Viewing 40 posts - 161 through 200 (of 423 total)
  • The Covid Inquiry.
  • oldmanmtb2
    Free Member

    Quite surprised that people are saying ” its worse than we thought” for me its “better than i thought”

    tjagain
    Full Member

    its pretty much exactly what I thought was going on.  It was obvious that decisions on restrictions were too slow each time thus meaning they had to go on longer.  Its was obvious that centralising test and trace and sidelining expertise in local authorities was going to be rubbish.  it was obvious hancock was out of his depth and that Johnson did not take it seriously

    Incompetent shower of corrupt bastards

    Incompetent shower of corrupt bastards

    I’d expect little improvement from any person who has never really had a proper job for any period of time and spent their entire life in politics.

    Would really like to see more laypeople move into politics as a second career, can’t be any worse than it currently is.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Trouble with that is that politics ie getting noticed, getting selected, getting elected and getting a government job is a different skillset from actually running stuff.

    Well we either figure out a way to change that or this is it for the foreseeable, a bunch of self-serving mid-wits who’ll lead us to our collective demise.😂

    But then, we do fall for their bullshit as it speaks to our own agendas and ideologies, so maybe there’s something in us getting the political class we deserve not the one we need…

    dantsw13
    Full Member

    The expertise is supposed to come from the Civil Service. Sadly this lot hate them, mainly for telling them the reality rather than just fluffing their egos.

    I’d love to see a new “People’s Party” emerge, run by real workers. Sadly I think the population at large is too stupid and selfish to vote for realistic policies instead of unicorns.

    binners
    Full Member

    But then, we do fall for their bullshit as it speaks to our own agendas and ideologies, so maybe there’s something in us getting the political class we deserve not the one we need…

    The thing is that now everyone, bar the wilfully blind like Dorres and Rees-Mogg, can see Boris Johnson for the callous and clueless incompetent that he is. I think (hope!) that the ‘lets vote for him, because he looks like a bit of a laugh’ has well and truly run its course. What we’re hearing over the last few days just confirms what we all knew… that he was the very last person on earth to be sleeping at the wheel in a national emergency.

    The only bonus that can come of this is that the Tory party can now hopefully have many years in opposition to ponder the error of their populist experiment with low rent Trumpism that led them down this political mop-headed cul-de-sac.

    I expect that all this weeks car crash is just the warm up act to the multi-lane pile-up of Hancock, Johnson and Sunak having to testify under oath. ‘Rats in a sack’ is the likely outcome as they desperately try to deflect blame onto one another. Hopefully that will be the final nail in the coffin of this gang of grifters

    dantsw13
    Full Member

    I expec5 Johnson’s testimony to just be waffle and lack of memory, sprinkled with “vaccine rollout” and self aggrandisement.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    I expec5 Johnson’s testimony to just be waffle and lack of memory, sprinkled with “vaccine rollout” and self aggrandisement.

    He’ll go into full PMQ mode, I fully expect him to accuse the inquiry KC of being Jeremy Corbyn’s biggest fan, beholden to his union paymasters and failing to prosecute Jimmy Savile.

    fasgadh
    Free Member

    Vaccines, waffle, waffle, vaccines.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Roll up, roll up. Get your popcorn here

    Mark Sedwill in the hot seat today.

    First earth shattering revelation – filling the cabinet with rabid Brexiteers rather than experienced and competent people was an issue.

    nickc
    Full Member

    The expertise is supposed to come from the Civil Service

    I agree with Cummings (and others) in the view that the way the CS is organised, run, and perhaps more importantly how people get promoted through it is probably no longer fit for purpose. They (the CS) still champion the “all rounder” and they’re suspicious of their own people who stay in depts. too long, and the only way to get promoted through the upper echelons is not to become expert in your field, but to have broad experience. 

    You can see the result of this when folks from HMRC find themselves recruited to become ‘poachers’ in the City for salaries 10 times what they can get working for the govt. and the same thing happens in every govt specialism. 

    If anything the COVID enquiry should at least focus on this failing. 

    binners
    Full Member

    Wasn’t the standout quote from yesterday, from Simon case, with regards to the cabinet:

    “I’ve never seen a bunch of people less well-equipped to run a country”

    In an exchange of private messages sent before he became Cabinet Secretary in July 2020, Mr Case described Downing Street staff as “mad” and “poisonous”.

    No surprises there then, eh?

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    I agree with Cummings (and others) in the view that the way the CS is organised, run, and perhaps more importantly how people get promoted through it is probably no longer fit for purpose. They (the CS) still champion the “all rounder” and they’re suspicious of their own people who stay in depts. too long, and the only way to get promoted through the upper echelons is not to become expert in your field, but to have broad experience.

