in such a frivolous fashion?

    Given they appear to have been issuing fines, then I should think more money has been taken than it cost, so I wouldn’t worry too much about your taxes.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    I’m fine with it. Those cyclists who ride like dicks are the ones getting us a bad name.

    Dales_rider
    Member

    Funny thing to do is stand a t a set of busy city centre traffic lights and count the car drivers jumping the lights, no seat belt on and using their mobile phone. I’d guess thats OK pick on the ones that pose the most danger.

    aphex_2k
    Member

    Operation Pedo?

    smiff
    Member

    nah, pedalo

    so many good pics on GIS.

    these guys look serious

    yeah.. why are you complaining unless you ride like a dick? will they catch some Strava users..

    geetee1972
    Member

    It’s not just that they give us a bad name. They create resentment which breeds a dangerous attitude towards other cyclists. Every time I see a cyclist bust a red light I feel the roads get slightly more dangerous.

    Premier Icon unklehomered
    Subscriber

    I’m fine with it. Those cyclists who ride like dicks are the ones getting us a bad name.

    This, and well punned sir!
    And also this.

    It’s not just that they give us a bad name. They create resentment which breeds a dangerous attitude towards other cyclists. Every time I see a cyclist bust a red light I feel the roads get slightly more dangerous.

    Good. I hope they also took the time to do some motorists sitting in ASLs at the same time. I’m all in favour of this.

    lazybike
    Member

    S’all em posh kids innit…..

    nealglover
    Member

    Am I wrong to feel a bit cheesed off that my taxes are being spent in such a frivolous fashion?

    Yes.

    butcher
    Member

    Whilst the law may be the law, and breaking it may cause resentment (just like when people break speed limits?), it needs to be remembered that most of these laws were applied to control powerful, motorized traffic, which is worlds apart from a simple bicycle.

    Premier Icon Cheezpleez
    Subscriber

    My local force have decided it’s a sensible use of our money to equip several bobbies with off-road motorbikes so they can blat about in the woods. Presumably just in case a squirrel steals some nuts off its neighbour.

    Premier Icon luffy105
    Subscriber

    Might be adding petrol to the fire here but I was in Cambridge town centre just before Christmas and was walking around with some time to kill. I found there were a large number of very inconsiderate cyclists who were hooning around with no regard for the pedestrians. I’m all for charging about on bikes but why not go out into the countryside and do it instead of doing it in busy town centres.

    I for one was pretty pissed off with the cyclists after an hour or so and I’m very pro cycling in towns and cities as a rule. I’ve certainly never felt as threatened by bikes in London nor Amsterdam when walking about. Good on the police as long as they are going for the real culprits. IMHO there are quite a number there that deserve a ticking off.

    Premier Icon unklehomered
    Subscriber

    @butcher. I do agree but two things, One a cycle meandering (often they do, wildly haphazardly so) through a red into a junction could cause someone in a big ton of metal to steer suddenly, out of a desire not to kill a cyclist, and result in worse injuries etc. Even if they didn’t its gonna **** them up a bit through not fault of their own. Second we should campaign for things like bike filters, bike turn left on Red laws etc. Include the flexibility of the harmless simple bicycle in our traffic law, which it isn’t really much at the moment.

    TurnerGuy
    Member

    it needs to be remembered that most of these laws were applied to control powerful, motorized traffic, which is worlds apart from a simple bicycle.

    there is a small point here in that the phasing on traffic lights is often completely wrong for cyclists. I can get hit by all four sets of closely spaced lights on one short stretch of my journey, whereas a car will not.

    butcher
    Member

    Totally agree unklehomered. I can accept there’s problems created by cyclists. But I think perhaps many of these problems exist because the law has been designed around motor vehicles. The infrastructure for cyclists is lacking, and not just in a physical sense. Thus cyclists apply their own rules and logic because they don’t directly fit in anywhere.

    It’s a murky world of contradiction for a cyclist. Part pedestrian, part vehicle.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    Yes and no. Cyclists can’t ride through red lights. There are clear reasons why. If there are no cars/people then you may deem it safe to jump that light. It would be just as safe to do it in a car. There’s no reason to do it on a bike any more than in a car. I would say there are very few car laws that are categorically not applicable to bikes.

