EDIT… the penny has just dropped that a large chunk of what they term ‘conversion’ losses is the efficiency of power generation from fuel sources (no idea how that is computed for Nuclear though…) Still an interesting chart…

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1006701/DUKES_2021_Chapter_5_Electricity.pdf

Umm, that’s not news. At all.

Nuclear is easy, thermal power (MW) to electrical output. Same as any other thermal source really.

What’s not news?

Nuclear – OK got you….. so basically the efficiency of the steam generation, turbine and generator etc.

I’m not sure that’s the same as any of other sources on the chart though, probably why it’s shown on it’s own. For combustion power plants the input number is the energy contained in the fuel. Wouldn’t make much sense to compute it that way for nuclear however !

one mans experience with an electric car

>one mans experience with an electric car

More fake clickbait drama.

As above, a nuclear power plant is just the same as a coal power plant – a boiler producing steam that drives turbine(s). In fact one of the design goals of the UK’s AGRs was to be able to use the same turbines as coal plants by getting the CO2 coolant outlet temperature to ~640 °C.

PWRs and BWRs have lower temperature coolant outlet – e.g. PWR ~315 °C

This makes PWRs and BWRs less efficient (thermodynamic efficiency depends on the temperature difference between the heat source and the cold sink) – but it doesn’t really matter as the CO2 equivalent for nuclear fuel is very low – it’s the mining and refining / enriching which compared with E=MC² is small. Cost of fuel is a small proportion of overall cost for nuclear plants (and for wind and solar of course) whereas for fossil fuels it’s almost all the cost.

Footnote: Whilst all UK nuclear power plants use Rankine steam cycles there are other possibilities especially if working at higher temperatures e.g. gas cooled pebble bed reactors. Such a reactor could use the Brayton cycle like a jet engine or gas power station.

What’s not news?

@paul0 sorry I totally misinterpreted what you meant there, I thought you meant the government had only just realised this!

Yes you can calculate the energy in the fuel, same with nuclear. No experience of conventional power but I’d be surprised if they didn’t have an indicator of generated heat to compare to output as well.

I have coursebook that covers all this if you or anyone else would be interested in them. It’s the entire pre-pub book set for OU T213 Energy Systems and Sustainability, I got the final copy and thought someone may appreciate them.

I read today that the top spec 4WD iD4 in the US after the grant is $41k or £30k. In the UK it doesn’t qualify for the grant and is £55k. What the actual ****?

Reading this with interest as I now know EV owners distributed between
– v well off, Tesla, frankly slumming it a bit
– not at all well off, Tesla, just very poor with money
– not at all well off, 2nd hand Zoe with limited range, uses free charging stations and potters around happily & economically
– well off, Zoe as a second car, has learned to plan any long journeys with great care!
– well off, big EV, just acquired so we shall see how it goes…

Looking at #3 you don’t have to be super rich if there’s a use case that works for you.
We only have room for one car and we do use the estate bit of it quite a lot, but I deffo have EV envy and can’t wait to have an EV estate or even better, van, with decent range.
Sadly I’ll have to!

More fake clickbait drama.

Yup. Pretty much like a lot of Guy’s stuff it has added drama.

@stripeysocks I think you missed a major category if not the largest one – company car drivers. The low (or is it zero?) BiK and low lease costs make having an expensive EV as a company about the same as a pretty basic ICE car.

The Hyundai Ioniq 5 does look lovely

an indicator of generated heat to compare to output as well

Absolutely. e.g. Hinckley C has thermal output of 2 × 4,524 MW and a rated electrical output of 2 × 1,630<span class=”nowrap”> MW. </span>

(It’s 2 x as the power station will have 2 identical reactors with their own turbines and generators)

@molgrips – Yeah €48k minus the $7.5k grant for the first 200k EVs that VW sell, + the state sales tax, make it an average of around $44k. Us on our (generally) lower wages have to pay more.

RE Guy Martin video – My use case for a car is probably more typical than this ‘how far can we go’ ‘how hard is it’ we get on such videos.

