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  • The Electric Car Thread
  • Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    I did read that one yes.

    Imagine an efficient electric car with a 60 kWh LFP battery that can be charged at a constant 240 kW rate, do you really need more battery capacity?

    No, but with more energy-dense batteries you could have the same range with half the weight and cost, e.g. with a lithium sulphur battery.

    Premier Icon peteimpreza
    Full Member

    Anyone got an Ioniq 5 yet?

    How are you getting on?

    Premier Icon Flaperon
    Full Member

    whatgoesup – the Model 3 will take two bikes (with front wheels off) and two people, and all their stuff. There’s a surprising amount of storage if you use the froot and bloot as well as the boot.

    I think you’d get three people and their bikes in. Would be uncomfortable though.

    Model Y is the same price as the 3, isn’t it?

    Premier Icon whatgoesup
    Full Member

    @flaperon / yep, they’re pretty much the same price now I believe. I just like the way the 3 looks (simple vanity).

    Realistically two adults and their bikes on a towbar rack (or roof mounted – plan to have both) is what I want to be able to do.

    The bigger challenge is probably me plus two nine year olds and their stuff – scooters, luggage, a tent and sleeping bags and etc. I know it won’t be as “easy” as a big estate but do-able is good enough. If I have to put a roof box on regularly it will get annoying really quickly – ideally the roof box is for 2-3 trips a year etc.

    Premier Icon jam-bo
    Full Member

    Saw my BiL at the weekend. He’s picked up an old C1 EV’ie and a really old fiat 126. He’s stripping the guts out of the EV’ie and transferring into the 126.

    looks like an awesome little project and my 10yr old son is itching to help.

    Premier Icon dantsw13
    Free Member

    Pete – my Ioniq5 finally turns up Friday!!! I’ll let you know.

    Premier Icon peteimpreza
    Full Member

    @dantsw13 thanks, look forward to hearing a real world opinion.

    Premier Icon dantsw13
    Free Member

    I’ve been driving an MG 5 EV for 3 months and had an Audi A6 estate for 4 years before. I’m looking forward to the fast charging capabilities of the I5 as the MG would only pull 50KW

    Premier Icon mrchrispy
    Full Member

    charge speeds tend to be overlooked and its just (if not more) important as over all capacity, the Niro tops out at 75kW and only for the first 50ish percent of battery, its 50 after that. doubling that would make a massive difference when charging out and about.

    Premier Icon Greybeard
    Full Member

    Charging speed dependence in starting capacity is a significant factor in planning a trip. It drops off after 50% and even more after 75%. If you could rely on chargers not being broken or occupied you could plan to charge at a lower state, saving time, improving battery longevity and freeing up the charger sooner. The percentage of chargers showing on zap-map as unreliable is quite high, and depending where you are it can be a long way to the next one with a reasonable speed.

    Premier Icon phiiiiil
    Full Member

    as the MG would only pull 50KW

    In optimum conditions the MG5 should go up to about 95kw until about 50%, then gradually fall from there.

    A problem is that “optimum conditions” are so rarely met that the claimed charging speeds of cars are worse than broadband speeds… it takes a warm battery (normally a good chunk of fast driving beforehand on a warm day), a mostly empty battery, and a charger that can actually provide what the car can take… most chargers are still 50kw ones anyway.

    Premier Icon pedlad
    Full Member

    Anyone got an Ioniq 5 yet?

    How are you getting on?

    4 months in on AWD version and it’s a great car. Looks amazing (IMHO), V spacious front and back, comfortable riding and seats on our rubbish local roads, fastest thing I’ve ever owned, handles pretty decently (with one proviso below), charges really quickly on the odd occasion I’ve needed to away from home, to the point where you only have time for a wee and it’s back to 80%. Regen tech is quite complex but v configurable and clever. Loving not having to pod out for diesel – just wish I had the cash for solar panels. OTA updates now started for infotainment. Apple carplay is great but I also like the onboard sat nav.

