Really impressed with the dash design and interior quality and material choice – for which I am a sucker.

You should try and get a look at a Genesis GV60. The interior quality is a step up from the Ioniq 5/6 and the EV6.
Same brilliant car underneath.

It’s not really how much it is, it’s the increase year on year.

EVs are now mainstream, they have a *lot* more data, and a lot more people driving them. Second hand market is there too. Hundreds of people driving cars they don’t care about quite as much, loads more being privately insured instead of as part of a corporate/salary sacrifice deal. It’s been coming for a while.

The squirt & go nature of a lot of electric cars seems to lead to some pretty dick-ish driving around here.

A fairly basic EV can probably develop more torque and out accelerate an M5 in city driving, 0-50kph (where you get lots of minor bumps and lots of claims.)
I know i’ve cracked my head off the B pillar in a proto BEV by nailing the throttle at part lock. 400Nm from 0kph isn’t really practical. (it was changed for production)
The only limitations on torque in an EV at low speed is generally how much torque the motor will develop and how much the tyres can resist. In an M5 you’ve got the entire powertrain limiting the torque, half shafts, props, differentials, transmission, air intake and so on. (It’s also easier for the tyres in an EV to resist torque, due to the way it’s delivered).

You should try and get a look at a Genesis GV60. The interior quality is a step up from the Ioniq 5/6 and the EV6.

Should hope so for an extra ten Gs

can probably develop more torque and out accelerate an M5 in city driving

this, I have inadvertently pressed the pedal a bit to hard in my i4 a few times coming into roundabouts and the like, it’s rather scary..

this, I have inadvertently pressed the pedal a bit to hard in my i4 a few times coming into roundabouts and the like, it’s rather scary..

As a motorcyclist I’m used to out accelerating almost everything, EVs definitely change that. Waiting to see if the auto city brake feature will save us from a steep increase in accidents caused by drivers mistakenly hitting the go pedal instead of the brake.

They’re not that violent unless you want to be. The torque application is pretty sensible.

A fairly basic EV can probably develop more torque and out accelerate an M5 in city driving, 0-50kph (where you get lots of minor bumps and lots of claims.)

Agreed. My basic, crappy LEAF (148bhp) can out accelerate to 30mph my pal’s 270+BHP Astra VXR.

I can see the yoooothzzz causing a lot of crashes in fast, heavy EVs in teh future to come!

DrP

DrP racing cars 😉. Hope it was on private land!?

Car drivers of future will only be able to afford autonomous taxi fares. That might limit the damage? Unless their hacking skills are up to scratch?

They’re not that violent unless you want to be. The torque application is pretty sensible.

It’s sensible in some cars, others, not so sensible.
The important thing is that it’s *different*.

DrP racing cars 😉. Hope it was on private land!?

Do-nuts in the Toys’R’us car park, followed by a rift race for pink slips…. 😉

Nah – just putting our foot (feet) down on a traffic light on a  straight stretch of road (basically, a moderately aggressive 0-30mph acceleration test).

DrP

Really? A ‘basic ev’ out accelerating an M5? Come on!

I know that this is the first quick-ish car a lot of people will have owned, and even basic ones have good shove from nothing up to about 20 mph and good pedal response, but let’s not get carried away!

Even the i4 m50 (which is an actually fast EV) can’t beat the M3 off the line, let alone an M5.

What I have found myself is that due to the lack of noise, wheelspin and attention being drawn, it is a lot more tempting the deploy the full berries for launches into small gaps.

2023 BMW i4 EV: 3.7 seconds

2022 M3 xDrive Sedan/M3 Competition Sedan/M3 Sedan: 0-60 mph in 3.4 seconds/3.8 seconds/4.1 seconds

Taken from BMW themselves!

Blimey… the i4 is fast isn’t it!

DrP

Similar to a Honda CBR650R motorbike then 😯

DrP

Taken from BMW themselves!

Blimey… the i4 is fast isn’t it!

DrP

That figure you have bolded is comparing AWD i4 to RWD M3, but yes, the i4 M50 is properly quick.

Since we were talking originally about the M5, I think it’s worth reiterating, the M5 is half a second faster to 60 than the i4. Even looking at 0-30mph which is the EVs domain, it’s just madness comparing something like an eNiro to the M5, it takes less than half the time to get to that speed.

