Viewing 29 posts - 1 through 29 (of 29 total)
  • The cross-training training mega thread
  • Premier Icon reluctantlondoner
    Full Member

    Inspired by this thread The training mega thread I thought it would be good to do a sibling thread on how people are approaching their cross-training? (Mods feel free to bin if too close to the other).

    My rationale being:
    *Many(Most?) of us neglect cross-training
    *It’s hard to know what to do without getting burned out
    *Structured or progressive plans are harder to find
    *It pays massive dividend when we actually do it properly
    *Normal bike training plans are super easy to find, and are built into Zwift/TR/SUF etc

    So, who does what? How do you structure your week/days for training? What has been effective for you? Sources of good information or plans?

    Premier Icon mogrim
    Full Member

    I’m in a triathlon club. That pretty much covers cross training, particularly as the coach also includes weights in his training plans.

    Premier Icon 13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Great idea, I really struggle with cross training, especially knowing how to fit it in around cycle training, e.g. how do I manage 2 turbo sessions a week, one or two gentle runs, one or two outdoor rides AND weight training?

    Back from a very gentle 4km run today using Couch25k principles, but still getting IT band issues so it’s fairly clear I need to be strengthening glutes and hips more than I am doing.

    Premier Icon Duggan
    Free Member

    I almost ignored this thread as I thought it was referring to cross-fit for some reason weirdly.

    I concur with 13thFloorMonk in that I struggle to understand how to really progress in a discipline whilst also cross-training.

    I used to focus entirely on running or cycling only and switch maybe once a year but as I’ve got older I decided to avoid this as I felt it was asking for injuries and also it was devastating when I did get injured as it was eggs-in-one-basket situation.

    These days I spread myself across road cycling/running/gym (or home workout lately) and find its really helped when I have minor injury in one discipline as I can switch seamlessly into the other 2 without a massive lay-off. I think there’s less chance of getting bored or burned out too.

    On the other hand the problem is I am unsure how to really dovetail say cycling and running together. Doing say 2 x cycling sessions a week and 2 x running sessions a week doesn’t give me faith that I would result in being especially fit in either of them.

    Is it just a case of accepting being a jack of all trades and master of none or can the progressions/macro/micro cycles of both be dovetailed together?

    Premier Icon 13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Is it just a case of accepting being a jack of all trades and master of none or can the progressions/macro/micro cycles of both be dovetailed together?

    The guys and girls in the running thread gave me some good advice on this, I try to treat the running as a recovery/rest day, so even by my own woeful standards on two feet I’m typically taking it easy (e.g. using Couch-to-5k rules of running/rest/running) on my runs. I think also that you can combine running and cycling as they use different muscle groups?

    My approach is still to prioritise cycling as much as possible, it’s almost refreshing to take up running with absolutely no aspirations about performance, I don’t even know what a good pace is but I know I’m slow!

    Premier Icon reluctantlondoner
    Full Member

    Are there any enterprising coaches or PTs in our midst who could help?

    @Mogrim – what does a week look like for you? Training morning and night? Or double sessions, and then how do you know what to do first/prioritise?

    Premier Icon Duggan
    Free Member

    For what its worth, I’m currently doing 2 x turbo session, 2 x run and 2 x gym (home workout) a week with one rest day.

    Tbh the gym/home workout is each an hour of bodyweight exercises and sometimes stretching and I reckon I could probably condense those two hours down into other sessions if I really wanted- e.g. just trim down the exercises to the essential/maximum benefit ones only and then incorporate them into a warm-up or cool-down of the running or cycling sessions.

    Premier Icon TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    What are you training for?

    Premier Icon Duggan
    Free Member

    I’m not training for anything in particular at the minute, mainly just because I enjoy it and to pass the time/add some structure in lock-down.

    Whenever we return to something-like normal though I’d be aiming at maybe some Duathlons and also joining a tri-club.

    Premier Icon 13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    For what its worth, I’m currently doing 2 x turbo session, 2 x run and 2 x gym (home workout) a week with one rest day.

    I had hoped to combine the running and strength days into one day to make room for some recovery and also some extra weekend riding.

    I’m not doing mega weights or strength, just conditioning really, so my ideal routine would be strength in the AM, run in the afternoon.

    I just don’t know if that confuses the recovery/adaptation from the strength work, I read somewhere that ideally you wouldn’t combine strength and cardio like that.

    Premier Icon karnali
    Free Member

    This depends on what you want to get out of it, combined with how much time you have to train and also some recovery/adaptation time as well.

    If a main focus is biking then building in some cross training to support that and build general fitness is beneficial.

    If it is a general all round fitness then you may structure it differently.

