• This topic has 2,945 replies, 249 voices, and was last updated 3 weeks ago by olddog.
Viewing 40 posts - 2,761 through 2,800 (of 2,946 total)
  • The Electric Car Thread
  • thepodge
    Free Member

    Twitter keeps trying to sell me a Wuling Hongguang Mini EV. I actually quite like it & for 90% of our yearly trips it’d be fine. Just hire a van for the other 10%

    eyestwice
    Full Member

    I’m now saving for an EV.

    ta11pau1
    Full Member

    I’m surprised California have only just matched the UK in terms of non EV new sales ban, they’re typically very tough on car emissions.

    New Model 3 Long range, 293 miles at mostly 70mph with 10% battery still left.

    Puts into perspective just how rubbish some EV’s ranges are 🙁

    whatgoesup
    Full Member

    What’s the consensus on granny charger (3 pin) chargers ?

    I’ve got a mid term rental EV coming next week whilst waiting for my actual company car to be supplied (circa a year away) and would like to make an occasional home charge – most likely on a Saturday night where I don’t have access to my usual workplaces very cheap 7kW charger but will need to add some charge every other weekend (I have a total 250 miles work of driving to do every other weekend to pick kids up and drop them off etc and also likely to want to go somewhere in the middle too – likely outside of the cars range). I guess such a cable come in useful for overnight stays elsewhere too maybe.

    I don’t plan on having a home charger installed for at least 9-12 months (long story).

    The e-tron that’s coming apparently doesn’t come with a 3 pin cable, so I would have to buy one – looks like about £200 (I will work out whether that pays for itself in saved public charging / convenience over the year or so I’ll have this car), but are the safety concerns I’ve heard about real, or is this just something touted by the charge point companies ?

    Edukator
    Free Member

    You’ll have to elaborate on the safety concerns you’re worried about for detailed answers.

    If you have a suitably rated breaker in your electric box, a suitably rated cable to the socket and a suitably rated 3-pin socket, there’s not a lot to worry about. If you’re really worried about home electrical safety get rid of the clothes drier, oven, hob, toaster and even the fridge… before the electric car. The charger blocks check the earth and won’t work if your house electrics are poorly earthed.

    If you’re worried about spontanous combustion fire risk then don’t worry as much as an ICE car as fires are less common. However, they are apparently harder to put out.

    I do most of my charging using the 3.2kW power block that came with a 52kWh Zoé. I rarely get home under 20% and stop charging at 90% so 12h is enough. The e-tron has a bigger battery so would take a bit longer.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    What safety concerns?

    I’ve used my granny charger a few times. Just like plugging anything else in to charge. The only issue is that I’m not sure mine is waterproof, and the cable on the car side isn’t very long. This means leaving the charger itself on the ground where you are charging it which means a bucket over the top or something if it’s going to be wet. Others might have longer cables.

    You reduce the current on mine, if you are for example charging from a more limited supply e.g. a camp site.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    Puts into perspective just how rubbish some EV’s ranges are

    I make that 4.1 miles/kWh. Worse than my car.

    ta11pau1
    Full Member

    I make that 4.1 miles/kWh. Worse than my car.

    Is that while doing normal motorway speeds?

    Also I get 4.46 miles/kWh.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    Well since the Tesla was tested at 70mph I also am citing 70mph driving yes. I get between 4.5 and 4.7 miles/kWh at 70mph on the motorway, the trips I’ve done have been mid to high teens celcius.

    Point I am making is that whilst Tesla seem to be great at whipping up Apple style adulation they are efficient cars, but not incredibly so and not the most efficient thing on the road either.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    The model 3 about the same as the Zoé on that sort of journey, Molgrips, and probably yours, but now compare with a jaguar. For the accomodation provided and performance potential the Model 3 long range is very impressive IMO. The economy of a small hatch with the performance of a super car. Give credit where credit is due.

    Edit: I see you’ve edited with three times the text of the original post, Molgrips. Even with the edit I think you are being overly critical of the Model 3, the efficiecy in that vid test is excellent by any standards..

    molgrips
    Full Member

    The best thing they’ve done IMO is fit 76kWh of battery into a saloon car (charger network aside).

    A Hyundai Ioniq is a much more usable and long-range comfortable family car than a Zoe, incidentally, which is why we went for one. Not as plush as an M3 of course but then it’s about 2/3 the price.

    ta11pau1
    Full Member

    Also when I’m looking at EVs with potentially 2.6 m/kWh efficiency at 70mph, 4.5 is incredible… 🤣😭

    molgrips
    Full Member

    Yeah, some are pretty poor, hard to figure out why. The Bjorn Nyland only gets 180 miles from an Ioniq 5 at 75mph, which is not great. Obvs that car is not aero. There just aren’t many aero cars with big batteries. I think the Hyundai Kona and the Kia one are not much less efficient than mine and have a longer range battery option.

    ta11pau1
    Full Member

    Aero is the main thing affecting efficiency I think, after temperature and the need to heat the batteries and use energy for that.

    Unfortunately if you want something with masses of interior space it ain’t going to be aerodynamic.

