The Helmet debate

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  • The Helmet debate
  • I was putting some pots away in the kitchen the other day. I left the door open on the cupboard, turned round and I clattered straight into it with my head. Needed 3 stitches. Wish I’d been wearing my bike helmet!

    Glad you are okay, but please nooooooooooooooooooo! Really just leave it, there is no argument to win this, it just continues the murky stew of fiery arse gravy that is this debate.

    IanMunro
    Member

    Neither of us were being silly, we were just on the same trail in opposite directions.

    I’m slightly curious that this appears to have been shelved as a no fault accident. Presumably one or both of you were being a bit silly and riding at a speed that they couldn’t safely stop. Or have I misread the situation?

    I kept seeing riders at FOD without lids, not just on the green either!

    fizzicist
    Member

    Just been pootling along a nice open bit of flat doubletrack. The sort of trail where you often see people riding sans-lid.

    I am currently held together with gauze and surgical tape, bruised to shit and generally a bit spaced out having come round a blind corner and had a head on crash with another mountain biker. Neither of us were being silly, we were just on the same trail in opposite directions.

    Fortunately, we were both wearing helmets. As we managed to headbutt each other on the way through, it’s one of those where you can pick yourself up, brush the muck off and ride on.

    Had I not been wearing a helmet, I would no doubt be in an air ambulance by now. Thats the second ‘thank God I was wearing a helmet’ moment this year.

    It could be you next time….

    baznav73
    Member

    Ianmunro you sound like an ambulance chasing lawer i ride at speeds that i can’t stop safely from all the time it’s called having fun on my mountain bike and when doing so i sometimes have ACCIDENTS, and i’m glad to be part of a community where the majority of paticipants act in this way of not instantly throwing blame around.
    If i think back to all the times i’ve riden at swinley on the twisty singletrack in summer when the ferns are high i can’t see round any corner but i still ride as fast as i dare and god forbid i have fun and sometimes when having said fun i have an ACCIDENT.

    yunki
    Member

    as long as you don’t have an ACCIDENT on open access land with say, a small child or an elderly person, where your ACCIDENT could very easily become a lot more SERIOUS, ey Baz?

    dabble
    Member

    Or have I misread the situation post?

    a bit spaced out having come round a blind corner

    😉

    IanMunro
    Member

    Baz, all ACCIDENT means is lack of intent. It doesn’t absolve you of responsibility or fault.

    Premier Icon psling
    Subscriber

    I was owning the singletrack when a branch caught the vent in my helmet. Took me off the back of the bike and very nearly broke my neck. If I hadn’t been wearing a helmet I’d have been killed it wouldn’t have happened…

    Went to Llandegla on Saturday and two of the riders I was with both had big offs on different laps, not doing mental jumps but just riding very quick on some technical stuff, race pace. Both smashed their helmets, I can defo say if they had not worn them the car would have had a few spare places on the way home. 😥

    Blimey, that’s it. The helmet debate is finally over. We have the definitive anecdote.

    MrSalmon
    Member

    Went to Llandegla on Saturday and two of the riders I was with both had big offs on different laps, not doing mental jumps but just riding very quick on some technical stuff, race pace.

    But most people would wear a lid for that anyway wouldn’t they? So…

    Premier Icon unklehomered
    Subscriber

    We have the definitive anecdote.

    we have two, and they contradict…

    Junkyard
    Member

    when a branch caught the vent in my helmet. Took me off the back of the bike and very nearly broke my neck. If I hadn’t been wearing a helmet I’d have been killed it wouldn’t have happened…

    so it did all this without actually hitting your head through the vent as well?

    A rather obvious troll and IMHO [ no doubt denied] entirely made up

    Premier Icon psling
    Subscriber

    [denial]A true story actually, it really did happen to me though maybe exagerated for effect[/denial]. Personally, I always wear a hemet MTBing off-road though not always on cycle trails or the road. Not being an expert or indeed a see-er of the future I cannot categorically confirm that death would have been certain in many of the self-proclaimed outcomes of incidents involving the non-wearing of a helmet 😈

    Mark N
    Member

    Wearing a helmet is a no brainer IMO but other have differing views, I may not agree with them but it is their head. A friend recently failed to duck low enough to get under a fallen tree and split his helmet open. Not sure he would have cleared the tree had he not been wearing the helmet but both he and I were very glad he was. He did not fall off his bike either.

    nicko74
    Member

    TJ to the forum please, TJ…. oh, what? Seriously?