    It can be useful to think of a weeks training in terms of total training hours available and realistic training hours and then how they can be spread over your week and put in a diary.

    from there you can then place key sessions in for your main focus and ensure that you have some rest between them. I have found short yoga sessions (15 mins or so) to be excellent to build in as well. I have found with strength and conditioning its easy to read about loads of different workouts that will be the best you could possibly do but actually having 3 or 4 workouts that are simple to do and easy to add in progression works better in reality. for me these tend to be basic exercises that hit a few areas, push ups, burpees, lunges, kettle bell swings, core etc. x reps of 2 or 3 exercises for x reps.

    a week for me may look like this
    monday 15 mins yoga and some planks.
    tuesday AM hard turbo session intervals 1 hour approx – later on that day lunchtime 15 mins of S+ C
    wed as monday
    Thur – late pm hard run session – 40-60 mins
    Fri – steady bike or turbo 1 hour – recovery type ride

    Sat longer ride 2-3 hours AM then 2nd S+C
    Sun either longer fell run (1.5 – 2hours) or bike and a run again AM

    Thats about 6 hours ride / run, 30 mins S+C and 45 yoga with

    I build up the length of some sessions over a 3 week cycle then have an easier week. I sometimes do 30 mins gentle spin on the rest days but this is very easy. For me this gives the maximum time between the hard sessions and the longer stuff for what I’m training for.

    Premier Icon MSP
    Free Member

    Assembling a home gym has been the best thing I ever did for my health, I have gone a bit overboard over the past year and sank a few grand into equipment. But having that in my cellar is brilliant, what it especially means is that I almost never talk myself out of a session before starting anymore, I at least get started and give it 10 mins, that way I can decide if I was really too tired or just mentally lazy. And 9 out of 10 times I will finish a workout that had I needed to go elsewhere to do I wouldn’t have started.

    My current week normally looks something like

    2 x weight training sessions, under an hour each.
    2 x short rides (currently short rides are on the turbo around the 1 hr mark)
    1 x long ride, I really try to make this outdoors unless the weather is absolutely awful
    2 x concept2 ergathlon (each takes about 30 mins), these are the sessions I am most likely to drop when tired and/or taking an easy week each month.

    In winter I go a bit heavier with the weights, in summer I lighten the load so as to not have a knock-on effect on my riding.

    Still a middle aged fat man mind you.

    Premier Icon pip001
    Free Member

    at the moment im doing turbotraining to replace the mtb/road riding but do like to do weights sessions as well so i just tend to do day one cycling day two weights and just repeat.if i do have an odd day off i just carry on from where i was.keeps it simple.i occasionally replace the cycling with a jog on the treadmill for bone health.

    Premier Icon loum
    Free Member

    I’m not a triathlete but I do enjoy running swimming and cycling. I think mogrim’s right that triathletes know this stuff, and Joe friel’s triathlon training Bible has a lot of good info on cross training all three.
    Lack of open pools and grotty weather have meant it’s nearly all running for me at the moment. Trying to build a bit of strength and flexibility training into it too.

    Premier Icon Keva
    Free Member

    I don’t really have any structure at all, I just do what feel like whenever I want to do it.
    my cross training or PT usually involves a bit of a run, say a couple or three miles then a load of exercises in the park split by shuttle runs. So say something like 12x star jumps, run 10-15 metres,
    15x incline press ups, run 10-15 metres back, 20x twist crunches and so on until I get too knackered to do anymore. so say something like this after a 2.75mile run takes about 15min.
    >
    12x star jumps
    15x incline press ups
    20x twist crunches

    12x star jumps
    10x hindu press ups
    10x shoulder stand crunches
    10x alternate leg raises

    10x pistol squats
    15x press ups
    5x shoulder stand crunches
    10x circular leg raises

    20x jumping lunges
    10x crunches
    10x side plank raises
    12x press ups

    Sometimes I’ll go for a 4-5mile run and do some of those along the way at several hundred yards intervals, sometimes I’ll do some PT and then do 30-40mins yoga, other times I just do yoga or the PT on it’s own, or just go for a run. I like to mix it up as it keeps things varied. My bike rides are a mix of cross country and singlespeed road.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    I train with weights three times a week as well as doing 2-3 bike rides. My week looks like this…

    Monday night: Weights session Deadlifts and other posterior chain stuff
    Tuesday night: Bench press, dragon flags and some other ancillary stuff
    Wed am: ride 100-120km
    Thursday: Coached PT session working on assymetric stuff eg lunges etc
    Friday: off
    Saturday: ride 100-120km
    Sunday: either rest day or ride 70km

    I mainly do the weights to have a better balance, rather than for cycling. I enjoy cycling but it’s no good for overall fitness as it neglects the upper body, is notorious for lower back problems and bone density etc.

    My main training focus is to maximise the number of years of good physical ability that I have, rather than short term performance. I’ve lifted the heaviest weights I’m every going to in the past and have been the fittest cyclist I’ll ever be in the past, so unlikely to set any more PBs. I’m focussing on long term quality of life now (and kicking arse in my retired racers cycling group).

    Premier Icon mogrim
    Full Member

    what does a week look like for you? Training morning and night? Or double sessions, and then how do you know what to do first/prioritise?

    A typical week for us is:

    Mon: run + swim (evening club session)
    Tue: bike (turbo) or rest
    Wed: run + swim (evening club session)
    Thur: bike (turbo)
    Fri: run + swim
    Sat: longer bike
    Sun: brick (shorter bike + short run off the bike)

    There’s also a gym session which would usually be on a Thursday or Friday, but it’s a bit more flexible.

