The FC aren’t an obstruction here

Actually they are.

They want full control of everything and they won’t accept a good idea from anyone else. Look at the new cafe at GT…9million quid for that…the money also got all property in the forest and area (apart from hotel at entrance)…they then spent a small mountain on acquiring the land to the farm to the south East.

It was for control…now no-one else can offer services immediately on-line…and the FC can just keep trickling out the usual stories of no money (I don’t not believe that but it isn’t as grim as they state).

The FC have made several monumentally bad decisions and refuse to admit and take help to fix it.

Tourism is a small part in a much larger machine now…but that is all the FC want to focus on.

And what does anything there have to do with AimUP, or the suggestion that they’re obstructing it?

I’d much prefer they spent the money on something like a (or multiple )trans-scotland mtb route (s).

West Highland Way and Southern Upland Way are definitely MTB-able – not specific to MTBs but more than capable of ticking those boxes.

Scotland has an enviable position of having plenty mountain biking. What is appears to lack are many trail centres where MTBers are corralled into a set area and ride round in circles.

The FC have a remit for recreational use of the land that they manage (on behalf of the people) – however, I’ll go back to my previous post highlighting the fact that the FC poorly manage projects constantly – they have big prizes in sight but very poor abilities to achieve them and then maintain/manage them. They also point blank refuse to allow ‘someone’ else to step in and lead, so many people don’t.

We don’t really need trail centre, perhaps better sign posting for the local stuff and the connecting bits between the local areas – this then requires the MTBers to be properly responsible for themselves – you know, like it was in ‘the olden days’ before trail centres, where you needed to be self-sufficient, capable of reading maps, fixing bikes and making a judgement call on whether or not it was worth the effort/time/risk to do another area against daylight/weather/conditions/etc.

We have been spoilt and we are still complaining about how ‘bad’ we have it…I pay the parking when I use a trail centre (about 4 times a year) – I grudge paying it as (like many), I don’t believe the money is actually used for trail upkeep or development (although I’m very much aware there are massive running costs to keep the FC machine oiled and running) – but I pay nonetheless as it needs done.

Sorry, late to this thread and I’m now reading the other posts and chipping in – suspect my comments have already been discussed to death, but I’m feeling better that I’ve been able to add to the pile.

I appreciate that people have put in a lot of graft and time into this project. But is anyone really surprised that this isn’t going to happen? It always seemed extremely optimistic to me that the funds for this would ever be forthcoming. It may be a visionary idea, but someone has to pay for it.

IMO- it was a moonshot. But it’s really important to remember that moonshots do happen. These projects can catch imagination, Nevis Range frinstance made ****-all financial sense. So it’s wrong to beancount it and say “this was never going to happen”. I hate that these conversations keep becoming about the Peel but it’s a perfect example of one thing- it doesn’t have to make sense.

I asked up the page but I think the really important question is, is there a “what next”? IMO, there was nothing in the scheme that was actually dependent on the lift, and in some ways it was a millstone. It gave it a huge vision and it did enable some wider access stuff but the idea that there’d be a stream of pensioners going up to the top of plora rig to look at the mud and crappy forestry spruce seemed a bit of a reach anyway…

So, what was the true value of the permanent uplift? Propaganda? A rallying point? A USP? Is there any will to carry on with… Innerleithen V2. Bikeparkscotland. Whatever it may be.

I just struggle with the idea that the organisers could point to BPW as an example of a success story, but still be left feeling that a permanent uplift is essential. It proves the case for a revitalised bike venue but it also proves you can do it with buses.

4 things-
A wider range of trails
A better uplift, that goes to the top
A cafe/centre- even something basic. A couple of dirty portakabins with wobbly seats 😉
A feeling that it’s for everyone not just downhillers.

All good points and questions…I’m asking those in my head as well as surely it isn’t all dead now.

I hate that these conversations keep becoming about the Peel but it’s a perfect example of one thing- it doesn’t have to make sense.

I think the Peel was supposed to make sense.
While I accept that once in a while this sort of thing comes off, the moonshot is an exception to the rule. For every successful launch there are far more schemes which never ever got off the ground. Not to mention those that turned into a white elephant…

I’d much prefer they spent the money on something like a (or multiple )trans-scotland mtb route (s).

West Highland Way and Southern Upland Way are definitely MTB-able – not specific to MTBs but more than capable of ticking those boxes.

I don’t think you could promote the SUW as being suitable for a trans-scotland bike route. Huge sections of the western part are just way too boggy and not suitable for bikes. The other problem here is that the route isn’t well serviced by public transport which reduces your options for where you can start/stop sections.

Regarding the WHW, as a whole it is much better but could do with something done with the northern Loch Lomond section as the hike a bike is just not pleasant. I think the main obstacle on this route is the sheer number of walkers who use it – a way would need be found to manage this.

I’d love both of these routes to become more bike friendly but there would be a great deal of investment needed, particularly on the SUW to make them more appealing.

