The Electric Car Thread

The Model Y regen doesn’t post the numbers, you just get a green bar on the display. An icon comes up to tell me regen is limited/off and there is no one pedal braking. I often start at 100% (LFP battery) so have to drive a bit before I get the benefits. On the long descents we did over the summer I recall noticing lack of one pedal braking at the start and then part way down and just assumed the car had a good reason. It may have been due to hitting 100% again after starting full but I can’t remember.

Having spent a lot of my driving life either having to nurse/tinker old cars/bikes to keep them running, or living in fear of warning lights, with an ear cocked for new noises, I quite like the ‘appliance’ like efficiency of the Model Y. It just works.

I’m told the rear diffuser (along with the split boot spoiler) has real benefits in reducing the traditional drag bucket associated with the aerodynamics of a Wagon.   Without some CAD, I can’t fact check that.   But it’s somewhat irrelevant as it didn’t actually make it to the production car.  The black bit at the bottom which should be a diffuser is supposed now to just reduce the visual bulk at the rear of the car.

The grille is an Audi thing I could live without, but it’s actually smooth, not a grille, it just looks like one because, Audi.

But the lines look right, the proportions look good, it looks dynamic whilst standing still and it’s available in nice colour combos.  I don’t like the dash.  The screen is an odd shape and doesn’t seem to flow correctly with any interior lines.  *shrugs*  Doesn’t really matter, at£75k including options, it’s not really on my list.

The Model Y regen doesn’t post the numbers, you just get a green bar on the display. An icon comes up to tell me regen is limited/off and there is no one pedal braking

That’s pretty poor for a premium car to still be doing that. Especially as brake blending is so easy with the latest brake control systems. Consistency of behaviour is key for most customers.

On the long descents we did over the summer I recall noticing lack of one pedal braking at the start and then part way down and just assumed the car had a good reason. It may have been due to hitting 100% again after starting full but I can’t remember.

Could also have hit the operating limit of the battery, basically won’t take any more input without impacting on it’s ability to deliver output, even though it’s not full! Not a problem when charging, but a significant issue with excessive regen. Have managed to trigger that in a lot of EVs.

Talking proportions that look good, of course there’s a BMW i5 touring which looks almost exactly like a 5 series touring (if that’s your bag). But they are proper expensive and couldn’t quite bring myself to do that.

But as with almost all BMWs these days, it’s looks are…challenging.  It’s also MASSIVE! Almost exactly the same footprint as a Range Rover but not quite as tall.  280mm shorter.

I’ve seen one of those BMW i5 in the saloon version, it looks a bit like a Dodge Charger.

My car has battery heating and cooling, and it shows you how much has been spent on that on the daily reports and also live. It does spend some energy cooling or I think warming (not sure) the battery whilst charging. I’ve seen this on long trips in middling weather. However, it does NOT warm the battery before you get to your pre-programmed charger. Ioniq 5/6s do, but mine does not.

Re regen, it will stop regen when fully charged but only for a mile or two unlike the Leaf which wouldn’t do any until it got down to about 95% and didn’t do full regen until 92% or something. Also, you can have it give you actual numbers for regeneration power; the highest I’ve seen is about 70kW which is irritating since it’ll only do 47kW or so at a charger!

It’s also a simple, low cost and low weight way to improve multiple aspects of crash performance. Reduce NVH and improve ride and handling

It’s not. It’s to drop the floor pans and have somewhere for the services to go. Lower floors make a small car seem bigger.

Does the A6 have the same feature as the Q6? The best EV feature I’ve ever seen?

Charging point on both sides! Why don’t they all do that?

Charging point on both sides! Why don’t they all do that?

It’s not quite as useful as it first appears, as whilst there are AC charging connections on both sides only one side is DC.

Could also have hit the operating limit of the battery, basically won’t take any more input without impacting on it’s ability to deliver output, even though it’s not full!

That makes no sense at all, Mert. Got a technical explanation with a link?

Which was my original point and is correct whatever an i4 owner might claim for their “special” car.

nothing special, it just does what says on the tin in normal British weather (fairly cold and hilly south Lanarkshire, frosty and snowy days quite common in winter) it works exactly the same every day, from a drivers perspective. Nerds may disagree..