    The Tesla isn’t particularly remarkable but it’s still good to see decent efficiency and long ranges at ‘normal’ motorway speeds.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    A Hyundai Ioniq is a much more usable and long-range comfortable family car than a Zoe

    Zoé 395km range, Ioniq 311km. If you charge when there are 50km left the usable range is 345km versus 261km. That’s being objective. As for the Model 3 it’s in another league, at least another 200km.

    Comfort is subjective, we both find the Zoé seats great on long trips including Pau to Poland in three days.

    Accomodation, there’s surprisingly little differenc between the three in parctical terms for us. Two people, two 27.5 enduro Mtbs and camping kit go in any of the three. Five people go in any of the three but they’ll be more restricted on lugage in the Zoé.

    If you can afford the Model 3 it’s a no brainer. It’s just as efficient, goes much further on a charge, has a specific charging network and is subjectively nicer inside – though I perfer the Zoé seats as I’m not big or fat and don’t like sticky, sweaty seat coverings.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    The Zoe was a great car, no question, but it felt more like a city car with a more upright driving position. Much preferred the Ioniq EV on the test drive. But nothing against Zoes and of course there is a long range option which I didn’t have; however I knew I didn’t need it.

    Aero is the main thing affecting efficiency I think, after temperature and the need to heat the batteries and use energy for that.

    Yes – I also think a heat pump is important. I think that Hyundai/Kia are good because they can scavenge heat from the motor and inverter and divert it to the cabin or battery, or even from the battery to the cabin if you are driving fast enough to generate it.

    5th Gear I think got 4 miles/kWh from their Ioniq 5, but I don’t think they were going 70mph. Or at least, the guy did; the woman couldn’t get close.

    The Ioniq 6 is going to be a great alternative to the M3 I reckon. The BMW i4 too but that’s expensive.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    This carwow vid says 3.7 from the Kia EV6 at 70mph, at least I’m assuming that’s what they are doing on the motorway (I fast forwarded a lot) and it’s winter when they do it.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    In France at least it’s only the Teslas that are worth driving at 70mph (or the local 130km limit) on a long journey, for two reasons: 1/ they’re more efficient at that speed than anything else unless you know different. 2/ you can be sure to fast charge them as and when necessary – with just about any other vehicle you’re better off driving slower to go further between charges and spend less time on the 50kW max chargers if you can find one that works and don’t end up on 22kW.

    There are ads for the fast charging potential of the Ioniq 5 on TV here, thing is that there isn’t a charger that will deliver more than about 40kW within the Ioniq 5’s range of where I live. Like many people I still live in a world where it’s the charging speed of chargers that dictates the optimum speed to do a long journey in anything other than a Tesla. An Audi e-tron would be slower than a Zoé/Leaf/Ioniq to Paris from here because it would spend more time charging. A Tesla would do the trip at the autoroute speed limit on two supercharges and be there hours before.

    whatgoesup
    Full Member

    What safety concerns?

    Heating / overheating of the plug, socket and 13A wiring. Unlike dishwashers, heaters etc it’s likely to be “at load” for longer periods of time and more often.

    There’s quite a bit of noise about it if you google it, but it mostly seems to come from suppliers of home chargers who clearly have a vested interest in people buying a charger.

    pedlad
    Full Member

    7k miles into an ioniq 5 awd. 3.5 kw per mile average. I like to enjoy driving it on country roads and haven’t changed into an economy seeking miser in changing to this car. that mileage involves quite a decent amount of 170 mile motorway journeys. V happy with car and charging (ultra fast dc) when needed but as already stated 95% is done slowly at home. Wouldn’t go back to diesel.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    The socket I use is a “Greenup” which is EV specific. It has a greenup tag in it which communicates with the charger block to tell the block to charge at 3.2kW, if the block doesn’t detect a green up tag it will only charge at 2kW.

    The greenup socket is wired with thick cable from a 20A 30mA differential breaker. No risk of overlading at 3.2kW.

    All the normal sockets in my house are 16A rated with normal 2.5 cable and a 16A breaker fed from a 30mA differential breaker. No risk of overloading at 2kW (9A)

    On campsites I’ve charged on a camping socket with only a 10A breaker. Works just fine at 2KW.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    Heating / overheating of the plug, socket and 13A wiring. Unlike dishwashers, heaters etc it’s likely to be “at load” for longer periods of time and more often.

    True, but like I say you can throttle them down.

    it’s only the Teslas that are worth driving at 70mph (or the local 130km limit)

    Yeah the 70mph UK limit helps us a fair bit. 130km/h would make a serious dent in range.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    @edukator the Tesla may be more efficient at 70mph but that doesn’t mean it’s not using more power overall. It’s just using the minimum watts per unit of speed, the laws of physics still apply otherwise.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    That doesn’t contradict anything I’ve said.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    On the subject of efficiency, I really hope Mercedes make the EQXX – and that I can afford one one day. 7.2 miles/kWh and just look at it.

    https://media.mercedes-benz.com/vision_eqxx

    pictonroad
    Full Member

    😂😂

    Do yourselves a favour and do not engage with molgrips when it comes to Tesla. I’m bot sure why but he has a vendetta against them, it’s like arguing with mince, you won’t win.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    That doesn’t contradict anything I’ve said.

