^ biodiversity is like Jenga, except we most often remove blocks unintentionally

https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog30/node/398

We’re entering a new era where the average human gives a lot less thought and action to the health of the bee population than to the more immediate concerns of what’s on Netflix or trending as a meme/celeb etc?

Discuss

A virus absolutely doesn’t care – viruses and bacteria aren’t reprimanding us for the practices of food markets in china

^ This is no doubt true, but could be equally misleading in terms of risk-assessment. We modern humans aren’t particularly (philosophically) holistic so although we anthropomorphise and imagine all kinds of ‘supernatural forces’ at work keeping checks and balances, we often fail to recognise the parable. Baby with bathwater and all that. It seems that we stubbornly (egotistically?) lurch from superstition to a kind of fatalistic ‘rational’ nihilism with no resting place between.

The sheer volume of people passing through and working in the markets and the “suboptimal hygienic conditions inherently represent an increased risk for amplification of virus.” The humid, chilled air at markets may provide an environment in which viruses thrive.

So no, not literally ‘reprimanded‘. But a smack is a smack.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/source-beijing-s-big-new-covid-19-outbreak-still-mystery

So this virus began with bats or perhaps pangolins. Neither of which us Brits are that bothered with. But what if a new disease used a cat / dog / rabbit <insert favourite pet here> vector? Would we all be calling for the abolition of pet ownership?

We don’t actually know. Bats and Pangolins are a guess. I’ve had bats in my attic for the past decade – just as likely a point for a species jump in a disease any.

We focused on the Bat / Pangolin theory at an early stage because the level of community infection wasn’t really understood and it was assumed that proximity to animals was the principle cause of infection. It was assumed that because the first cases were identified within a market that the disease was passing between animals and humans there. The rate of asymptomatic infection and transmission wasn’t understood so it wasn’t a consideration that someone perfectly well could have walked into and around that market – infected swathes of people and left – weeks before anyone fell ill.

C-19 seems to jump between species very easily – if you get c-19 the chances are your pet dog or cat will get it too – theres nothing to prove of disprove what species jump resulted in the first infections amongst humans. Early in the arrival of C-19 in New York a tiger in the zoo was diagnosed with it. Now…. I’m no David Attenborough but I’m pretty sure tigers and zoo keepers are better at the whole social distancing thing than most people – so that species jump happened very easily indeed.

Where can I find these fact-free worldviews? Can you buy them from Amazon? I’ve had enough of mine.

the causes of the virus, i.e. intensive farming and agriculture,

eh, not so much. But even if it did, removing agriculture in the interests of preventing some possible virus seems… difficult

Last I heard (and I’ll admit my attention has been drifting lately) was that the original timeline (CV19 “Originating” somewhere in Wuhan province Circa Oct/Nov 2019?) is under question as a couple of European cities have reported finding traces in Sewage samples taken as far back as Feb/March 2019?…

I don’t think the question of how the Virus came to be is being ignored as such I just don’t think the evidence gathering/analysis is yet complete. It’s being worked on around the world, as part of the efforts to understand and it and in turn devise more effective treatments.

I think the OP is guilty (as are many) of ascribing their own pet issues as part of the “cause” for CV19. Perhaps it’s better not to engage in heavily biased speculation at this point, and concentrate instead on managing the current situation.

All any mainstream meeja questioning/political “attention” of the topic will achieve right now, is unnecessary pressure on those doing the investigative science to “Provide answers” and not necessarily correct answers… Just let them work.

I think the OP is guilty (as are many) of ascribing their own pet issues as part of the “cause” for CV19.

Such as thinly veiled racism. It’s come from those “dirty” Chinese who were eating bats, remember. Any opportunity. Meanwhile, Trumpalumpa insists on calling it “the Chinese virus” and his supporters argue that “it comes from China, so what’s the problem?” whilst neatly ignoring the fact that it has an official name and it’s not that so it rather draws into question your motives for not using it.

(I’m probably going to regret writing that, no doubt it’ll be taken out of context and splashed all over a certain someone’s Twitter account presenting it as my opinion and asserting I’m saying the complete opposite of what I’ve just said, but hey ho.)

C-19 seems to jump between species very easily – if you get c-19 the chances are your pet dog or cat will get it too

That being the case, is there not a risk that your cat can go out, catch cat aids COV19 and bring it back into the house to infect everyone else?