@nixie I’ll update in a couple of weeks, done some local driving over the weekend and a 100mile round trip today. I really like it. It’s comfy, quiet, feels well put together and is really easy to drive. Had a go with the regenerative braking, not sure it made much difference but I have the same journey again tomorrow so may try without. Got pretty much 3.5mi/kWh both ways today, on shorter journeys over the weekend I got more like 4. Looks wise, I don’t much like the front but I do like the rear. Not sure about stuff like the augmented reality HUD, partly it’s nice for nav while I’m getting used to where everything is but also partly a bit distracting. Other stuff in the HUD is nice (I come from a Mazda 6 with flip up screen type HUD so I like having the data there). Discovered I have different ‘modes’ – eco, comfort, sport and individual (I originally thought these were for DCC but it let me select each one so maybe not) – not sure any of them made any real difference.

Entry/ exit stuff is nice, I like getting in and the radio turning on immediately, not sure the seat moving back and forth is really of any benefit. Need to work out if there is any kind of memory function in the mirrors for different driver profiles. Also not sure how the seat memory works for different drivers.

On the whole, so far I’m really pleased and the gadget freak in me loves all the bells and whistles. I got the bog standard car with no options except black metallic paint and it still does absolutely tonnes of cool stuff.

When it stops raining (next year maybe?) I’ll put some bikes in it.

Had a go with the regenerative braking

The brakes always regenerate even if you press the pedal – so don’t sweat the regen settings it’s just preference.

That would explain why it didn’t seem to make any difference to the range/ efficiency figures. Good to know, thanks.

it works exactly the same every day, from a drivers perspective.

Brake blending, if the battery won’t take current, it uses the friction brakes. Consistency over all else.
Nerds agree.

That makes no sense at all, Mert.

It makes perfect sense, keep ramming/cycling energy into a battery from regen (which can *easily* hit the maximum charge rate of the battery) it heats up faster than you can cool it. That in turn restricts the power you can safely deliver from the battery (RMS battery limit is what the nerds call it). At some point the deliverable power hits a point that the manufacturer considers the lowest acceptable from a performance standpoint. Then it’ll start prioritising friction brakes and minimising the regen.
Some EV’s when you pop them into sport mode have no regen at all, 100% friction, to maximise the performance off the line.

It’s even an issue when rapid charging, if you stop charging while you’re actually at a 100+kW rate and have been for a while, then try to drive away immediately, the cars performance will be lacking.

Got a technical explanation with a link?

No.

Drove in this morning, regen “off light’ on. When you prod the icon,  the notes say regen may not work fully with a cold or fully charged battery. I had some one foot braking so not binary off/on.

There is a whole page of graphs and stats in the menus which I stopped looking at after a week or so..

Need to pump the tyres up now the temp has dropped… Good stereo…

There is a whole page of graphs and stats in the menus which I stopped looking at after a week or so

Is this on the in car menu, I can’t see anything via the app?

Need to pump the tyres up now the temp has dropped…

Same here, noticed that little symbol at the weekend.

Good stereo…

Also this, was very happy to find the Berlin RWD still have the Premium stereo (US models don’t) and it’s very good.

Is this on the in car menu, I can’t see anything via the app?

Yes, can’t remember where as I set it as a shortcut when I set all the menus up.

Still makes no sense, max regen on model 3/y is 76 kW and an average of 20-35kW provides all the braking you need on an alpine descent within the law, it depends on gradient and speed obviously but that’s the order of magnitude. The battery cooling system can easily handle that charge level even on the hottest day. I doubt davy was hooning it. Battery already full/ very nearly ful seems the best explanation as he thought rather than nerd possibilites that might be possible if you drive flat out down Pikes Peak.

View post on imgur.com

In Northumberland for a few days and needed a top up this afternoon, BMW i4 and down at 30%. Nav suggested Ionity HPC in Alnwick, which was just a few mins away. Silly me didn’t realise that 5 of the 6 chargers needed the App and I think subscription, the remaining one was card only and not working……

hey ho, went for lunch and subsequent walk at Joiners Arms and Low Newton beach with the dog and then popped up to the Tesla chargers on the A1 at Adderstone – was 430pm by this stage so busy, had to wait 15 mins to get a charger accessible on the ‘wrong side’ flap, then plugged in for exactly 20 mins, taking it from 23% to 72% and costing just under £26. That’ll get us home tomorrow with about 15% remaining and back to cheap home charging.