    They’ve been fining RLJers in London for a while, it’s great to see the retards remonstrating with the police sat 10 feet after the lights, in a marked car, as they bimble through the 20 law abiding cyclists and through the red lights!

    headfirst
    Member

    346 offenders over 12 days is just under 30 a day, assuming they did 8 hour days that’s about 1 naughty cyclist every 15 minutes. How many cyclists would be passing these “hotspots” in 15 minutes? In Cambridge I’d guess a fair few.
    So in conclusion the vast majority of cyclists stick to the rules.

    It’s not just that they give us a bad name. They create resentment which breeds a dangerous attitude towards other cyclists. Every time I see a cyclist bust a red light I feel the roads get slightly more dangerous.

    What absolute tosh GeeTee. The only resentment comes from being shut up in a little metal box travelling more slowly than someone on a bike. It has nothing to do with the ‘law being broken’ or those people would be raging at all the motorists who routinely break the law. Carlton Reid puts it very well here

    this is just an extension of ‘we won’t build any cycle facilities until cyclists start behaving’. No more roads until motorists obey speed limits?

    I see motorists jump red lights every single journey in London – It’s actually rare not to see someone accelerate at amber and there are junctions where I see 3 or 4 cars blatantly jump red at every phase. Sometimes dangerously late – long enough that the other traffic has a green light. As a cyclist you see it much more as you’re always at the front of the traffic queue in the other direction. As a motorist you wouldn’t notice it. On my 45 minute commute I usually count over a dozen drivers blatantly using handheld mobile phones, a number obviously texting. Speed limits are routinely broken, bike boxes and cycle lanes not observed.

    As far as I can see the law is doing nothing to protect me as a cyclist and I will do whatever I feel I need to do to keep myself safe until it does. Most of the time I’m a good citizen but occasionally I will cycle on the pavement and, if the road is clear, I will sometimes jump a red light to get away from the drag race that’s about to start.

    When I’m at my most militant I take the view that until the traffic laws are enforce to protect me I will treat them with contempt. “Cyclists refuse to obey red lights until speed limits are enforced” doesn’t seem an unreasonable position to take to me.

    The met put more effort into dealing with cycling offences than it did motoring last year. Thats not a harm reduction strategy, that’s pandering to the daily mail.

    Premier Icon unklehomered
    Subscriber

    I can get hit by all four sets of closely spaced lights on one short stretch of my journey, whereas a car will not.

    I’ve encountered this, also insufficient timings to clear the junction before other traffic starts moving – on one commute I would stop if I thought the light had been green too long as I knew traffic coming out of the side road tended to 30 as a minimum, and didn’t ever look.

    Also, lights which are triggered by the presence of a car. (I once for a chuckle – i had been to the pool, was knackered, and wanted a bit of a breather before cycling home, sat on the sensor with many cars behind me, before eventually calling out – “Do we all agree that this one time its OK for me to run this light?”

    Unanimous it was.

    @butcher It is, and our near misses feel all the closer for our vulnerability. But I think give and take in some way is the way forward, the annoying thing is the ‘roll right through a moving junction’ types I used to see were not what I would describe as a Cyclist, rather, some bloke, and a [usually horribly squeaking barely working] bike. Also, we need a better campaigning body, with cycling numbers on the up we may get it in the CTC – who are I think our best hope.

    Premier Icon unklehomered
    Subscriber

    So in conclusion the vast majority of cyclists stick to the rules.

    Or once a copper is writing a ticket and giving a stern ticking off, he can’t then stop another cyclist until he’s done.

    Premier Icon Mr Agreeable
    Subscriber

    Are any of the pro crowd not slightly disturbed that scarce policing resources are being used to clamp down on crimes which injure or kill about the same number of people each year as wayward golf balls?

    I expect Cambridge Police’s next move will be reassigning the murder squad to investigate illegal photocopying.

    Nice edit to remove advocating keying cars there, Simon.