Ended up with Kia Soul EV with 64kwh battery, we have found summer range to be over 280 miles pretty much however we drive it and usually get a shade over 290 miles (~4.5 miles per kw and we have seen between 4.2 and 4.7 in normal use depending on conditions and route).

Typical week is
1 visit to office, 50 miles each way, 7kw charger on other side at £2.20 per 4 hours.
Rest of week is used school runs and wife to go to work.
At weekend might do a 50-120 mile round trip.

Aim to drive to work with ~110 miles range, charge at work for £4.40 which covers virtually all other use, if needed we top up at home.

Expectation in winter and when back to office more often is have a bit more in tank before leaving home and more top-ups at home, and likely another 4 hours or two a week when at office.

Is it cheaper than an ICE car when all is considered? No, but on the basis our car was stolen and we needed to replace we went electric.

More importantly I find it extremely comfortable / easy to live with. Don’t regret it at all.

Us on our (generally) lower wages have to pay more.

Not sure we’re on generally lower wages, in most cases tbh, it’s just certain high wages skewing mean and median wage. But anyway. This is clearly marketing based. But the good news is, they are clearly over-charging the UK which means that when sales start to slow they will lower them and there’s a long way for them to go. Give it a few years there’ll be ‘new lower prices!’ and we’ll be able to afford them.

rather a strong review for a newcomer. wonder if they’re going to pop up in the UK

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a37852273/2022-lucid-air-dream-edition-drive/

1000bhp, 500 mile range, £100k in the US (500bhp version with 400 miles of range will be approx £50k)

If you were to rock up to a national drag racing championship race in the USA with a Lucid Air or a Tesla Model S Plaid they are so fast you would have to equip them with a braking parachute to meet race regs. Not bad for luxury saloon cars.

I saw that Lucid one, nice and good for EV image but I’m not sure that’s a problem that needs solving. Cheap enough cars and more infrastructure are the things I really want to see.

It’s still a damn nice car tho. That essentially all-glass roof is incredible. Imagine being in the back being driven through mountains and forests…

I saw that Lucid one, nice and good for EV image but I’m not sure that’s a problem that needs solving. Cheap enough cars and more infrastructure are the things I really want to see.

That’s the issue affordable options for normal people, Tesla and polestar grab the headlines but most people only really need a Leaf or Zoe. I did notice the new Corsa EV the other day, except it starts at £24k… For a Corsa?!?

the thing is its pretty hard for a startup to compete with cheap cars – they aren’t going to have the mass engineering or economies of scale to make the margins work. At the luxury end of the market there’s a far bigger gap between cost and value, so its easier to make a dent.

I can’t think of a genuinely new (ie not just a subbrand of an existing company) small\cheap car company from the last 30 years – its just not a viable space to work in.

Yeah I agree. But I think we have Tesla to thank for making people realise that EVs aren’t crap. People are fickle.

Will be interesting to see if the new ‘cheap’ Tesla actually comes to the UK and if it does if it will be under £20k – can’t see it happening myself.

I think we won’t see cheap cars until expensive cars stop being sold at the rate the batteries can be made. The US is building its own battery factories at speed, because it has the cash to invest and it’s a big market. This means that the cars there are cheaper. The iD4 is going on sale for approx 2/3 the price it is here, after the federal discount.

If they made them cheaper here they’d sell more than they could make I suspect.

I did notice the new Corsa EV the other day, except it starts at £24k… For a Corsa?!?

You can easily spend over £20k on a petrol or diesel Corsa these days though, and they don’t make the EV one in the cheapest trims. The EV is also comfortably the quickest Corsa these days.

On PCP at the same trim level, the EV is about £20 a month more expensive than a petrol auto, but you’ll be saving £66pm in fuel (10p/mile difference in running cost, 8000 miles a year), It stacks up if you’d be buying a Corsa anyway.

Not sure we’re on generally lower wages, in most cases tbh, it’s just certain high wages skewing mean and median wage.

A senior Aerospace Engineering on the west coast of the US will earn ~$125k. That will be £50-60k in the UK and €80-90k in France and Germany.