You get three years subs for Ionity and BP with the I4 and BMW charging. Did you not sign up?

^^ I signed up and it was only free for a year, from purchase last July. I had notifications that I’d need to go to an annual subscription after the first 12 months so cancelled it as I rarely charge away from home.

Octopus Electroverse card works on Ionity, you just tap and go. Octopus energy customers can bill to their account, but anyone can get one and bill to a credit/debit card. No costs outside of the charging itself.

Electroverse is bloody magic, just works (well it has so far)

IainC – ah, I see.

I didn’t sign up as I have an Allstar Chargepass which is yet to be defeated by any charger – even Chargeplace Scotland.

Octopus energy customers can bill to their account

Yep, it bills you randomly in addition to your monthly leccy bills leading to great confusion some weeks later until you remember this fact :)

yup just tap and go….they wait to see if they actually do charge you (‘m still waiting for a booths charge to appear from 4 months ago)

Niro went back on Monday, thought i’d check what we spend charging it at home. it’s around 400quid over 3 years maybe around for 20k miles.  not half bad

Bikes upright in the ID.7 boot… I’m not convinced personally, it was a bit of a faff when I’m used to taking the front wheel off and just shoving it in on its side in my saloon (half of the problem is I’m currently terrified of scratching the thing). You could definitely get two in like this, maybe even three if you are good at tetris. They unfortunately don’t go the other way around even with the movable floor totally removed. Boot opening at the edge is not high enough for a 29er wheel, and the seats don’t fold low enough to stop the slammed seat from touching the roof when going the other way around. I’ll probably get some new roof bar feet and stick to using the roof racks or when it’s just me, removing front wheel and throwing it in on its side.

Have used the electroverse app a couple of times locally and for the different providers round here it has worked flawlessly. Have a Uni open day trip coming up, so will use it in earnest then. The BMW folks didn’t seem interested in telling us about the BMW charging service, so will just use Electroverse as seems so well thougth out. Do need to see how well (if at all) it integrates w Android auto. ZapMap premium says it works w android auto, but haven’t tried. Any recommendations?

Anyone looking to install a charger in Sussex, i can recommend VoltEV in Buxted. Very responsive, really helpful and friendly. Installed in less time than it took to even get a reply from the Octopus EV team.

Bikes upright in the ID.7 boot…

Ta. FWIW I’ve bodged some stands for the rear axle using 4×2 and ply so I can stand bikes up with both wheels off which means they fit in the back of the standard issue Octavia estate with the forks in the dropped floor. That makes it easier for bigger trips away with luggage and bikes, but for day trips they still go on their side with front wheel off.

Argh I forgot there’s an extra space underneath the floor.. I’ll see if I can use that to lower everything enough.

Have the SMMT just shot themselves in the foot? They’ve asked HM Gov for more tax breaks to boost EV sales, partly for business buyers but also to get similar tax breaks for private buyers. So anyone who’s pondering a move to an EV (waves) is now going to defer that decision for a few weeks while this is resolved, and in the short term there will even fewer private buyers.

Extra tax breaks for EVs could be seen as direct investment in industry, but unless they are careful the side benefits will go straight to the better off people buying or leasing the more expensive new cars. There could be better ways to do this.

If they ploughed lots of money into on-street charging it would arguably open up a large market that is not currently able to take advantage of cheap motoring (quite possibly the ones who need it most). Or, for a bit more long term thinking, they could invest directly in cheap battery production and innovation in the UK and sell the batteries at cost to UK builders.

I see that the next generation Samsung solid state batteries have some impressive stats – 600 mile range, 9 minute charging to 80% and a 20 year lifespan. That could make on-street charging irrelevant as long as you can get a decent rate at charging stations which the average person would only need to use once or twice a month.

