• This topic has 2,945 replies, 249 voices, and was last updated 2 weeks ago by olddog.
Viewing 40 posts - 2,641 through 2,680 (of 2,946 total)
  • The Electric Car Thread
  • dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    I wouldn’t hesitate to do a journey like that again in an EV but it would absolutely have to be a Tesla. Once you’re off their infrastructure it’s a shit show

    Yep was off piste last weekend and used a none Tesla charger,
    lots of hassle and I wouldn’t like to have to rely on them on a trip.

    freeagent
    Free Member

    Q4 Quattro Etron ordered through Tusker today, delivery date June..23 ..

    I ordered a Volvo XC40 Recharge as a replacement company car at the start of April. Delivery date stated as 12-Jan-23, but i’ll be amazed if it turns up on time.
    Can’t come soon enough considering the current diesel prices!

    ayjaydoubleyou
    Full Member

    From June 30th all home chargers are required to be “smart” chargers and have a data connection.
    On the face of it, provides good benefits especially on cars that dont have on board charge timers to allow you to take advantage of cheaper off peak power.

    But a tin foil hatted part of me wonders if this is just paving the way for taxing EV charging – as a way to recoup fuel duty in the future.

    Are all cars capable of “granny charging” off a standard wall plug? Will this get around the issue? Most cars will do 7-9 mph charge speed like this, so you could get 60-80 miles of range added overnight which will do for most people, most of the time.

    simon_g
    Full Member

    Yes, they’ll all granny charge off a regular socket – plus there were thousands of non-smart domestic charge points installed even before smart ones were required for the grant.

    The “smart” stuff mandated now is around defaulting to off-peak charging, adding a random delay to the start of a charge (both overrideable if you want), and supporting some new demand regulation standards (which you can choose to sign up to).

    As homes get more electrified (car charging, heat pumps, induction hobs, etc) there’s a need for more smartness to manage demand – both within your house, and on the wider grid.

    The future will be road pricing, not trying to tax EV “fuel” separately to domestic energy.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    But a tin foil hatted part of me wonders if this is just paving the way for taxing EV charging – as a way to recoup fuel duty in the future.

    Well something’s got to replace lost fuel duty hasn’t it?

    mrchrispy
    Full Member

    it’ll be road charging, way too easy to bypass the smart charger is you wanted to

    oldtennisshoes
    Full Member

    I used the Belford (Northumberland) Tesla supercharger for my eTron a couple of weeks ago. Was simpler to use even than the Ionity ones, but it has hi-lighted the stupid position of the charging sockets on the car. I had to get the bumper almost touching the charger to get the plug to reach. On the return at 2 am I just drove along side blocking another bay in the hope that there wouldn’t be much business at that time of the morning.

    In recent trips down south I’ve been impressed with the aptly titled Fastned facility at Hamilton, the new Grid Serve chargers at Burton-in-Kendal and MFG Chargers at Crow Orchard (J27 of the M6).

    Length DOES matter!

    Fast Neds just outside Glasgow

    whatgoesup
    Full Member

    I’ve got a question. For RWD EVs… how does regenerative braking work when driving “enthusiastically”? For example, a BMW i4 40. It could be a bit like pulling on the handbrake mid corner if done wrong which would end badly so I’m sure the on board computer wouldn’t allow. So what happens? No regen while cornering? Front brakes are employed to balance things out?

    peteimpreza
    Full Member

    My employer is about to offer a salary sacrifice scheme for EVs with a company called LeasePlan.

    Have they made a good choice or should we avoid at all costs?

    v8ninety
    Full Member

    I’ve got a question. For RWD EVs… how does regenerative braking work when driving “enthusiastically”? For example, a BMW i4 40. It could be a bit like pulling on the handbrake mid corner if done wrong which would end badly so I’m sure the on board computer wouldn’t allow. So what happens? No regen while cornering? Front brakes are employed to balance things out?

