- This topic has 78 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by squirrelking.
-
The Dalston e-bike fatal collision
-
imnotverygoodFull Member
Have we done this?
https://road.cc/content/news/267863-london-e-bike-rider-court-accused-causing-death-pedestrian-dangerous-driving
Shows the risks of hacking your e-bikeescrsFree MemberThey don’t mention the bike being hacked, all they say is
In this case the evidence suggests it was traveling in excess of the road limit and the limit for the bike
So in excess of the road limit means he was doing more than the speed limit (no idea if its a 20 or 30mph limit)
Not sure what they mean by limit of the bike as if un hacked it can still be pedaled past the 15.5mph cut off and give no assistance which is perfectly legal
As they say evidence suggests then i assume they have found a hack on the bike but havent mentioned it
imnotverygoodFull MemberSo in excess of the road limit means he was doing more than the speed limit (no idea if its a 20 or 30mph limit)
There is no speed limit for bikes. Only a limit to electric assistance.
EDIT prosecutor doesn’t know what he is talking about unless he has been misquoted.Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition
Latest Singletrack VideosFresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...imnotverygoodFull MemberThe fact that he is being done for being unlicensed & uninsured implies the bike is hacked because you don’t need either of those things if you are below the 250w/15.5 mph limits
a11yFull MemberThat’s what I read it as too. Sounds like it was over 250w/15.5mph limited.
ajajFree MemberThe charges as reported by road.cc are all motorcycle ones, not cycling ones. So the implication is that the prosecution believe it was unrestricted. Other news reports say that the Police recovered the bike so should be easy to prove if it was modified.
I think you’d struggle to make 30mph on Kingsland high street by pedal power alone.
shindiggyFree MemberPlaying devil’s advocate, the fact that it was an ebike and possibly hacked may not of contributed anything to the death of the victim (depending on spee
d of idiot in bike), but of course the media will spin any story to make cyclist public enemy number one.All for a strong sentence, they just need to remember the same rule book applies to motorist too which is often miraculously forg.
seosamh77Free MemberI don’t think it matters what the bike was. The dafty rode into and killed someone. I think that’s the major issue here…
It shows you the risks of being a complete trumpet…
nobbingsfordFull MemberReading the article it seems the poor lady may have run out into the road whilst the lights were on green for traffic. If that’s the case then I guess the actual collusion was caused by her disobeying the pedestrian signal.
Certainly in no way excuses the guy running off afterwards.
revs1972Free MemberExactly, regardless of why and how it happened, shes still lying in the road whilst hes off on his toes.
What sort of person does that.kerleyFree MemberWhat sort of person does that.
Somebody who doesn’t give a shit about other people. You will find quite a few of them in this country…
trail_ratFree MemberExactly, regardless of why and how it happened, shes still lying in the road whilst hes off on his toes.
What sort of person does that.Often Someone with a guilty conscience for being caught on a chipped e bike and getting the book thrown at him. Like habitual speeders and drink drivers who in their mind see it as a victimless crime.
ossifyFull MemberThere is no speed limit for bikes. Only a limit to electric assistance.
EDIT prosecutor doesn’t know what he is talking about unless he has been misquoted.Well presumably if it was over the limit for electric assistance then it’s no longer classed as a bike and the speed limit would apply.
twowheelsFree Member[Original thread https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/killer-ebiker/ ]
Yeah I read the article as saying the bike isn’t legal too but “the evidence suggests” wording is interesting.
It’s a 20mph road. Assuming the video was in real time I had estimated he was doing ~25mph. Back then, never having ridden an e-bike, I thought that was easily doable under pedal power even with the motor drag and weight. Now I am less sure but…
I am really curious if they’ve actually examined the bike and found a chip/whatever or the prosecution merely assert he must have chipped it to be going that fast.
bigyimFree MemberLooking at the CCTV footage does anyone else think it looks like he’s not pedalling?
winstonFree MemberWhilst initially looking at this thread I wasn’t logged in. The advertising in it presented me with an ebike with a twist grip throttle capable of 32kmh without the need to pedal.