    Ministers and their political appointee aides have moved so far away from rational thinking and logic that it was almost impossible for civil servants to moderate them on many issues. The fallout from Brexit left the cabinet full of people addicted to magical thinking, as this was the only way to reconcile their responsibility for one of the dumbest ideas in British political history. Anyone remotely sensible could not stomach it, and resigned or were purged.

    You were left with a gang of grifters, idiots or head-in-the-sand merchants (mostly a combination of all three), sprinkled with some cynical disaster capitalists and conspiracy weirdos. Led by a liar and fraud with no interest in detail, preferring vacuous bullshit and boosterism.

    You couldn’t have a worse crew lined up to deal with a public health emergency on that scale.

    Kramer
    Free Member

    The thing about these clowns, is that if they were the sort of people who were minded to help us learn from the pandemic, then they wouldn’t have been so awful in office and so there wouldn’t be so much arse covering.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    What Martin says.

    Also, the FCO (as it was called) definitely favoured internal experts not floating generalists… you can only imagine the problems that caused as they were sent out to find the Brexit unicorns for their ministers.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    They (the CS) still champion the “all rounder” and they’re suspicious of their own people who stay in depts. too long, and the only way to get promoted through the upper echelons is not to become expert in your field, but to have broad experience.

    And they never stick around long enough to deal with the consequences, or learn from, their mistakes. The only thing I agree with Cummings on.

    bikesandboots
    Full Member

    Humphrey?

    dovebiker
    Full Member

    Yes, I spent quite a few years working in Whitehall with a few departments – most ‘working grades’ of civil servants have very limited scope in their work are trammelled by budgets and policy and so have limited scope to wriggle in their swim lanes. With the Con/Lib administration the concept of collaboration was discarded in favour of market liberalisation and a Treasury mantra of competition delivering value – this is fine if you have people well versed in project and contract management but the Carillion failure was a precursor to the blatant PPE frauds – departments lacked the sensible heads as they’d been increasingly replaced by political poodles due to Brexit. Much of the decision making had been contracted-out to the big 4 consultancies that there were relatively few heads left to wake up and smell the coffee. Brexit was also such a huge distraction diverting absolutely massive resources from across all departments – pandemic readiness planning as featured highly in the National Security Review risk register was sacrificed for “getting Brexit done”. Throw self-serving chumps like Hancock into the mix and you have a recipe for disaster – even as a junior minister he was often out his depth in a puddle. I was once at an event at the FCO and there was palpable embarrassment at Johnson as he tried to wing-it in front of a knowledgeable audience. He failed there and was still appointed as PM.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Humphrey

    It’s uncanny isn’t it?

    binners
    Full Member

    Is anyone else listening to Patrick Vallances testimony?

    Its absolutely damning about Boris Johnson.

    He’s endeavouring to be diplomatic but it seems like trying to explain the basics of how viruses work was like trying to explain it to a particularly dim child and he just couldn’t seem to get his head around it all. He’d have it all explained to him in words of less than 2 syllables, then ask a question so stupid that everyone would have their heads in their hands

    TiRed
    Full Member

    Repeated failure of PM to understand graphs! Gave up science at 15. Had to repeat concepts multiple times

    Apparently there is an objective for 50% of fast-track civil servants to be recruited from STEM subjects. Whether that would have helped, given the leadership and decision making is moot.

    Here if anyone wants to listen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVdzApg7cjI

    Klunk
    Free Member

    Back in the day You could’nt get into Oxbridge to do Maths/Sceince without an English and a language o level. Seems you can get in to read classics with any o’l crap if you’re from the right school :/

    nickc
    Full Member

    Apparently there is an objective for 50% of fast-track civil servants to be recruited from STEM subjects.

    But the promotion (and therefore increased salaries) are still going to gained by moving depts to get higher up the rungs. Until the CS recognise value in expertise and reward it accordingly, the issue will remain the same. 

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    Its absolutely damning about Boris Johnson.

    Oh he’s just a poundshop Trump. Absolutely thick as mince.
    They get by in life by bullshitting and blustering and sounding posh and due to their inherited wealth (anyone still wondering why they want to cut inheritance tax…?) and the elitist school background that teaches you how to be dead clever in debating (so that you can argue against anyone calling you stupid) and then they get by on a life of delegating all the details to others.

    JRM admitted (or was forced to admit) in an interview that he actually wasn;t very well read at all but he did read the Oxford Book of Quotations all the time and he had memorised a lot of the quotes. It allowed him to sound dead clever and well-read when he could come out with these quotes from learned historical figures but he was simply parroting them.