    Premier Icon Flaperon
    Subscriber

    346 offenders over 12 days is just under 30 a day, assuming they did 8 hour days that’s about 1 naughty cyclist every 15 minutes. How many cyclists would be passing these “hotspots” in 15 minutes? In Cambridge I’d guess a fair few.
    So in conclusion the vast majority of cyclists stick to the rules

    Or, of course, it takes about 15 minutes to issue the fine and a bollocking, and they’re actually working non-stop. I applaud them, I hate the attitude of cyclists in Cambridge.

    Not really an issue in my neck of the woods (the only people on bikes have likely stolen them) but if we’re going for red light jumpers I’d love to see more cameras on red lights. Especially the combined ones, which nick people for speeding through after it’s gone red.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    What absolute tosh GeeTee. The only resentment comes from being shut up in a little metal box travelling more slowly than someone on a bike. It has nothing to do with the ‘law being broken’ or those people would be raging at all the motorists who routinely break the law. Carlton Reid puts it very well here

    Seriously? How short sighted of you. It’s hypocritical, but it is the law breaking cyclists that annoy motorists most.

    I dunno where in London you’re riding either, on my commute I rarely see traffic manage 20mph, let alone break the speed limit. Motorbikes, pedestrians and other cyclists are the biggest menace. Going through a red light to get ‘ahead of the drag race’ is often pretty stupid, as the RLJing car is likely to be coming through at the last minute to wipe you out!

    bencooper
    Member

    The police admitted in a parliamentary enquiry that they don’t bother enforcing 20mph speed limits.

    The police’s job is not to reduce crime, it’s to reduce the perception of crime. To that end, targeting pesky cyclists makes sense as to the Daily Mail crowd. Because everyone knows we’re the real danger on the roads, not hard-working car drivers.

    Some Perspective Also

    2% of fatalities caused by ignoring red lights or stop signs, 75% of casualties of adult cyclists caused by DRIVERS. 🙁

    I can’t find any data on fatalities caused by cyclists of other road users or pedestrians..

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    Police in enforcing the law shocka!

    TBH having walked in Cambridge town centre I’m all in favour of a bit of a crack down on bikes there…

    The rozzers do similar operations targeting motorists, “Equality” means being subject to full application of the law, people on bikes (I’ll not call them cyclists) are not exempt.

    stumpy01
    Member

    It’s not just jumping red lights.
    When I lived in Cambridge I used to regularly see cyclists riding the wrong way down one way streets, riding in busy pedestrian areas at unsuitable speeds, cycling on the road at night in the wrong direction, people cycling the wrong way round roundabouts to save having to go all the way round them etc….

    I’ve never been to any other city and seen such bad cycling. It could of course be due to the quantity of cyclists there, so it appears worse than anywhere else. Perhaps on a per cyclist ratio it isn’t so bad…

    Dales_rider
    Member

    Very interesting story from my village

    Last week

    After many letters from various people across the world of cycling pointing out the stupidity of the article and the damage caused by a typical “Daily Mail” reader.

    This weeks article

    Any one notice the back pedaling ? I’m still waiting for a reply to this letter I sent to the Police Commissioner

    “Dear Ms Mulligan
    As an Embsay resident I am absolutely astounded by the comments made by, and reported in the Craven Herald, which appear to have been made by serving members of the police force. Hopefully evidence of the incidents will be made available as at the moment it just appears to be hearsay from a councillor.
    Are they so ignorant of the damage it can do to a small rural economy when it is reported nationally in papers as far away as the south coast. Are they aware of the economic impact they may have already caused in advance of a world sporting event which will pass through our region. The anti cycling impression it gives and the effect it could have from motorists of a like mind to the Councillor are not tolerable.

    http://road.cc/content/news/77860-tour-yorkshire%E2%80%A6%C2%A0not-everyones-happy-about-expected-influx-cyclists

    http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/blogs/all_about_the_bike/10277131.Planning_to_cycle_next_year_s_TDF_prologue__You_may_fall_foul_of_the_local_council___/
    Are just two examples. Your point of view would be welcome.”

    Seems like we are a group that are targeted by certain people, your thoughts ?