    Priorities are set by the coach, and depend on where we are in the year – at this time of year we’re slowly building, adding in a bit of intensity but still coming out of the Christmas break. In summer with races every other weekend (in a normal year) the volume drops while maintaining intensity.

    I should say I rarely do this full plan – I usually substitute the Saturday bike for a trail run with mates, and only do one of the activities on Friday. But then for me sport is a social activity, and I’m more interested in training with friends than actually doing well at races 🙂

    Premier Icon stick_man
    Full Member

    Respect to Footflaps for the Tuesday night Dragon Flags!

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    Respect to Footflaps for the Tuesday night Dragon Flags!

    I had 10 years off cycling and tried my hand at various stuff, Olympic lifting, Gymnastic strength training and CrossFit.

    I’m quite proud of my Ab strength from Front Lever work, so only keep the dragon flags in there as if I stop doing them I’ll loose the strength and probably never get it back! I don’t think anyone else at the CF box could do full flags.

    Sadly, my massive abs are covered by a thick layer of lard comprising gin, crisps and chocolate biscuits, so no one has ever seen them and probably never will 😉

    Premier Icon whitestone
    Free Member

    I looked at getting some more weights the other day …

    JEEEEZ!!!!!!!

    HOW MUCH!

    FOR A COUPLE OF LUMPS OF METAL?

    Makes bike parts seem positively cheap. Obviously as with most fitness related kit at the moment many suppliers are low on stock so that could have a bearing on the prices.

    Since I’ve left it way too late, I’d actually be working up in to a “maintenance ” phase for the rest of this spring and summer rather than doing a full build phase starting in September or so. Have seen some schedules (Dylan Johnson) that integrate weights with bike training and if they are full on sessions then they seem to be on a day by themselves and after a rest day.

    As with all these “programmes”, anything is better than nothing and we are really just looking for the most effective gains for the least effort.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    I looked at getting some more weights the other day …

    JEEEEZ!!!!!!!

    HOW MUCH!

    FOR A COUPLE OF LUMPS OF METAL?

    Worst possible time to buy, gyms are shut and everything sells out super quick at much higher prices than nomal.

    Premier Icon MSP
    Free Member

    I sold off some of my excess weight plates a few weeks ago, good quality urethane bumper plates, got pretty much what I paid for them. I think I could have turned a profit if I had advertised them for more and been prepared to wait a week or two.

    Recycled the money into more kit, bought an eliko open deadlift bar,I was waiting on some cheaper options but after waiting a few months for it to come back in stock, decided I having the kit to train with for the next few months was more value than waiting to save money.

    Also got some rogue loadable dumbbells on order, again the only cheaper options that were available wouldn’t send to Germany, and I couldn’t find any decent quality alternatives available in mainland Europe.

    Premier Icon Duggan
    Free Member

    Wow, some impressive schedules in here, chapeau. My wife genuinely thinks I’m weird for training 6 times a week but if anything it looks like I need to up my game.

    I love running but have plantar fascitis in my foot (pretty sure the switch to WfH in March lockdown brought it on) so my runs now have to be short which has forced me to make them into a Run + Park Workout instead. Probably a better use of my time at the age of 39 though.

    Premier Icon whitestone
    Free Member

    @footflaps – see my next (unquoted) paragraph, definitely a seller’s market ATM. My brother has some plates that I don’t think he’s using so I might tap him up to borrow them.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    On the plus side (well not at all really) there are a lot of gyms folding right now, so a lot of kit up for sale. Friends of mine are just shutting their CF Box as they’d just recovered from LD #1 then LD #2 & #3 came along and has tipped them over the edge, lost too many members and can’t break even with no end is sight.

    Premier Icon mogrim
    Full Member

    I love running but have plantar fascitis in my foot

    I’ve been using one of these in bed for the past few months, seems to be doing a good job of clearing my PF up:

    (not that exact model/brand, but the same)

    Premier Icon Duggan
    Free Member

    Cheers Mogrim 👍 I think I will actually order one tomorrow as stretches haven’t improved it yet by themselves. It’s not too bad to walk on in the day but deffo worse in the mornings!

    Premier Icon Earl
    Free Member

    I’ve made everything I do core centric.

    Sand bag squats – inflate the diaphragm – push yourself up through the lower abs. Legs extend naturally.
    Pressups/pull-ups – braced from the first to last rep.
    Hill climbs – push pull with arms legs – cross core.
    Hand stands – brace brace.
    No crunches!

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    No crunches!

    Crunches aren’t recommended anymore as it’s not a range of movement your abs are designed for (at least not doing 100s of reps). Isometrics are much better for Abs eg hollow body holds are really tough eg 5x 1min with 30secs off between reps. Lie flat on back, arms and legs fully extended (away from body) and straight. Lift legs 3″ off the ground at the same time as lifting arms and shoulders 3″ off the ground. Hold them still for 60 seconds, try not to cry.

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