That could make on-street charging irrelevant

It’s the £/kw.hr issue that makes on-street charging appealing. Rapids require a lot of investment – a direct connection to a substation and expensive charger hardware – several tens of thousands if not into the hundreds of thousands of pounds. That has to be recouped – from the users hence rapids cost a lot to use. 7kW chargers meanwhile are fundamentally just a tap off the existing mains supply so the cable network is already there and hardware is cheap if mass manufactured.

Extra tax breaks for EVs could be seen as direct investment in industry, but unless they are careful the side benefits will go straight to the better off people buying or leasing the more expensive new cars.

No the tax breaks will be trousered by the OEMs who will hike their prices by the amount of  the tax break/subsidy as we saw with the EV grant.

Consider the investment and running costs in a petrol service station, whatgoesup. And then it requires a tanker turning up regulary. However because the turnover is high they make a profit, and that despite tiny margins. As I was sat at one of the 23/24 occupied Superchargers recently I did some mental sums on how much Tesla was making based on the average occupancy of those chargers:

The average occupancy shown on the app was about a third and I’ll assume the cars charging were pulling about 100kW (I was the only non Tesla)

So 8 x 100 x 24 = 19200kWh a day which is 7008000kWh a year.

I’ll make an edukated guess of Tesla making 15 cents/kWh. Even with that modest margin the charge station makes over a million euros a year. I doubt they’re losing money on them and what fantastic publicity for the brand they are.

Now consider what the not very competitive competitors are making with their mark up of around 55cents on motorway service areas.

All that to say I think Shinton makes a good point: Public charging stations, 250kW charging and solidstate batteries are more likely to be the future than charge points in lamp posts.

In my nearly 8 years of EV ownership I’ve seen models come and go very quickly:

The Renault Fluence is designed around a quick change battery – garages capable of doing that redundant.

7kW chargers in villages – now all removed (the plug standard is redundant anyhow)

22kW AC chargers in ones and twos all over the place – only used by locals, nobody uses them on a long journey anymore except maybe Zoe owners with the 22kW onboard charger. I haven’t used one for a couple of years.

50kW DC they usually gave between 25 and 40 in reality, if I come across one now I’m pissed off.

250kW DC now were talkin ! and I think they’re the future rather than 3.5-7kW from a lampost.

No the tax breaks will be trousered by the OEMs who will hike their prices by the amount of the tax break/subsidy as we saw with the EV grant.

The directors won’t just put the money in their bank account, that’s not how it works. They will keep the prices high (they are already hiked) but they’ll continue to invest it in R&D and production of more and cheaper EVs. They’ll have to, otherwise they’ll go bankrupt. The top brass in these companies are already very rich.

I see that the next generation Samsung solid state batteries have some impressive stats – 600 mile range, 9 minute charging to 80% and a 20 year lifespan.

Everyone’s working on these, and they all have numbers like that. But it won’t be used for 600 mile range cars (or at least not many). They will make 300 mile range cars that are 2/3 the price they are now and smaller and lighter. The minute they put a 600 mile car on the market and people are faced with the choice of a 30k car or the same car at 50k with more range, they’ll realise that 300 miles is enough.

We need on-street charging regardless. Because we have a surplus of power overnight, and people won’t want to drive to a rapid charger at 3am.

they all have numbers like that. But it won’t be used for 600 mile range cars (or at least not many). They will make 300 mile range cars that are 2/3 the price they are now and smaller and lighter.

Agreed. 400+ mile range is a nice marketing statement but fairly pointless if you can charge conveniently. The persistence of the ‘fill it up occasionally’ idea might shift eventually.

With ~200 notional miles of range I had no problems. With more range these days I still have a similar number of stops but, thanks to higher capacity and faster charging, with the problem that by the time I’ve been to the toilet I’m getting the ‘charging is nearly finished for your onward journey. Overstay fees may apply’ or whatever.

The directors won’t just put the money in their bank account, that’s not how it works. 

That’s not what I meant and you know it.

They will keep the prices high (they are already hiked) but they’ll continue to invest it in R&D and production of more and cheaper EVs.

If prices are already hiked why are you suggesting we give them even more money in the hope that they will give us cheaper EVs in the future rather than increased dividends to shareholders?  Seems rather naive.