    Johnson isn’t that different. Bit of bluster, some pig-Latin and a self-deprecating anecdote. Johnson (and JRM) are the thick person’s idea of an intelligent person.

    frankconway
    Full Member

    Difficult to see Whitty’s evidence being any less damning of johnson & co.

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    If I were one of the families that lost a loved one during Covid and I was listening to just how criminally incompetent Johnson and the government were, I think of really lose my sh*t over this.

    Blood on their hands.

    n0b0dy0ftheg0at
    Free Member

    There’s a shock, Rishi’s “eat out to help covid out” was news to SAGE when announced to the country! 😆

    chrismac
    Full Member

    I’m still not sure what the expected outcome of this inquiry is expected to be beyond making some lawyers rich.  Yes we are hearing some daming evidence but so what? We all knew Johnson and his cronies were clueless and probably corrupt.  It’s not as if anything is going to happen to them as a result of this inquiry though is it. We will get the lessons learnt statements from the government of the day when it finally ends but unless anything actually changes then why bother

    binners
    Full Member

    There’s a shock, Rishi’s “eat out to help covid out” was news to SAGE when announced to the country! 😆

    And they didn’t discuss things like that at SAGE meetings anyway as they were minuted, so everything was on the record.

    They didn’t want that, obviously. Much better to do it by Whatsapp instead, ensuring culpable deniability

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    The extract says Johnson “looked broken – head in hands a lot”, and quotes the PM saying “We are too shit to get our act together”.

    Finally, I agree with Boris on something.

    andybrad
    Full Member

    I agree,

    I still fail to see how they are going to be held criminally accountable? corporate manslaughter?

    chrismac
    Full Member

    I still fail to see how they are going to be held criminally accountable? corporate manslaughter?

    they aren’t going to be held accountable. Rishi will go back to America and the family business when he is chucked out of office and Boris will carry on being Boris and being overpaid to write drivel in columns

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    andybrad
    Full Member
    I agree,

    I still fail to see how they are going to be held criminally accountable? corporate manslaughter?

    There is no search for any criminality in the enquiry.

    Some criminality might be proven byb police investigations into some very dodgy PPE contracts to Tory donors etc though but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

    It still sickens me to think that a fair few in the Tory party and their donors simply saw a national emergency as a cash cow to make millions from.

    A bunch of rat-like spivs basically.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    A lot of people still missing the point that enquiry is to learn lessons to try and avoid a repeat in the next pandemic, rather than string anyone up.

    The main learning point being don’t vote Tory.

    There’s a shock, Rishi’s “eat out to help covid out” was news to SAGE when announced to the country!

    The furlough schemes were news to HMRC at the time too – our Chief Exec is on record saying he was given 30 minutes notice to watch that nights broadcast as it would affect us.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Indeed the Enquiry is about learning from the process and improving for next time around.

    Not having the selfish dimwits in charge seems the biggest learning.

    thecaptain
    Free Member

    Is anyone else perturbed by the extent to which Vallance’s testimony is contradicted by the evidence of the SAGE minutes? I’m talking specifically about the mid-March issues right at the start. When did he decide that the doubling time was 3 days (rather than the 5-7 they had previously thought) and when did he decide a proper lockdown was necessary?

    He claims this was around the weekend of 14-15 March.

    The SAGE minutes of the 16th and 18th March tell a very different story.

    I wonder if anyone involved in the Inquiry has actually read these (short, simple) documents?

    fasthaggis
    Full Member

    Is anyone else listening to Patrick Vallances testimony?

    Its absolutely damning about Boris Johnson.

    He’s endeavouring to be diplomatic but it seems like trying to explain the basics of how viruses work was like trying to explain it to a particularly dim child and he just couldn’t seem to get his head around it all.

    When I heard that earlier,I cheered at the radio.

    However..

    they aren’t going to be held accountable. Rishi will go back to America and the family business when he is chucked out of office and Boris will carry on being Boris and being overpaid to write drivel in columns

    Sadly,all of this^^
    Such rich rewards for gross incompetence.

    mattsccm
    Free Member

    And people think this will be any better ? Dozy buggers. Those producing any report will have an axe to grind and it won’t be worth the paper it is written on.

    All too subjective. I for one think it wasn’t too bad although somewhat wishy washy. Could have been better, could have been worse. We lost relatively few people. If it had been Ebola we would have really needed to worry.

    hightensionline
    Full Member

    Indeed the Enquiry is about learning from the process and improving for next time around.

    Yep. And I dearly hope the main point to learn from (aside from people not voting Tory) would be to follow the advise given by experts, and to plan accordingly for those scenarios, perhaps especially if they have very serious potential outcomes:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Cygnus

    But then again, Matt Hancock.

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