    Downsides are the boot is quite big but rake of the back window stops you piling it up. This is better if you remove the false floor. Massive with seats down eg for a bike.
    If you drive it as per performance or fast on motorways the economy drops fast (same as IC!).
    Loads of the infotainment is configurable but not the main driver screen that shows speed where there’s lots of unnecessary visible space taken up with power/regen graphics.
    When really pushing on round a corner that has undulations/potholes the traction/stability throws a bit of a wobble and you almost feel the rear hop. Strangely not mentioned in any reviews but it’s definitely the electronics being over sensitive rather than the inherent chassis as it’s not there when those systems are switched off. (whats the insurance situation if you spin it backwards through a hedge after turning safety systems off?!)
    Charging speed is both charger power output and car-battery temperature dependent. So I have seen 220kw this summer (so quick the atmosphere is buzzing!), but often a 350kw charger only gets me 120-170kw. TBH that’s fine and I’m coming to the conclusion anything 100 or more is the golden ticket for a trip top-up, to get you home. Mine doesn’t have battery heating so this may be more of an issue in the winter but equally I’ve read people in Canada with battery heating, aren’t seeing much benefit as the software isn’t configured to help much.

    All in a cracking car…and doesn’t look like a wide mouth frog!

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    it takes a warm battery (normally a good chunk of fast driving beforehand on a warm day)

    I thought some modern systems use some of the power from the charger to warm or cool they battery anyway?

    Premier Icon switchbacktrog
    Free Member

    I had a preview look at the new Renault Megane E-tech last week……..Very impressed and it gets good reviews as well.

    Premier Icon dantsw13
    Free Member

    Teslas preheat the battery as you approach a supercharger. The I5 doesn’t have that yet but it is a rumoured software upgrade in the pipeline.

    Premier Icon mert
    Free Member

    I thought some modern systems use some of the power from the charger to warm or cool they battery anyway?

    Almost everything mid range or above on sale now does. If you’ve got smart mapping the car will start conditioning the battery for charging over the last ~10 minutes as you approach the charging location as well.
    Overnight/home charging strategy on everything I’ve played with in the last 12-18 months starts by conditioning the battery to get to optimum (not fastest) speed as soon as possible. Then finishes off by conditioning the battery to its ready to drive state once it’s at target SoC. (If you’ve set a departure time that is.)

    Premier Icon CountZero
    Full Member

    Regarding batteries, Volkswagen have been involved with an organisation called QuantumScape who’ve been developing a solid-state Lithium metal battery, and they seem to have cracked the issues with dendrites growing on the cathode.

    https://www.thebrighterside.news/post/first-commercially-available-solid-state-lithium-metal-ev-battery-charges-in-just-15-minutes

    Premier Icon peteimpreza
    Full Member

    @pedlad thank you

    Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    Simple hack to achieve unlimited EV range!

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    I’m going to Aviemore from Cardiff in September, debating wether or not to take the EV. It’s 513 miles. Assuming 4.6m/kWh and 55mpg, assuming a full battery leaving home and 45p/kWh on-road charging versus £1.85/l for diesel that makes it £86 vs £154 round trip. I’d arrive in Aviemore almost empty so I could perhaps save some money by slow charging it when I’m there. I’m assuming the use of Gridserve chargers but some of the ones on this list are Charge Place Scotland which appear to be a fair bit cheaper.

    However, I can only do it in Zap Map by setting the minimum battery to 15% and the max to 90%, because I’d need enough to get from Dunblane/Stirling ish where the last rapid chargers seem to be to Aviemore on one charge. The car can only charge at 50kW max, the quoted 20-80% time is 45 mins, and I’d need three stops. I might end up spending 3hrs stopped, which turns 8hrs of driving into an 11hr day. Not to mention the risk that chargers aren’t working or are busy.

    But, if I were driving diesel I’d still stop, probably for 1.5-2hrs total to eat and pee. So it might end up being only an 1-1.5hrs slower. That said, in the diesel I might be tempted to exceed the speed limit a bit on the empty sections of the A74M which could save a bit of time. I’d not dare do that in the EV.

    The diesel is a much nicer car to drive all day in and a lot bigger for putting camping gear in but that’s a reasonable chunk of cash saved and the time difference isn’t that great when you consider the stops that humans need rather than just the car.

    Premier Icon oldtennisshoes
    Full Member

    @molgrips – there are Ionity and BP Pulse chargers at Perth and Tesla chargers on the pilot in Aviemore.
    There are free 40kw chargers in Perth at Broxden and South Inch and Dunkeld.
    Some charge place Scotland places are free – make sure you sign up for an account beforehand and get the card.
    Have a look at A Better Route Planner as an alternative / accompanyment to ZapMap

    https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

    edit – are you camping at Glenmore?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    I haven’t booked camping yet, I appreciate this may be very foolish.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    Thanks for the link OTS – once I readjusted the very conservative default settings it’s given me 4 stops but each one is shorter so the total time comes down to 10h37 mins.