    Skoda Enyaq; Can’t notice anything odd; you’d not know it was just the rear wheels applying braking force (in fact I’m I too you mentioned it, it hadn’t even occurred to me). I don’t think even full regen is actually very much braking at all in the grand scheme of things, and you’d really need to be driving ‘full twunt’ and be extremely close to the limits of adhesion for it to make any difference. You certainly don’t get that weird arse end settling feeling that you get when you use the handbrake to slow down instead of the footbrake (to see if you can put the right number of clicks on to gently stop at the line, obviously, I can’t be the only one who doe this on quiet roads every now and again?).

    molgrips
    Full Member

    I’d expect the ESP to know exactly what’s going on with all the wheels, so yeah if there were a hint of slippage it’d reduce regen, which it can do instantly. But as above, regen isn’t that much so you’d have to be right on the edge and remember these cars aren’t sports cars, if you get that close to the limit don’t expect them to behave like one.

    My employer is about to offer a salary sacrifice scheme for EVs with a company called LeasePlan.

    Aren’t they the ones who take advantage of the fact your payment is pre-tax and simply stick 40% on top of the normal prices?

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    If anything like Teslas then the moment wheel lock-up is detected, regen is rapidly reduced until the wheel rotates again and then subsequently much less than usual.

    dantsw13
    Free Member

    <blockquoteAren’t they the ones who take advantage of the fact your payment is pre-tax and simply stick 40% on top of the normal prices?

    That seems to be standard practice for Sal Sac providers. Certainly at least half the tax saving goes to them.

    mert
    Free Member

    I’ve got a question. For RWD EVs… how does regenerative braking work when driving “enthusiastically”? For example, a BMW i4 40. It could be a bit like pulling on the handbrake mid corner if done wrong which would end badly so I’m sure the on board computer wouldn’t allow. So what happens? No regen while cornering? Front brakes are employed to balance things out?

    In most modern systems all regen requests are processed in the same way as a brake request, i.e. negative torque, the motors just act as extra actuators.
    And traction/stability/steering controls are a factor in how that torque request is handled. So you’ll have a request for xNm braking sent to the rear motor and it’ll do just that, when x gets too large it’ll be split between front and rear axles (so you’ll activate front friction brakes) when it gets larger again (and hits the threshold for the motor) you’ll have motor and friction braking the rear axle, and just friction on the front.
    Steering works the same way, as you increase yaw rate the clever bits will add braking to the correct front wheel to ensure that the car stays level and doesn’t start sliding all over the place.
    The original i3 got this hugely wrong and had a large number of complaints and a rushed fix, which wasn’t very good either.

    I don’t think even full regen is actually very much braking at all in the grand scheme of things

    Most of the current and maybe ~50% of the previous gen can hit ~2.5 m/s2 deceleration just with one pedal drive. Even the i3, which is effectively two generations old, can do that.
    In a straight line the limitation is the energy going back into the battery, but it’s still possible to hit over 5m/s2 momentarily, completely on the electric motors (in AWD). A full on emergency stop will be around 8m/s2. And use friction brakes.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    I knew it was wise to wait… 😀

    BMW have launch the new 1X too, bizarrly with only 275 miles wltp. Perhaps they know mrs K only drives short distances…

    uponthedowns
    Free Member

    Oh I say. The Ioniq 6:

    But will it tow a caravan?

    molgrips
    Full Member

    Dunno. The Ioniq 5 is one of the best towers so maybe.

    Also saw an EQE at the Merc dealer today. Phwoargh.

    bizarrly with only 275 miles wltp. Perhaps they know mrs K only drives short distances…

    Since when us 275 miles a short distance? It’s plenty, I’ve got no issues with a 185 mile range.

    mert
    Free Member

    BMW have launch the new 1X too, bizarrly with only 275 miles wltp. Perhaps they know mrs K only drives short distances…

    Not sure what’s bizarre about it, knowing what the huge majority of your customers *actually* do, and making the car more efficient (lighter) seems to be a win win.

    Something like 95% of customers could do a weeks driving on a 400km range battery and only do two or three journeys a year that need a mid journey top up there and back.

    I’m guessing we’re going to see a lot more prestige cars with prestige prices and smaller ranges (and better efficiency) until there is a step change in battery cost and/or achievable energy density.

    uponthedowns
    Free Member

    Dunno. The Ioniq 5 is one of the best towers so maybe.