    Umm…

    it’s only the Teslas that are worth driving at 70mph (or the local 130km limit)

    Yes it does.

    Why is it “worth driving” at that speed if it’s using more power than a slower speed? It may be using that power more efficiently but its still using more power. This is the same argument I had with someone only a few weeks back that cars use more fuel at 20mph than 50mph because its not as efficient.

    doomanic
    Full Member

    Why is it “worth driving” at that speed if it’s using more power than a slower speed?

    I think you’ve missed the point of Ed’s post. I think he meant that the Tesla is the only car worth driving at that speed because the charging network is far superior.

    ta11pau1
    Full Member

    Why is it “worth driving” at that speed if it’s using more power than a slower speed? It may be using that power more efficiently but its still using more power.

    You missed this vital part:

    with just about any other vehicle you’re better off driving slower to go further between charges and spend less time on the 50kW max chargers if you can find one that works and don’t end up on 22kW.

    Because it’s not just about power use, it’s about charging. If you drive the Tesla at 70mph, you use more energy, but it can also charge at a fast speed (and you have to charge more due to driving faster). But drive a car with slower charging at the same speeds you’ll use the same power but spend more time charging, so you’re better of driving slower, spending more time driving but less time wasted charging at slower speeds. Tortoise and hare…

    Edukator
    Free Member

    Squirrelking has deliberately missed the point of my posts and is hoping for a rise from his provocation. But thanks for the support guys. He’s doing the same on the energy thread and did the same on the swimmingpool water thread last week.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    Do yourselves a favour and do not engage with molgrips when it comes to Tesla. I’m bot sure why but he has a vendetta against them

    No I have a vendetta against fanbois. The cars are alright, efficient but badly made, the charging network is great, buy one if you want.

    ta11pau1
    Full Member

    Well, the new electric price cap (for those not on cheaper overnight rates) basically means charging from home on the car I’m looking at is no cheaper than diesel.

    52p per kWh at 3.0 miles per kWh works out around 16p a mile.
    If your car does 4.5m/kWh it’s around 11p a mile.

    By comparison, diesel at 50mpg and 1.80 a litre is 16p a mile.

    God knows what’ll happen the to public charging prices…

    Edukator
    Free Member

    I agree that there’s no financial incentive to buy electric at present ta11pau1. It needs some political will to properly favour electic cars to change that as in Norway or Denmark. The war has had far more impact on gas and thus electricity prices than petrol prices. The cheap French nuclear energy is no longer available for export because their are so many reactors off line. Hopefully some of that is temporary. In the long term the world needs to increase generating capcity not only to cope with current demand but allow a transition to an economy that runs on electricity.

    That requires post-WWII style planning, foresight and investment. Having a populist government in the hands of the speculators isn’t going to yield the vchanges needed. The west used to mock the soviet five-year plans, we need 5, 10, 15, 20… year plans and have a leadership that doesn’t plan beyond yesterday.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    @ta11pau1 thank you, I see where I was missing his point now.


    @edukator
    , see what happens if you actually answer the point rather than trying to score victim points? There was nothing deliberate about it and if you had actually answered my point rather than stirring for drama (my point was very obvious and you could have easily pointed out my error but chose not to) we could have simply moved on. Food for thought.

    But yes, I was wrong, my mistake.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    And another load of insult dressed up as an apology. If I’d answered you’d have invented another line of attack, that’s what you do, and that what you’ve just done.

    What’s your objective Squirelking, get me banned again?

    A few months go Daffy and I pointed out that your posts on this thread amount to a string of provocative anti-EV propaganda with quotes and page refrerences when you claimed not to be anti-EV. I got a ban for arguing. You get personal and insulting at every opportunity.

    The owner or this site runs an EV, at least one moderator does and yet you bring a great deal of unpleasantness to the thread with seeming impunity.

    I’m trying to communicate with the moderators because this isn’t good for STW, it’s why day old posts are now half way up th ethread s page IMO. I’m doing my best not to rise tto the provocation, but that’s only half od the solution.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    More good news for fans of normal cars over SUVs. This will be a good Tesla rival:

    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/a6/354758/2022-audi-a6-e-tron-set-take-tesla

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Well, the new electric price cap (for those not on cheaper overnight rates) basically means charging from home on the car I’m looking at is no cheaper than diesel.

    52p per kWh at 3.0 miles per kWh works out around 16p a mile.
    If your car does 4.5m/kWh it’s around 11p a mile.

    By comparison, diesel at 50mpg and 1.80 a litre is 16p a mile.

    God knows what’ll happen the to public charging prices…

    I’m driving London-Gloucester-London tomorrow with my diesel in Eco mode. There’s a bun fight going on in the office becuase 4 of those that took the Electric only company car option are fighting over the (currently) two car park chargers even before the price rises. Funny thing is, none of those people are doing more than half of my mileage.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    Well, the new electric price cap (for those not on cheaper overnight rates)

    Why wouldn’t you be on the cheap overnight rate?

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