    Premier Icon oldtennisshoes
    Full Member

    I haven’t booked camping yet, I appreciate this may be very foolish.

    There are 5 options in and around Aviemore. Glenmore is my first choice because of access to the loch and bike trails. Not cheap, but location can’t be beaten IMHO.

    Premier Icon uponthedowns
    Free Member

    Some charge place Scotland places are free – make sure you sign up for an account beforehand and get the card.

    Very much this ^. ChargePlace Scotland chargers don’t take contactless and the ChregePlace Scotland app is a bit flakey plus mobile signal at chargers in the highlands can be non-existant so best to get the RFID card. Chargers in Stirling District are still free so maybe plan to stop at one of the the two ChargePlace Scotland hubs in Stirling (Forthside has the most amenities), I’ll be juicing up there when I drive ip to Aberdeen next weekend.

    Premier Icon maloney19710776
    Free Member

    EV6 77kWh driver since march. I’ll get anywhere from 280-350 miles depending on how I drive. recent “long” trips all from the Black Country include, Anglesey, Portsmouth, Malton North Yorkshire, Portsmouth, Hillingdon numerous times and Farnborough twice. I’ve quickly learned that the speed of charging is key. I’ve never had a problem charging immediately on arrival at the station and only once have had an issue with a charger not functioning and there were plenty of other chargers available on that occasion. I started out using ABRP and Zap map but in early may adopted Electric Juice app via Octopus and have not needed to bother with the others. I may break the other apps out for a trip to Edinburgh in September. I have seen speeds of 225kWh regularly however, in march 100-125kWh was more typical. 200 miles of additional range can be added in as little time as 10 minutes up to 30 minutes when colder. Often on the 300-350 mile round trip journeys I have to choose between cruising at 55-60mph and not bothering to charge or travelling 70-75mph and stopping once for 5 minutes or so. The availability of 100kWh+ chargers is tremendous on the trips I’ve taken. The cost of charging at stations seems comparable to fuel costs, if not slightly cheaper.

    Premier Icon pedlad
    Full Member

    Concur with everything you say about Hyundai / Kia platform although I’ve not seen 300 miles on the guessometer so I must have a heavier right foot or maybe EV6 has bigger battery. Great cars.

    Premier Icon maloney19710776
    Free Member

    I’ll see 4.5mile/kWh+ when running local, 4.2mile/kWh running 55-60mph, 3.5-3.7mile/kWh when doing 70-75mph. I will often see 5+ around local roads. Battery size of 77.4kW.
    Forgot to mention the vehicle to load is useful too, I often run the washing machine, dryer and dishwasher from it.

    Premier Icon pedlad
    Full Member

    Forgot to add re octopus card, I’ve not used that as find it expensive no? chargemyhyundai gives me 25 per kWh on ionity for 12 months and Bonnet a pre pay card gives a good price for everything else.

    Ps I5 looks better than EV6😉

    Premier Icon maloney19710776
    Free Member

    I’m fortunate that I don’t pay pay for work use so am not overly concerned at cost but, I agree 25p is a great rate, I typically see 50-65p. I do find the octopus/electric juice card plus app just makes the stopping and charging easier. It also includes non octopus chargers along with the price, availability etc. I also have the bonnet app but opened it once and realised there is so much less choice and information available. Often I don’t plan a route as such, I’ll stick Waze on and after 150 miles I’ll check what’s available and go from there. I’ve never got stuck yet.
    Not so sure on the looks of the i5, I am old though (50), it’s just a touch too modern for me. If I could have had an estate with decent charging speed I must likely would have selected that. 😂

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    I have not bothered with joining any schemes since we don’t do a lot of long trips or many miles in general. It didn’t seem worth subscribing to anything.

    I have noticed that the new update in the Ioniq EV now has live charger information which is far better than it used to be. However you cannot plan an entire journey in the car. You can look at chargers along the route and it will let you plan your next stop, but not all of them.