    Whoosh. I should have used one of these 😉

    igm
    Full Member

    Ioniq 6

    Hmmm.

    So behind the back wheel was styled by Porsche and between the wheels by Merc, but who did the front of the car?

    molgrips
    Full Member

    Yes I thought it a cross between a Mercedes CLA and a Porsche.

    Whilst we’re waiting for that to come out there’s another new model on the market:

    molgrips
    Full Member

    until there is a step change in battery cost and/or achievable energy density.

    Judging by my news feed that’s coming, and fairly soon. That’s why I’ll hold off getting another; either the new bsttery tech will be cheaper, or it’ll demolish used prices of current tech. People seem to be pretty obsessed with being able to drive 300 miles or more without a stop.

    uponthedowns
    Free Member

    Judging by my news feed that’s coming, and fairly soon

    Dunno where you are getting your news from but if you are waiting for solid state batteries the opinion from an expert at the Battery Cells and Systems Expo I attended today is you’ll be holding off until after 2030. Yes pilot scale solid state exists but getting it commercialised at scale is going to take many years.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    Dunno where you are getting your news from

    Lots of it from phys.org, about developments in battery tech. Sure the stuff they report isn’t going to be on the shelves next week, but the numbers of people solving long-standing problems for different battery chemistries seems quite high. Lithium-air, lithium-metal, lithium-sulphur etc not just solid state.

    Nissan is opening a prototype solid state factory and is aiming for a car on sale by 2028.

    airvent
    Free Member

    Id quite like to jump on the hype train some point next year when my current car will be 8 years old and owe me nothing finance wise. I’m not a bad candidate for charging at home since have a driveway and garage but currently work involves driving some fairly long distances. I tend to be fairly regular at stopping for a piss break anyway so to be honest I don’t see it affecting much there.

    Just wish they weren’t so expensive to purchase or lease, I don’t get any fancy company car salary sacrifice tax hack schemes just a straight up 3k a year (fairly shite) allowance, taxable at 20%.

    uponthedowns
    Free Member

    but currently work involves driving some fairly long distances

    How are you reimbursed for using your car on business? If you get the HMRC rate of 45p per mile then if you use an EV with decent efficiency that’s a nice little earner. Combined with lower maintenance and zero vehicle excise duty might make the total cost of ownership more competitive for you.

    airvent
    Free Member

    How are you reimbursed for using your car on business? If you get the HMRC rate of 45p per mile then if you use an EV with decent efficiency that’s a nice little earner. Combined with lower maintenance and zero vehicle excise duty might make the total cost of ownership more competitive for you.

    Nowhere near 45p a mile, more like 21p but it might be less than that for those using an EV. All I can do is claim tax relief on the difference.

    revs1972
    Free Member

    5p a mile for EV isn’t it ?

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Our company policy states 15ppm and I believe it follows HMRC.

    Just wish they weren’t so expensive to purchase or lease, I don’t get any fancy company car salary sacrifice tax hack schemes just a straight up 3k a year (fairly shite) allowance, taxable at 20%

    This is me, just had to “refresh” a euro 4 diesel to keep it another year until perhaps costs and availability calm down. With the news that gov.uk is failing big time on he 2050 climate target I feel very dirty, but not prepared to hit the family financially in the current climate. I don’t think they are doing anything much to promote green travel IMO. I will though take trains where I can.

    mert
    Free Member

    Judging by my news feed that’s coming, and fairly soon.

    Going from success in a lab to commercial/domestic scales is a HUGE step. There are technologies that have been “solved” for lab and small scale tech use 10 or 20 years ago that are still 10 years off for true volume production.

    I suspect the early Solid State cars will be much like fuel cell, low volume for a few years then quietly shelved, i mean, we’ve had fuel cells for a decade and there were still only something like 75-100000 sold globally, and that’s over 10 models and 5 or 6 manufacturers, 3 of whom have discontinued development.

    Unless they can actually solve the current issues on a production line, turning out 5000 units a day. Each one of which is almost fit and forget/minimal servicing for several years.