It’s hardly surprising incidents like this occur and they will only get more common when the bikes are out there to buy without any real corresponding info on their legality. In the Netherlands there are two clearly defined categories of ebike with the faster variety or Speedbike needing a mandatory CBT style test, helmet and license.
natrixFree MemberHmm, if he’d been driving a car and a pedestrian (or a cyclist) ran out in front of him would he be done for death by dangerous driving??
DezBFree MemberSomebody who doesn’t give a shit about other people
I seem to remember from the reports back when this first happened that he was in shock.
And also that she did run out in front of him giving no chance to avoid her… but then, if he was on a restricted bike, he probably would’nt have been there at that moment. Same as if a car had been speeding when it hit someone.escrsFree MemberThe story says he was on a Specialized e bike, so no throttle grip, motor will only give 250 watts of power but they can be de restricted using a simple free app and on the early bikes (2016 to 2018)
Specialized didn’t put any bluetooth security on the bike so anyone passing the bike could connect to the bike and remove the speed limit!!
jonm81Full MemberHmm, if he’d been driving a car and a pedestrian (or a cyclist) ran out in front of him would he be done for death by dangerous driving??
If it was an illegally modified, unregistered and uninsured vehicle being driven by an unlicensed driver then quite possible they would have been charged with death by dangerous driving.
ajajFree Member“anyone passing the bike could connect to the bike and remove the speed limit”
I wonder if anyone’s told the defense barrister that.
antigeeFull Membersome good work by the journalist in that Sun article
The crash on Tuesday evening follows a number of fatal collisions between cyclists and pedestrians in recent years.
certainly does and that number is very small around 4 per year average for the UK compared to 400+ per year pedestrians killed in motorised vehicle collisions…I was once discussing with a women the possible routing of a shared path on the farm track that passed her property…”cyclists but they kill people all the time!”
crazy-legsFull MemberThe story says he was on a Specialized e bike, so no throttle grip, motor will only give 250 watts of power but they can be de restricted using a simple free app and on the early bikes (2016 to 2018)
Specialized didn’t put any bluetooth security on the bike so anyone passing the bike could connect to the bike and remove the speed limit!!
That has got to be bullshit surely??! De-restricting e-bikes is almost always a mechanical process. And even if it is true, no-one other than a fellow e-bike user would know about that and have the app to hand and even fewer of them would think “I know, I’ll play a hilarious practical joke on this random user by removing their speed limit”
I’m calling bollocks on that whole thing.
doomanicFull MemberIt’s possible. There are a number of third party apps that alter the wheel size to fool the controller into providing assist at higher speeds.
I can’t comment on the BT security though.boomerlivesFree Memberoff on his toes.
What sort of person does that.Probably someone who saw a cyclist knock down a pedestrian who was looking at her phone, and thought they would go to jail for a year and a half because something on their bike did not conform to the highway code?
Google Charlie Allston for source; I’m sure everyone here will recall.
escrsFree MemberThat has got to be bullshit surely??! De-restricting e-bikes is almost always a mechanical process. And even if it is true, no-one other than a fellow e-bike user would know about that and have the app to hand and even fewer of them would think “I know, I’ll play a hilarious practical joke on this random user by removing their speed limit”
I’m calling bollocks on that whole thing.
No bollocks, completely true the 2016 to 2018 and early 2019 specialized e bikes can have the speed restriction removed with an app, the 2019 onwards bikes now need a code to pair any bluetooth device with the bike but before 2018 no code was needed
I could connect to my mates bike using the specialized or any 3rd party app and play around with his settings, even shutting the bike down as he rode
Im not saying someone done that to the bike involved in the accident, im saying it is easy to remove the speed limit, so easy in fact that anyone can do it as the early bikes have no bluetooth security
Google Specialized and light blue app or Blevo app and you will find loads of threads on how to do it
ajajFree Member“have the app to hand”
Apparently it’s a generic Bluetooth app. As used by thousands of “find my keys” Bluetooth keyrings or, from the reviews, people who have lost their Bluetooth earphones.