Keep the discussion going; there is an impending press release I am led to believe that will outline the next workstrands and a public meeting in the near future that your attendance, points and discussion will be much needed and appreciated.

AimUp response to council press release: here

Council press release (note no plan, just words such as ‘continue’, and announcing that more holiday cottages is the answer to our already under-filled local accommodation providers): here

I can’t look at facebook at work, is your link the same as the “Support the Innerleithen Uplift” facebook page that wrote about it this morning?

I’m hesitant to comment much because emotions seem to be running high and I’m likely to know or meet some of the people involved as I ride down there often, and don’t want to get smacked in the chops!

To be honest I think you have to accept there is just no public money spare, maybe ten years ago there would have been, but at the moment there isn’t even the money to maintain what trails have already been built, simple as that.

MTBers have also shown that they can build their own top class trails with no input from anyone, OK maybe not the fully constructed DH trails, but look at the number of ‘enthusiast’ mtbers using the unofficial trails in the tweed valley now compared to marked trails. Apart from the dedicated DH riders, even if some new trails were built, how many people would pay to ride them when there are 40 odd amazing unofficial trails for free?

I do wonder if the tone of things is putting people off too, trying to win over organisations when everyone online is slagging them off isn’t going to get things anywhere. Potential investors will be looking for positivity, not PR liability.

I suspect if the proposal was for glentress it might be easier to attract private investment due to the infrastructure already in place there.

Anyway, just some garbled pre-coffee thoughts. Is there any info online about aimup plan and proposal that isn’t on facebook?

I’ve not found a website or anything detailed online about what AIMUp is proposing but have you seen this?

http://www.porthillsleisure.nz/christchurch-adventure-park/

This seems like the way to approach things, instead of going to people and saying “we want to do this on your land and you and other people to give us it/money for it” , saying “we’ll lease your land and set up a business that does all these things”

I’m not sure exactly what AIMUp’s £5.5 million is proposing to deliver in comparison, but all those things at Christchurch, which is a huge resort development, are coming in at ~£9.6 million with only a fraction of that coming from public funds.

Again is there a website or something with details of the proposed AIMUp development and trails?

Original plan I saw for Aim-Up was for new Green, Blue and Red trails and renovating the DH trails and the funicular railway uplift.
Also a new Café and Carpark further up the hill so as to get away from the flooding in the present carpark.
This was all on the net I just can’t remember where. It really looked good on paper.

Cool ta. All I know is for the funi railway uplift. Must be some proposal document/website for it.

, relative to attracting walkers or others users who require little in the way of infrastructure.

This is the game now. Dog walkers are by far the largest group who access the countryside, don’t walk very far and will pay for parking

So you get numbers and income which matters far more than supporting a niche sport with PITA keyboard warriors and who ignore stay off signs when new trails are being built ala Gisburn at the moment

I was at Whinlater for a ride a couple of weeks ago, one trail closed and I’m old and fat and only saw no more than 10 people on bikes on a Sunday late morning. Loads of dog walkers though.

To add another view to that comment though (not that there’s anything wrong with it) I went to Whinlatter for the first time Good Friday, and the place was rammed with MTBers. Couldn’t move without running one over. Its ok though, I only hit half a dozen or so.

This is the game now. Dog walkers are by far the largest group who access the countryside, don’t walk very far and will pay for parking

So you get numbers and income which matters far more than supporting a niche sport with PITA keyboard warriors and who ignore stay off signs when new trails are being built ala Gisburn at the moment

Hmm, dog walkers seem like a good idea, but they don’t tend to travel far from home, the ones you see are mainly fairly local, and while they may buy a cup of tea and cake, they are not staying in local hotels and eating at local pubs.

The economic case for MTB trail centres was built on this, as a way to bring money into rural economies, you simply aren’t going to get that from dog walkers.

I was at Whinlater for a ride a couple of weeks ago, one trail closed and I’m old and fat and only saw no more than 10 people on bikes on a Sunday late morning. Loads of dog walkers though.

Yeah, but a trail centre in the lakes isnt ideal to take numbers/interest from. With all the amazing riding round there, why anyone would go to whinlatter is baffling.

why anyone would go to whinlatter is baffling.

Because it’s raining?

I happened to discuss it with somebody who was involved with the start-up funding of a rather large visitor attraction elsewhere, and he said it would be a perfectly valid figure for investment purposes. Certainly high enough for him to be very interested in finding out out more about AIMup, but given nobody ever contacted him, he assumed those running the project weren’t that serious about it…

Well maybe you could have mentioned his interest to somebody. No wonder these things don’t happen, it’s not because it’s some dream that can’t happen it’s because people are tools with their own agendas and would rather sit on useful information and wait for somebody to come and beg them to help. 🙄

Tom. Thanks for trying! These things take a huge amount of energy and time. I really feel for you as it hasn’t worked out – but unfortunately some people can’t see what this could do. Even more unfortunately – they have a lot of influence.

J