    I wonder how many pedestrians are killed by cyclists in Cambridge per year?

    Premier Icon Mr Agreeable
    Subscriber

    Last time I was in Cambridge I saw a load of posh tossers acting irresponsibly in punts. When are the police going to start cracking down on that, eh?

    stumpy01
    Member

    Is all Police activity aimed at stopping people being killed?

    Pedestrians being killed isn’t the be all & end all of stopping cyclists behaving like morons.
    Perhaps some of it is actually stopping the moronic cyclists being injured/killed themselves…

    wrecker
    Member

    Geetee had it spot on.

    When I’m at my most militant I take the view that until the traffic laws are enforce to protect me I will treat them with contempt. “Cyclists refuse to obey red lights until speed limits are enforced” doesn’t seem an unreasonable position to take to me.

    If that doesn’t seem unreasonable to you, then you seriously need to realign your outlook.

    Well according to a government study 75% of adult cyclist deaths are caused by motorists, so I suggest that is where the crackdown should occur..

    Premier Icon unklehomered
    Subscriber

    Your bog standard burglar doesn’t kill anyone, should he not be a priority for the police then by that logic?

    boxbuster
    Member

    I live in Cambridge, there are loads of reckless cyclists and even as someone who cycles everyday and doesn’t really get stressed they often manage to wind me up.
    Two weeks ago I saw a young bloke on a bike knock over a Chinese student on Hills road bridge, he got up quick as a flash and cycled off as quick as he could and left the girl to get picked up off the floor by her friends, who he also nearly knocked over.
    When I was 17 a drunk Russian bloke cycled into the side of my car in Cambridge while I was sitting waiting at a red light!
    I also spend a fair bit of time in Amsterdam, they are much safer cyclists although that could be partly attributed to the fact that the roads out there are built with cyclists in mind.

    Premier Icon Mr Agreeable
    Subscriber

    Well according to a government study 75% of adult cyclist deaths are caused by motorists, so I suggest that is where the crackdown should occur..

    This.

    And before anyone asks how many of the cyclists were doing something stupid, it’s a tiny proportion – about 6% in London.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2012/oct/04/boris-johnson-cycling-accident-statistics-wrong

    Nice edit to remove advocating keying cars there, Simon

    GeeTee seems to suggest that motorists think it’s OK to put cyclists lives at risk because some of them break the law in way that they find irritating (the stats show it’s not actually dangerous, either to themselves* or to others). I merely wondered why a motorist who flouts the law should receive any protection from it but didn’t express it very well. Car owners seem to get very protective of their cars – I’ve been screamed at – ‘don’t you dare touch my f&&&ing car’ – when I’ve slapped a panel of a car that’s been about to sideswipe me.

    Police in enforcing the law shocka!

    The problem is that they don’t, and don’t do so to address danger. As already mentioned – cyclists are not killing or injuring yet Met Police confirm 24% of their road traffic enforcement is bikes https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxDRLBeyxwPrSDA4QkR4dGtxRDg/edit?usp=sharing … (item 3) despite bikes being 4-5% of all traffic. No enforcement of 20mph limits.

    on my commute I rarely see traffic manage 20mph, let alone break the speed limit.

    You don’t think theres any speeding in London? So the ‘scores’ i see on those speed indicators (the useless ones with the smily face) and cars braking for speed cameras are just an illusion. Speed check on my residential speed showed an average speed of 28mph. Assuming thats roughly a bell curve there are a hell of a lot of vehicles exceeding 30 on a road where they shouldn’t be exceeding 20.

    Motorbikes, pedestrians and other cyclists are the biggest menace.

    Of course they are. The cars, trucks and buses are like marshmallow.

    Going through a red light to get ‘ahead of the drag race’ is often pretty stupid,

    I’m pretty confidant I can cross the road safely on a bike by confirming that nothing is coming, much as I can and do when I’m on foot.

    *and, on a forum for people who willingly partake in a dangerous activity we shouldn’t be passing judgement on others who merely put themselves in danger. If you want to draft a lorry it might appear highly foolish but so would many of the trails we ride to non cyclists

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