Should I stop licking my cat?

Wow, that post is real a low point, even by your standards Couger.

I don’t think the question of how the Virus came to be is being ignored as such I just don’t think the evidence gathering/analysis is yet complete. It’s being worked on around the world, as part of the efforts to understand and it and in turn devise more effective treatments.

SARS, MERS, Avian Flu, Swine flu, BSE, Ebola, etc. etc, I don’t think I’m projecting at all. Covid is a warning shot but it seems that no one wants to listen.

“Pandemics such as coronavirus are the result of humanity’s destruction of nature, according to leaders at the UN, WHO and WWF International, and the world has been ignoring this stark reality for decades.

We have seen many diseases emerge over the years, such as Zika, Aids, Sars and Ebola and they all originated from animal populations under conditions of severe environmental pressures,” said Elizabeth Maruma Mrema, head of the UN convention on biological diversity

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/17/pandemics-destruction-nature-un-who-legislation-trade-green-recovery

“Coronavirus is a warning to us to mend our broken relationship with nature”. Marco Lambertini is director general of WWF International

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/17/coronavirus-warning-broken-relationship-nature

“Coronavirus: world treating symptoms, not cause of pandemics, says UN:

The world is treating the health and economic symptoms of the coronavirus pandemic but not the environmental cause, according to the authors of a UN report. As a result, a steady stream of diseases can be expected to jump from animals to humans in coming years, they say.

The number of such “zoonotic” epidemics is rising, from Ebola to Sars to West Nile virus and Rift Valley fever, with the root cause being the destruction of nature by humans and the growing demand for meat, the report says.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/06/coronavirus-world-treating-symptoms-not-cause-pandemics-un-report

“‘We did it to ourselves’: scientist says intrusion into nature led to pandemic:

The vast illegal wildlife trade and humanity’s excessive intrusion into nature is to blame for the coronavirus pandemic, according to a leading US scientist who says “this is not nature’s revenge, we did it to ourselves”.

Scientists are discovering two to four new viruses are created every year as a result of human infringement on the natural world, and any one of those could turn into a pandemic, according to Thomas Lovejoy, who coined the term “biological diversity” in 1980 and is often referred to as the godfather of biodiversity.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/08/human-impact-on-wildlife-to-blame-for-spread-of-viruses-says-study-aoe

“Promiscuous treatment of nature’ will lead to more pandemics – scientists:

Humanity’s “promiscuous treatment of nature” needs to change or there will be more deadly pandemics such as Covid-19, warn scientists who have analysed the link between viruses, wildlife and habitat destruction.”

“Agriculture and overuse greater threats to wildlife than climate change – study:

It found that 6,241 (72%) of the studied species were affected by overexploitation – logging, hunting, fishing or gathering species from the wild at rates that cannot be compensated for by reproduction or regrowth.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/10/agriculture-and-overuse-greater-threats-to-wildlife-than-climate-change-study

The adjustments we have to make to our lifestyles would not be painful, yet if we do not, the consequences could be fatal. I just don’t get it. But it seems people don’t know and don’t want to know.

I don’t think I’m projecting at all

But then post the views of biodiversity and agriculture experts? Who no doubt have been campaigning to curtail intensive agriculture for years.

I’m not saying they’ve written isn’t true, it might be – but when discussing the origins of a virus, “scientist” isn’t really a helpful measure of a persons expertise. The only person who’s option counts is an epidemiologist. My understanding is that we don’t really have any idea where this new virus has come from yet, or how it jumped species – so anybody that writes a report saying they do, warrants scrutiny re: their qualifications and motivation.

Heard somebody on tv yesterday give oxygen to the “made in a lab” theory ffs. And given the clusters we are seeing in meatpacking plants, it’s possible that the wet market in Wuhan wasn’t actually the primary source…. just a cluster of cases.

I happen to agree with you, I think we need to have a much wider discussion about how to address the issue of emerging viruses at their source. But the time to do that is when we know what the source is.

But then post the views of biodiversity and agriculture experts?

An epidemiologist will tell you how the virus ‘jumped’ from one species to another. Biodiversity and agricultural experts will tell you why. I think we desperately need to listen to both.