Really? A ‘basic ev’ out accelerating an M5? Come on!

Acceleration is the wrong metric. A basic EV has a drivetrain that is quieter, smoother and more responsive than almost any luxury ICE car except billionaire spec Rolls Royce or Bentleys.

That’s why I’ll never go back to ICE. A bit of poke is just a rarely used added bonus.

I think on the acceleration front it’s the zero to 40 mph type sections where the EVs outweigh ICE cars, as it’s all just so instant.

My low powered 100kw Corsa e has a similar 0-60mph time as most 150kw EVs. Weight/mass probably evens it out compared to cars with larger batteries and more powerful motors?

I think the car makers are slowing down most mid range cars at the moment.

I think on the acceleration front it’s the zero to 40 mph type sections where the EVs outweigh ICE cars, as it’s all just so instant.

Not even as far as 40MPH TBH.
0-50kph. Instant response, no need to press buttons, get into launch mode. Rev the engine up, hold it against the brakes. Wait for the lights to change. THEN you can go.

Just stamp on the pedal. And you’ve got all of it already.

@Dickyboy.  Yeah, that’s always my thought on a car’s 0-60, the sort of acceleration on a 15yr old commuter motorbike

That figure you have bolded is comparing AWD i4 to RWD M3, but yes, the i4 M50 is properly quick.

Since we were talking originally about the M5, I think it’s worth reiterating, the M5 is half a second faster to 60 than the i4. Even looking at 0-30mph which is the EVs domain, it’s just madness comparing something like an eNiro to the M5, it takes less than half the time to get to that speed.

BTW – I wasn’t trying to argue or disprove – i’ve no idea about the different models/AWD etc etc… I jsut wanted to have a peek at then was like “wow… those cars (EV and ICE) are ruddy fast!

DrP

cripes

I’m not really a car person, so my understanding of ‘fast car’ starts and ends with the 1988 Top Trumps ‘Supercars’ set.

But it’s pretty mad to think that a middle class IT salary-sacrifice jobby these days pisses all over a Ferrari F40 from 0-60 😲

It’s the instant acceleration at low speeds that is the differentiator. My Leaf is slower than my ICE to 60, but in the ICE you have to select the right gear then wait for the power to build – which it does, all the way to 150mph. But that takes time, it’s quite a different experience than the sudden torque explosion that you get in the Leaf. You can’t get that in the ICE even though it is quicker to 60.

But it’s pretty mad to think that a middle class IT salary-sacrifice jobby these days pisses all over a Ferrari F40 from 0-60

Yup..and you don’t even need to be ‘good’ at driving (well timed shifts, proper revs at takeoff etc), you just need a right foot that can plantarflex!

DrP

The thing with EV acceleration is – it’s instantly “switches on” max acceleration.
With an ICE, even a fast one like an M3 or M5 there’s some down shifting, boost building, building revs into into the power band etc unless you’re using launch control or sitting at 4-5K RPM.

So – when an ICE and EV are compared over a “race” such as a 0-60 etc, a broadly similar ICE (lets say an M3 vs an i4) appears quite quick. But in the real world, where a “quick squirt” of acceleration is what’s actually needed the EV leaves the ICE for dead as by the time the ICE has got it’s ducks in a row and built up torque the EV has already gone.

Back in the real world….
I’ve got a RWD i4 – on paper it’s 5.7 sec 0-60. I’ve recently had a 530D and 530e as loan cars for a week each – both also mid 5 secs to 60. They both felt dog slow compared to the i4. Sure they went quite quick once they’d built up a head of steam so to speak but there was a definite waiting period on both.

The upshot of all this is that there’s a bit of a “are you sure you want to….?” period in an ICE whereas with the EV by the time you’ve had a chance to think you’re already gone.

Here’s an example – a carwow drag race video between an i4 M50 and an M3 competition. From a standing start they’re really quite similar up to 100MPH ish, but check out the rolling races which are more like real-world usage. The i4 leaves the M3 for dead in both of those. On the 30MPH rolling race the M3 doesn’t catch the M3 until they hit 130MPH so in any vaguely legal or feasible real world situation the i4 is significantly quicker.

it’s pretty mad to think that a middle class IT salary-sacrifice jobby these days pisses all over a Ferrari F40 from 0-60

Perhaps but let’s be honest, we all know where we’d rather be sitting.