    AD
    Full Member

    @uponthedowns – I was about to post the same thing – I think we were talking to the same people!
    I was at the same show – albeit for the Advanced Materials bit – I has a wander around the battery expo for interest 😃

    molgrips
    Full Member

    Going from success in a lab to commercial/domestic scales is a HUGE step.

    Yes I know that, that is the stuff I read about.

    mert
    Free Member

    I get to deal with the people writing the articles, trying to sell their “fully industrialised process”.

    “We built a production line that can make 5 units an hour, scrap rate is 20%. I think we’re ready for the big time now.”

    ayjaydoubleyou
    Full Member

    “How are you reimbursed for using your car on business? If you get the HMRC rate of 45p per mile then if you use an EV with decent efficiency that’s a nice little earner. Combined with lower maintenance and zero vehicle excise duty might make the total cost of ownership more competitive for you.”

    Nowhere near 45p a mile, more like 21p but it might be less than that for those using an EV. All I can do is claim tax relief on the difference.

    If they are giving you a car allowance then there is no compulsion to give you the 45p (and iit would be taxed if they did).
    They can set their own milage rate that can vary between fuel types/engine sizes etc.
    If you are doing long trips and need to use motorway chargers 5ppm probably isnt going to cover it.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    I get to deal with the people writing the articles, trying to sell their “fully industrialised process”.

    Fortunately I’m also aware of how these things get written 🙂

    My comment is about the number of different groups of people doing it, not what they are actually saying.

    v8ninety
    Full Member

    If you are doing long trips and need to use motorway chargers 5ppm probably isnt going to cover it.

    Not to mention that business mileage rates should cover total ownership costs on a pro rata basis rather than just fuel; in my experience, (on our second leased EV now, but also run two IC cars in our household) costs are not very dissimilar between electric and IC for reasonably new, like for like vehicles. They aren’t cheap to own, they just happen to have cheap fuel (for now).

    ayjaydoubleyou
    Full Member

    Not to mention that business mileage rates should cover total ownership costs on a pro rata basis rather than just fuel; in my experience, (on our second leased EV now, but also run two IC cars in our household) costs are not very dissimilar between electric and IC for reasonably new, like for like vehicles. They aren’t cheap to own, they just happen to have cheap fuel (for now).

    which is why he gets the £3k car allowance

    You either get car allowance + “fuel cost” which would be the ~15ppm ICE or 5ppm EV

    Or you get 45ppm tax free (up to your first 10000 miles) and nothing else which is meant to cover, proportionally, your running costs, depreciation etc.

    v8ninety
    Full Member

    Ah, fair enough, didn’t spot that bit. To be honest, the way that running costs are going, both figures are pretty derisory.

    B.A.Nana
    Free Member

    This is what Molgrips is referring to I assume. A battery that’s very thermal efficient so can maintain a max charge rate for much longer than current batteries

    CATL LAUNCHES CTP 3.0 BATTERY
    – CATL released more details on its new module-less battery packs called Qilin, which are expected to be mass produced and come on the market in 2023.
    – The VCTP (volumetric cell to pack) ratio is 72 %, which is the percentage of the total battery pack volume dedicated to the active material that actually stores energy (cells), leaving 28 % of the total volume to the passive material, responsible of assembling and protecting the cells. For comparison, the popular BYD Blade battery had an estimated VCTP ratio of 62,41 % when released.
    – CATL will use multiple metal plates between the cells multiplying the heat transfer surface area by 4, making the TMS (Thermal Management System) very fast and efficient in heating or cooling the battery. This will not only enable to heat the battery in just 5 minutes when there are freezing temperatures, but also cool down the battery so it can be charged at a constant 4 C-rate and only take 10 minutes from 10 to 80 %.
    – CATL claims that the NCM packs will enable a range of 1.000 km, probably in China Light-Duty Vehicle Test Cycle (CLTC), which is around 782 km in WLTP.
    – Imagine an efficient electric car with a 60 kWh LFP battery that can be charged at a constant 240 kW rate, do you really need more battery capacity?
    Original Source : https://pushevs.com/2022/06/23/catl-launches-ctp-3-0-battery/

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