    Well that’s taken all the fun out of it…

    boxfish
    Member

    murky stew of fiery arse gravy

    Sounds like the dhansak I had last night.

    mrmo
    Member

    come round a blind corner and had a head on crash with another mountain biker.

    So you were riding dangerously on a public trail? you came round a blind bend and were unable to stop?

    Be grateful you didn’t crash into a horse and find yourself trampled under a tonne of horse meat.

    As for the helmet, well if you had been riding sensibly and able to stop in the distance you could see then it would be irrelevant wouldn’t it?

    so it did all this without actually hitting your head through the vent as well?
    A rather obvious troll and IMHO [ no doubt denied] entirely made up

    best i have seen is someone wearing a helmet light the branch hooked between the helmet and the light. They went off the back of the bike surprisingly quickly.

    mrmo
    Member

    Ianmunro you sound like an ambulance chasing lawer i ride at speeds that i can’t stop safely from all the time it’s called having fun on my mountain bike and when doing so i sometimes have ACCIDENTS, and i’m glad to be part of a community where the majority of paticipants act in this way of not instantly throwing blame around.
    If i think back to all the times i’ve riden at swinley on the twisty singletrack in summer when the ferns are high i can’t see round any corner but i still ride as fast as i dare and god forbid i have fun and sometimes when having said fun i have an ACCIDENT.

    If you run over someones dog, feel free to say i was just having fun, they will be fine about it.
    If you happen to cause a horse to throw its rider feel free to say i was just having fun,….
    Now grow up and realise that there are people out there who don’t want to be involved in your “fun”

    cynic-al
    Member

    Agree with the above. Sounds like 50/50 fault which conveniently for the OP means he is effectively blameless for the accident as a whole but 50% responsible for his own injuries.

    No way can he know the extent of his injuries without the helmet.

    His brain is of course invaluable 😛

    Barry Plank wrote:

    If i think back to all the times i’ve riden at swinley on the twisty singletrack in summer when the ferns are high i can’t see round any corner but i still ride as fast as i dare and god forbid i have fun and sometimes when having said fun i have an ACCIDENT.

    If you could let me know your Swinley riding schedule so that I know when to avoid it like the plague, that would be great, thanks.

    You know, I’ve never been impressed with the intelligence of anyone whose abbreviation of their name ends in a “z”…

    Trimix
    Member

    FFS stop going on about it. Its not a debate becaues you can choose to wear one or not.

    I wouldn’t chuck my leg over to coin a phrase without wearing one.

    Each to their own of course , but why wouldn’t you.

    Cost next to nowt to buy, don’t restrict vision, add marginally to a hot bounce I suppose and could save the nurse feeding you baby food for the rest of your natural if it all goes the way of the pair.

    Kind of like riding without gloves for me, just doesn’t feel right……..next

    mrmo
    Member

    Cost next to nowt to buy, don’t restrict vision, add marginally to a hot bounce I suppose and could save the nurse feeding you baby food for the rest of your natural if it all goes the way of the pair.

    first i usually wear a helmet riding. Habit more than anything else.
    second the human race has been falling out of trees, walking into cupboards, tripping down stairs for millenia, and it is still here, the human head isn’t as easily damaged as some seem to think.
    Third, have you actually bothered to read what the test standard is? and compared it to the average riding situation?

    montylikesbeer wrote:

    but why wouldn’t you

    Freedom of choice? Because I’m an adult who is perfectly capable of making a reasoned risk assessment of what I’m about to undertake and can decide whether or not I feel what I’m about to do warrants the wearing of protective headgear?

    Do you berate those who walk on icy paths in winter for not wearing a helmet? They’re far more likely to fall and hit their head than I am whilst riding my bike.

    fourbanger
    Member

    Do you berate those who walk on icy paths in winter for not wearing a helmet? They’re far more likely to fall and hit their head than I am whilst riding my bike.

    Don’t you go and try and bring logic into this!

    Where’s TJ?

    As I said in my post , each to their own, I just get why you wouldn’t.

    By the way I don’t berate anyone , nor did my post suggest I do.

    I have mates who climb without a bounce protector , climb unprotected (I don’t climb anymore cos I’m far too fat) , if I were to climb it would be protected and with a helmet, it just feels right to me.