In the Tesla. I know I don’t fit in an F40 😀

In the Tesla. I know I don’t fit in an F40 😀

Not sure what has more bits falling off it though?
Most of the Teslas i’ve driven seem to conform to 1980’s build/fit and finish standards…

Though at least it’s not like sitting in a carbon fibre food processor.

There are other factors. There’s a traffic light controlled roundabout near me where you wait at the last set of lights then you go straight into the M4 sliproad which is two lane. It’s great to accelerate hard there in the Merc and power up the sliproad, however you can’t really do this in the Leaf as it gets pretty interesting putting that much torque down when steering lock is applied. And my Merc isn’t even a particularly sporty one.

Video shows what a really quick electric car does compared to a really quick petrol car (M5 comp). Mind blowingly quick

Steering the thread back to more mainstream cars after the recent high performance posts….

I have recently put down a deposit on a 2021 Hyundai Kona to complement the Renault Zoe that we have been running for several years. The Zoe is a great car, really happy with it, however it is not able to accept roof rack or tow bar both of which the Kona can. That and 50% more range should be good.

I sold my small ICE campervan recently so this has pretty much completed the energy journey that I have been on since 2015 when solar panels were fitted to the house, followed by first EV, heat pump and battery. The only fossil fuel burning items now in the house are a couple of small camping stoves, very small in the grand scheme of life.

I am really looking forward to having a more capable EV for weekend trips as driving ICE with manual transmission has really felt old fashioned in recent years.

I’ve kept my Skoda Roomster on standby for roof rack, towing and tip runs. The Corsa e will now do the majority of the miles for big trips.

In a few years I should be able to replace the Roomster with an ev with a roof rack, towbar and ev 2 home capability in some form that will help pay for itself whilst parked at home.

dipping my toe shortly…..into public charging points….

Have had my EV (i4) since August and love it, all charging has been at home on Intelligent Octopus which works well.

Heading for a week in Northumberland in a couple of weeks, staying near Lucker, and will need to pick up a few charges whilst there. Its around 125 miles from home to the cottage we are staying in, so will arrive with 65% plus, and will be out and about every day.  ZapMap shows loads of chargers, I don’t have any charging subscriptions (apart from ChargePlaceScotland) so hoping that my phone and credit card get me access where required…

I have recently put down a deposit on a 2021 Hyundai Kona

can you give some feedback in a few weeks, especially regarding boot space for 2 bikes. it a possibility for me, but I’d sort of dismissed it as too small in the boot.

BAnana, I can fit 2 road bikes or HT MTBs into the Zoe with front wheels removed. This is only possible as I am short!

For normal size humans of FS bikes this may not work.

Kona boot is similar to Zoe, if my experience is any different I will post an update.

@IainC IMO easiest option (if you have the cable) is to charge at the cottage each night and reimburse the owner. Otherwise I’d download their app and set up an account with Tesla and use the superchargers near Lucker on the A1 (that’s the best guarantee of always being able to get a charge).

@littledave ok cheers. I’m hoping to buy something similar size boot to ID3 I currently have

B.A.NanaFree Member

@IainC IMO easiest option (if you have the cable) is to charge at the cottage each night and reimburse the owner.

They offer that to guests, but at a flat cost of £20 a day, and I’m presuming it’s a granny charger rather than a 7kwh one, so pretty poor value I reckon.

I saw on Zapmap that the nearby services have a bank of Tesla chargers, can they be used just with a credit card to access and pay or do I need the Tesla App ?

We measured up a kona when we test drove it and the boot size is remarkably similar to our existing fiesta. Niro is the same powertrain but the bike carrying ability looked significantly better.

@IainC you can only use the app, however, once you’ve set up an account I assume it’s just plug and charge (there’s no buttons to press etc), certainly was with the tesla I used to have. I haven’t used them with my ID3, but someone on here will know the non Tesla process or you can google it. they’re 250kw chargers so should be pretty fast with your i4

dipping my toe shortly…..into public charging points…

All the ones I’ve been to have just been a case of using your debit card on the charger. It’s worth researching where the nearest DC rapid chargers are (100kW+) as it’s usually worth driving to one if the nearest fast charger isn’t in walking distance of where you’re staying. If there’s  CCS compatible Tesla superchargers nearby as then it’s worth registering an account and d/ling their app.