The Dissolution of the Union started today….

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  • The Dissolution of the Union started today….
  • cynic-al
    Member

    I’m not sure this will change things significantly

    dovebiker
    Member

    Don’t attribute to malice anything that could equally be attributed to stupidity and incompetence….

    bikebouy
    Member

    Good for them, anyone who stands for this current Tory incompetence and inbread lying is all good in my book.

    TheBrick
    Member

    Rest of world working closet together to achieve things, we seem intent on tearing apart to isolation.

    tjagain
    Member

    its just another bit of evidence of the lack of respect from Westminster and another little bit of the foundations of the union cut away.

    Premier Icon madhouse
    Subscriber

    Only when it’s too late will they realise that rather than stand around bickering they need to be working together to find a solution.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    madhouse

    Only when it’s too late will they realise that rather than stand around bickering they need to be working together to find a solution.

    Independent small countries work better than fractured big groups of countries.

    Premier Icon eddiebaby
    Subscriber

    That’s why we need Brexit surely? 😀

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    Only when it’s too late will they realise that rather than stand around bickering they need to be working together to find a solution.

    This only works if one of the sides isn’t doing all it can to undermine the other.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    eddiebaby

    That’s why we need Brexit surely?

    Got no problem with that. Any country that voted for Brexit should get it.

    Any country that voted against it should stay in the EU. Scotland voted overwhelmingly to stay.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Subscriber

    Any country that voted against it should stay in the EU. Scotland voted overwhelmingly to stay.

    It was a UK vote. You might as well argue that Bristol should stay in the EU.

    belfastflyer
    Member

    As someone who voted remain and lives in NI… I’m all for this.

    Plus, since a tory mp told an snp MP to go kill himself yesterday during the debate… tories are playing right into the SNPs hands.

    P-Jay
    Member

    With this sort of thing happening and even British / Protestant North Irish people talking about being better off in an Unified Ireland within the EU, you have to ask how long we can keep this up?

    If you think this is bad, wait until the Scots, North English, Welsh and Northern Irish feel when they work out how little of a **** Westminster gives about them – should have paid more attention to those little blue starred flags on the bottom of every new infrastructure project outside of the South East over the last 50 years or so.

    TheBrick
    Member

    Can we split England up into regions, intact sub regions too? If we are splitting the union is make m no sense to keep England as one unit.

    Ha Ha ..

    Manufactured controversy.

    The SNP MPs were actually due to ask questions (and may have been granted a debate on the effect devolved assemblies) but walked out and denied themselves the chance to be involved on behalf of their constituents for the sake of a stunt.

    I’m no brexiteer, but the SNP playing their “Stay as part of a bigger market (unless its the UK)” games can go hang.

    A few weeks ago the SNP Growth Commission Report (after its massively delayed publication)  basically accepted the cost of an independent Scotland being a loss of 13Bn a year, massive austerity, and 10 to 25 years outside the EU to put it right (under the best growth scenarios).

    In other words brexit on steroids.

    As they now agree with the long standing economic arguments of “project fear”, expect more stunts, distraction and obfuscation.

    SNP and Tories, 2 balls in the same nationalist nutsack.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    The Brick

    Can we split England up into regions, intact sub regions too? If we are splitting the union is make m no sense to keep England as one unit.

    Why not? It’s your country. It doesn’t belong to the aristocracy or the non-dom billionaires.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    ransos

    It was a UK vote. You might as well argue that Bristol should stay in the EU.

    Excuse my ignorance of English geography.

    I thought Bristol was a city in England, not a country signatory to the Treaty of Union.

    It may be worth your while reading it, especially as it is going to be in the news a bit more often in the next few weeks…

    Premier Icon ransos
    Subscriber

    I thought Bristol was a city in England, not a country signatory to the Treaty of Union.

    Scotland is not a nation state. The UK is. It’s your own fault, too.

    frozenwhite
    Member

    The SNP MPs were actually due to ask questions (and may have been granted a debate on the effect devolved assemblies) but walked out and denied themselves the chance to be involved on behalf of their constituents for the sake of a stunt.

    I’m sure you are well aware of this but a motion to sit in private normally breaks up pm questions as it needs voted on immediately
    Bercow wouldn’t allow it and said the vote would be after questions. That’s why Blackford refused to sit

    Premier Icon grumpysculler
    Subscriber

    The only thing Ian Blackford acheived was making sure his debate on devolution didn’t get heard. He was told to wait until the end of PMQs, at which time he could have his say but chose not to. He made a headline, instead of making progress.

    Yesterday was pish, but the SNP aren’t helping. And both the SNP (in Holyrood) and Labour (in Holyrood and Westminster) have previously programmed in short debates to prevent proper discussion on major issues so it is a bit of pot calling kettle black. Perhaps it is the prerogative of goverment to avoid awkward questions?

    brakes
    Member

    it’s just a flipping pantomime. Bercow is Widow Twankey.

    sbob
    Member

    So an MP got kicked out for repeatedly ignoring the Speaker of the House.