    I would be interested to find out reasons other than personal choice why they would not wear one ( not trolling by the way)

    fizzicist
    Member

    Tbh the main reason I posted this was a bit of a spleen vent. I was riding very conservatively, I remember braking for the corner in question as I’m always wary of it. Completely blind, with a shirt climb on the other side, usually take a wide entry to get a better sight line. Turned in and it went ‘ohfuckthere’saBANG!’ next thing I’m on the floor.

    I have no idea how quick the other guy was going, didn’t have long enough to see, but he’s in a better state.

    Reason for the spleen vent? 300 yards later there’s a bloke out with 2 kids, aged about 7 and 10. They’re lidded up, he isn’t. It’s the easy going route…what could possibly happen?

    I can’t imagine what it would feel like for someone to have to explain to my kids that I’m a vegetable because I had too big an ego to wear a lid.

    On the plus side, the boy is behaving immaculately as I keep threatening to touch him with my scabs…

    excitable1
    Member

    Where’s TJ?

    Fell off his bike, smashed his head in…. No helmet you see !

    excitable1
    Member

    TJ to the forum please, TJ…. oh, what? Seriously?

    … Seriously, where is he ?

    Reason for the spleen vent? 300 yards later there’s a bloke out with 2 kids, aged about 7 and 10. They’re lidded up, he isn’t. It’s the easy going route…what could possibly happen?

    Well you could possibly have killed him if it was him coming around the corner rather than that other chap. Lucky escape.

    rudebwoy
    Member

    in the late 1970’s there used to be an old scotsman that drank in the London bar in Durban, a dive of a place, he used to wear an open face helmet at all times……..

    redthunder
    Member

    Did you hurt your neck ???? 😉

    TJ to the forum please, TJ…. oh, what? Seriously?
    … Seriously, where is he ?

    Apparently he’s been banned from the forum for 10 years. Seems a bit harsh to me.

    Mark N
    Member

    TJ to the forum please, TJ…. oh, what? Seriously?
    … Seriously, where is he ?

    I had read that he had been banned but not sure for what or how long.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    Banned for life for, well, being TJ. Wether you think this is a good or bad thing is another thread.

    Greg Barton wrote:

    Reason for the spleen vent? 300 yards later there’s a bloke out with 2 kids, aged about 7 and 10. They’re lidded up, he isn’t. It’s the easy going route…what could possibly happen?

    I can’t imagine what it would feel like for someone to have to explain to my kids that I’m a vegetable because I had too big an ego to wear a lid.
    Nothing like a bit of subjective hyperbole is there? Maybe he asked the kids whether they wanted to wear helmets and they said yes, even though he wasn’t?

    fizzicist
    Member

    Well you could possibly have killed him if it was him coming around the corner rather than that other chap. Lucky escape.

    As could you (or anyone else) in a similar situation. Hence my belief in using a helmet at all times on a bike.

    Basic risk assessment – by getting on a two wheeled device that relies on movement for stability, you are increasing the likelihood of falling over. So mitigate the risk of serious consequences.

    That said, James May is on about natural selection on BBC2 at the moment. For this very reason, I don’t believe helmets should be compulsory….

    scbutcher
    Member

    Risk assessment’s for getting on a two wheeled bike ?

    Mitigating risk ?

    Do you wear arm bands in the bath, have all your forks in the cutlery drawer got corks on the dangerous end.

    dekadanse
    Member

    I think montylikesbeer sums up the case for – ‘well why wouldn’t you?’ – and idiotdogbrain summarises the case against – ‘freedom of choice’ and ‘I’m a rational adult’………….sorry idb, your chosen name kind of speaks for itself, because in a complex world where you are not alone, and where not only your rational choices may have flaws, you do indeed stand the chance of becoming idiotdogbraininjured.

    I have to say prattling on about one’s civil right to do something daft does seem to me to be unevolved behaviour. We are not alone, and what we do does have consequences, especially in a small island of nearly 70m people. So – adapt! Be reasonable in a world where if it can happen, it sooner or later will happen. Again to quote the great sage montylb – ‘why wouldn’t you?’

    Just because you don’t appear to be able to ride a bicycle without falling off, don’t tar the rest of us with the brush of ineptitude…

    FWIW, I wear a helmet when I deem it necessary, but will happily ride without one when I feel it’s not. Having spent my youth riding BMXs and skateboards without a helmet, mostly in concrete urban environments, I think I’m up to the job of gently riding a bicycle round the local woods without much fear of serious injury. YMMV, of course…

Viewing 45 posts - 1 through 45 (of 52 total)

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