CougarFull MemberI’m sure it’s possible.
But I don’t think it’s very likely.Indeed.
It takes me two minutes to pair up my phone with a Bluetooth speaker, and the speaker is sat on the worktop two feet away rather than passing me at 15mph. A potential hacker would have to have the app already installed, running, and be actively targeting a very specific minority of e-bikes which as we all know are hugely common on UK roads to start with. And for what, in order to go “bwahahaha I’ve made his bike slightly faster!”
Technically possible, perhaps. Likely, not while I’ve got a hole in my arse.
boomerlivesFree MemberWhat if you bought the bike second hand already hacked? Plead ignorance?
ajajFree MemberThere was a long period where the bike was abandoned on the street. Plenty of opportunity for deliberate tampering. Enough for a skilled barrister to put doubt in the minds of a jury, who knows?
jonm81Full MemberEnough for a skilled barrister to put doubt in the minds of a jury, who knows?
Or, the chap in question could accept responsibility for breaking the law and base his defence on the fact that poor lass who died walked out in front of him.
Whether the fact his vehicle was illegally being used on the road (if the reporting is correct) was a significant contributory factor or not should be the basis for the death by dangerous driving prosecution and decided by a jury.
DracFull MemberEnough for a skilled barrister to put doubt in the minds of a jury, who knows?
He’d have to be one pretty charming barrister.
SuperficialFree MemberOr, the chap in question could accept responsibility for breaking the law and base his defence on the fact that poor lass who died walked out in front of him.
I think this is the crux of it. She died because, without looking, she walked out in front of someone.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think it would be an offence to ride a (non-motorised) bike at 25mph along that road (even though the speed limit is, apparently, 20mph)?
I can’t see this ending well for the cyclist. He should have been driving a car, or even riding a (licensed) motorbike. Then it would be a case of ‘shit happens’ and he’d never go to prison. So in this case I’ve got some sympathy – it certainly doesn’t look as though he intended to hurt anyone, and he wasn’t filtering through traffic or anything potentially dangerous.
As an aside re: the getting up and walking away thing: I’ve been in a very similar situation on my (non-e-) bike where someone simply walked out in front of me. In my case it was 100% their fault and I ended up on the floor with a bruised shoulder and bent front wheel. I was seriously pissed off. Fortunately neither of us were seriously hurt but at that moment I was most definitely lacking in sympathy for the other person.
epicsteveFree MemberThat footage of the accident does look more like a motorbike than a bicycle (especially compared to the guy pedaling a bike at the start of the clip). The quality of the footage isn’t great but I couldn’t really see any signs that he was pedaling the bike.
dangeourbrainFree MemberThere was a long period where the bike was abandoned on the street. Plenty of opportunity for deliberate tampering. Enough for a skilled barrister to put doubt in the minds of a jury, who knows?
So if, whilst parked, some smashed the windscreen of your car, would it be OK to drive it?
No. Its your responsibility to make sure your (motor) vehicle is roadworthy every time you use it.[aside] do road.cc block comments on all ebike articles? [/aside]
jonm81Full MemberCorrect me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think it would be an offence to ride a (non-motorised) bike at 25mph along that road (even though the speed limit is, apparently, 20mph)?
You’re right hence the second part of my post and if that was what happened he wouldn’t be facing a charge of death by dangerous driving.
What the prosecuting barrister needs to prove is that the vehicle he was using was illegal (probably easy) and that it was a significant contributing factor to her death (likely not so easy using the same logic you have above, ie. could he travel at that speed in that location on a normal bike; probably, and would the outcome of the collision have been the same; again probably).
Edit:
Do I think he should be prosecuted for death by dangerous driving: No, based on the video.Do I think he should be charged with driving without a licence and insurance: Yes if it was a chipped e-bike.
Is he a monumental arsehole for leaving an injured pedestrian in the road: Most definately.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.