A senior Aerospace Engineering on the west coast of the US will earn ~$125k. That will be £50-60k in the UK and €80-90k in France and Germany.

similar gap in salaries for software engineering as well – I manage people based in (inexpensive parts of) the US who are earning a chunk more than me. Lower taxes and general cost of living (see house prices in particular) mean that there’s a lot more disposable income around

Lower taxes and general cost of living (see house prices in particular) mean that there’s a lot more disposable income around

The latter is less true for me (Mobile aside) as Seattle, California and Chicago aren’t cheap to live in. Food isn’t that cheap in the US. Cheap food is cheap, but decent food is about the same as here (pre-brexit), but transport, tech, fuel and energy are cheap.

I quite like the look of the new Škoda Enyaq iV. Prices start at around £32k. I’m one year into a PCP plan on a Karoq (petrol) so let’s see what’s available in two or three years time

A senior Aerospace Engineering on the west coast of the US will earn ~$125k.

Property prices there are eye-watering though, and you have to live on a fault line at the bottom of a hill where you’ll get flattened by a landslide in the next earthquake.

You can easily spend over £20k on a petrol or diesel Corsa these days though, and they don’t make the EV one in the cheapest trims. The EV is also comfortably the quickest Corsa these days.

On PCP at the same trim level, the EV is about £20 a month more expensive than a petrol auto, but you’ll be saving £66pm in fuel (10p/mile difference in running cost, 8000 miles a year), It stacks up if you’d be buying a Corsa anyway.

Perhaps, but it’s still essentially just a base model vauxhall with a motor and batteries crammed in. I’ve owned a corsa before, I’m not too proud to buy a cheap badly built car but there has to be a significant financial advantage really. And if I was going to start dabbling with PCP, well, a Corsa?!??
Why not take a bit more debt on and buy something you might actually like?

I quite like the look of the new Škoda Enyaq iV. Prices start at around £32k. I’m one year into a PCP plan on a Karoq (petrol) so let’s see what’s available in two or three years time

We were 20 months into our PCP on a Karoq Sportline and sold it with 3.5k our way, have you done some quick checks on WBAC?

The Enyaq is a nice car, the non sportline versions look a bit old man-ish. Problem with the Enyaq is the toys and tech is on the optional extras, the base model compared to say an ID4 or Q4 isn’t that good.

Nice big car though none the less.

A work colleague has an electric Corsa and it’s a very nice car. If you want an EV that looks like a plain normal car the Corsa fits the bill.

I’m seriously considering a nearly new Leaf, but the Chademo fast charger connection makes me a little nervous. I’ve seen lots about the CCS ports being installed everywhere – is the Chademo socket ‘easy’ enough to find when on a long journey?

It makes me a little nervous that everything else has a different plug, and is a lot of money to spend and not be able to find fast chargers if needed.

Most journeys will be shorter from home so not an issue, but would want to take the ‘nice’ car away on longer trips.

You’ll be OK with CHAdeMO for a few more years as there are still plenty of rapid chargers around with CHAdeMO plugs but at some point it will go the way of Betamax. All new cars in Europe have switched to he CCS standard and even the new Nissan Ariya will be CCS. Maybe some enterprising person will come up with a CHAdeMO to CCS adaptor or a CCS conversion kit for old Leafs but apparently CHAdeMO to CCS adaption isn’t straightforward so probably won’t be cheap.

A current gen Leaf is a good car, but you might as well get a Hyundai Ioniq as it has more range, is as good of a car, and has CCS.

Jut read about the Ami yesterday.

https://www.citroen.co.uk/models/future-models/ami.html

Looks interesting. To me it could suit my mother in law who may be moving close by. Good for around town but not up to visiting us.

Thanks molgrips, also looking at Ioniq due to CCS but the challenge I have is that I have no car at all currently, so need to find something available now. The range looks about the same, but the bigger battery ionics are a good bit more expensive than the leaf.

Those Ami’s can be driven by 14 year olds in France without a licence, I wonder if we will head that way?

Apparently it’s a “low powered quadracycle” and can be driven by 16 year olds in UK.