    I5 looks better than EV6

    I agree, I think the EV6 looks ugly and snarly. Sorry 🙂

    Premier Icon andylc
    Free Member

    On the edge of possibly going electric. Tesla obviously wins from an aesthetic point of view but once you take into account insurance costs any money I would save on fuel is immediately gone. Considering the Peugeot E208 which is lovely to drive and has an acceptable if not amazing range and fast charging (30 mins 20-80%)

    Premier Icon tlr
    Full Member

    Weirdos, I really like the look of the EV6!

    Might well be my next car but I will need to check if two bike boxes plus luggage will fit in the back, as it does with my A6 estate – any thought @maloney19710776?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    Tesla obviously wins from an aesthetic point of view

    You what? They’re gopping.

    once you take into account insurance costs any money I would save on fuel is immediately gone

    Oh? What’re you being quoted? I don’t think our Ioniq EV is any more expensive to insure than our other cars.

    Another thought – ours is being fixed, rather slowly by Wessex Garages, and they’ve given us an i10 which despite being petrol and MANUAL transmission, which is an absolute indignity 😉 it’s rather fun. I might consider a small runaround for a next EV if one could be had more cheaply.

    Premier Icon andylc
    Free Member

    Sensible EV cars I think are not much of an issue insurance wise. Tesla Model 3 would double my insurance and Model S would be 3-4 times.

    Premier Icon pigyn
    Free Member

    Anyone keen on the Sono Sion?

    Simple, nice size, decent range, covered in solar. Got moss in it. I liked.

    Premier Icon maloney19710776
    Free Member

    With back seats down it takes two bikes, depending on frame size I might need to take the front wheel out of one to make loading/unloading easier. I’m not precious about my bikes though, scratches and dents galore. Never tried a bike box. A recent airport run took three full sized cases in the boot comfortably.
    EV6 is easily the best looking car out in the market place.

    Premier Icon dantsw13
    Free Member

    Remember 30 minutes to 80% in 5he Peugeot is pretty slow because the battery is tiny! I liked both the EV6 and I5, only chose the I5 as it was a lot cheaper fully loaded on my work scheme!

    Teslas are a bit Fugl6, and their drivers are the e version of Mercedes Man! 3 times I’ve sat next to a Tesla charging to 100% at snails pace at a single charger.

    Premier Icon ta11pau1
    Full Member

    Been doing some sums the last couple of days based on the E-Berlingo/E-Rifter – granted I’m not a ‘typical’ use case as I will do around 7000 miles a year, half of that within range of home charging (130-150 mile realistic range) and the other half on multiple long trips, for instance a typical year might be:

    Scotland 1000 miles
    Lakes 700 miles
    S Wales 400 miles
    N Wales 600 miles
    Dartmoor 500 miles

    At the fairly typical cost of 48p/kWh on gridserve public chargers, that works out at £21.60 for a full charge from 0-100% of the 45kwh usable battery, for 130 mile range that means 16.6p per mile.

    As a comparison, my current diesel at £1.85 a litre fuel price and 50mpg would cost £21.87 for the same miles.

    So half my miles would be at the same cost as I currently pay.

    Home charging: @ 28p/kWh gives £12.60 for a full charge, if I’m doing more local driving it’s going to be less motorway and more town so let’s say 150 mile range. That gives 8.4p per mile.

    3500 miles at 16.6p is £580
    3500 miles at 8.4p is £294

    £286 saving per year, or just under £24 a month. 🤨🙁 Whoophdehdoo!

    I was considering a lease as you can get them around £400pm or just over – if I could save £100 pm on fuel I’d be paying the same as I have been for the last 3 years, but with another £12-15k in the bank. However, saving less than £30 a month on fuel is ridiculous, and that’s at the current electricity prices, which are only going to go up soon…

    I don’t think the Berlingo being such an inefficient car with a small range helps – you can’t go very from home before needing a charge.

    Seriously considering picking up a cheapish diesel auto Berlingo this winter for about £8-10k, then sticking a camping pod boot jump kit in it. Still considering an electric version as they have some advantages when it comes to camping, but the lease costs would need to come down a bit.

    Premier Icon matthewlhome
    Free Member

    Have you looked at a variable tariff like octopus go? That’s currently 7p /kWh off peak which makes a big difference in fuel costs. Balanced out with the higher day rate that is averaging 11p / kWh for us.
    However, we seem to manage nearly 20k miles a year, mostly running around local very rural roads, so the difference is more significant.

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