    This is another nationalist straw clutching example isn’t it?

    “My dog farted, quick dissolve the union!”

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    So, if the SNP withdraw their MPs permanently, May doesn’t need the DUP so can put the customs border in the Irish Sea. With that in place, trade between the NI and Eire will be more closely aligned than with RUK and a United Ireland could be closer to reality.

    TheBrick
    Member

    Why not? It’s your country. It doesn’t belong to the aristocracy or the non-dom billionaires.

    Glad you have a wicked sense of humour.

    poly
    Member

    I think you’ll find the history books will record it quite a bit earlier than this.  Perhaps the day the people of the UK made clear their different views on political unions – almost exactly 2 yrs ago.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
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    ransos

    Scotland is not a nation state. The UK is. It’s your own fault, too.

    Again, read the Act of Union. I’ll quote someone who can say it better than me…

    “The tenets the 1707 Act of Union are as plain as the nose on your face – admittedly part of your anatomy difficult to see from where your eyes sit, unless viewed in a mirror.

    The Act states unequivocally:

    … “Two Nations”.

    It does not state in any manner, way or form that two nations shall become one and lose identity, junk their name, act as one in all instances, indistinguishable one from another.

    There is nothing in the Act about one nation taking second place, being the poorer nation and remaining so, or having no place in world affairs.

    Nor does the Act contain caveats that one nation shall control all power over the other. It makes clear the two sovereign nations shall remain as before in everything but trade, banking, and the rights of peers. Gross inequality grew out of decisions resting in one parliament, one nation monopolising voting numbers. And in creeping integration.

    I repeat: it does not legislate that the greater the population in number, the greater the say in domestic affairs, and all international political matters….”

    Premier Icon epicyclo
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    TheBrick

    Glad you have a wicked sense of humour.

    🙂

    But believe it or not you do have the power, but only if you unite and get behind a movement to enforce it.

    cynic-al
    Member

    From https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aosp/1707/7/contents

    That the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England shall upon the first day of May next ensuing the date hereof and forever after be United into One Kingdom…

    sbob
    Member

    It does not state in any manner, way or form that two nations shall become one and lose identity, junk their name, act as one in all instances, indistinguishable one from another.

    Cough,

    Article 1 states “That the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England, shall upon the 1st May next ensuing the date hereof, and forever after, be United into One Kingdom by the Name of Great Britain.

    sbob
    Member

    Foreseeing the obvious it doesn’t mention helicopters either.

    cynic-al
    Member

    Need to be quicker with your big hitting sbob

    frozenwhite
    Member

    The only thing Ian Blackford acheived was making sure his debate on devolution didn’t get heard. He was told to wait until the end of PMQs, at which time he could have his say but chose not to. He made a headline, instead of making progress.

    Yesterday was pish, but the SNP aren’t helping. And both the SNP (in Holyrood) and Labour (in Holyrood and Westminster) have previously programmed in short debates to prevent proper discussion on major issues so it is a bit of pot calling kettle black. Perhaps it is the prerogative of goverment to avoid awkward questions?

    The full point of asking for a a motion to sit in private is to break up pm questions as it needs voted on immediately. Bercow didn’t follow the rules as he should have therefor they walked out

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    tactical flounces get results!

    look at yesterdays resignation vs the 5 non-resignations of eternally impotent david davis

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/the-man-who-brought-a-parliament-back-to-scotland-1.1109328

    Premier Icon bigjim
    Subscriber

    I doubt this is the start of their new campaign but if it is I would rather they used words not panto, this isn’t america

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    So, is England still a country…?

    sbob
    Member

    Need to be quicker with your big hitting sbob

    I was busy applying aloe to my mangina, sensei.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    I think you folks are confusing Kingdoms with nations.

    Take a look at how the UK describes itself in its UN membership. I don’t have the reference to hand, but I think you’ll find it describes itself as 2 countries or nations, a principality and a province (or something very similar, but not as a unitary state).

    Also the UK came about as a treaty between 2 sovereign countries, and it is the Treaty that counts. The Acts of Union are the housekeeping to implement it, just as there were various acts to implement the membership of the EU.

    Treaties are capable of being dissolved.

    Many Scots want that approach because the Treaty has been breached many times and the latest episodes are the last straw. If it wants to go that way presumably the Scottish govt will either run an internal referendum, or an election on those grounds.

    We do not need England’s permission to dissolve the Treaty (as in England, the other party to it).

    cynic-al
    Member

    epicyclo

    Also the UK came about as a treaty between 2 sovereign countries

    What about Wales, Ireland and now NI?

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