The ban on laptops in cabin baggage.

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  • The ban on laptops in cabin baggage.
  • nickjb
    Member

    Are the holds on planes bombproof or something?

    Surely if a bomb goes off during the flight, you’re screwed either way?The theory is that if you have it with you it can be carefully placed, say right up against the fuselage so it can be very small (about the size of a large tablet or laptop. In the hold it could be surrounded by a tonne of luggage so a small device will do nothing

    That’s an interesting theory, but with modern technology, a bomb the size of a laptop could have a significant blast~ then of course there’s ample possibility that the bag with the laptop in could be against the fuselage in the hold.

    Before todays tragic incidents, the BBC news bulletins were mentioning that the Shadow Justice secretary, Richard Burgon, had made a similar point.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    At one point they were asking you to turn it on to prove it was a real device and not a bomb. They can’t do that if it’s in the hold, can they?

    tjagain
    Member

    The real reason for this appears to be nothing to do with terrorism but an attempt to force business folk to stop using middle eastern airlines.

    It may not be about security. Three of the airlines that have been targeted for these measures — Emirates, Etihad Airways and Qatar Airways — have long been accused by their U.S. competitors of receiving massive effective subsidies from their governments. These airlines have been quietly worried for months that President Trump was going to retaliate. This may be the retaliation.

    These three airlines, as well as the other airlines targeted in the order, are likely to lose a major amount of business from their most lucrative customers
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/03/21/trump-wont-allow-you-to-use-ipads-or-laptops-on-certain-airlines-heres-the-underlying-story/?utm_term=.45a689ed974e

    The irony being, I suppose, that I could buy a replacement laptop on each journey with the money I save using any of the UAE airlines compared to BA, or any of the large American carriers.

    I suppose the solution I would go with would be to take a secure OS only laptop in the hold, and an operating encrypted drive in carry on. If the laptop is lost then no data is lost with it.

    Still wouldn’t offer an option to those who work during the flight though.

    Matt24k
    Member

    I had a video camera stolen from my checked baggage on a flight from Birmingham via Dubai to The Maldives.
    This was a few years ago but I got a missing item report from Emirates Airlines and my home insurance covered it as I had specific cover for electronic items in transit.

    mikewsmith
    Member

    The irony being, I suppose, that I could buy a replacement laptop on each journey with the money I save using any of the UAE airlines compared to BA, or any of the large American carriers.

    UAE is my preferred route from Oz to the UK, routes with virgin, Singapore, qantas, ba, ethiad and emirates all come in similar and code share.

    geetee1972
    Member

    The real reason for this appears to be nothing to do with terrorism but an attempt to force business folk to stop using middle eastern airlines.

    That article states:

    “non-U. S. observers are skeptical of this explanation”

    But the UK also implemented the same ban hours after the Americans. This is because there is complete intelligence sharing between the US and UK (and also Canada, Australia and New Zealand as part of the Five Eyes agreement) so it’s reasonable to assume that whatever intelligence it is based on has been shared and acted upon my our secrurity services.

    That article states:

    “non-U. S. observers are skeptical of this explanation”

    I think they’ll find that we’re sceptical.

    tjagain
    Member

    geetee – or is it just a case of us being washingtons poodle again and wanting to make it seem like we are doing everything possible?

    Plenty of previous for this from having to take your shoes off to the ridiculous restrictions on liquids to the pointless waste of time of extra passport checks to armed policeman and tanks outside of airports. NOne of these things actually make flying any safer as none of them address real issues but are all concerned with making us both scared and feel more secure at the same time

    One clue will be if other countries follow. I bet no one else does

    Premier Icon aracer
    Member

    GrahamS wrote:

    The safety of laptop batteries has clearly been proved given the number of laptops that have been flown around over the past 20 years

    Mmmm… 20 years ago the batteries were Ni-Cd or Ni-MH and had a much much lower energy density.[/quote]

    I’m not quite sure of the exact timescale of LiIon batteries being used in laptops, but it’s not actually far off 20 years. It’s almost 15 years ago I first started using LiIon cells from laptop batteries to make custom bike light packs. So I think in general the point stands.

    geetee1972
    Member

    I think they’ll find that we’re sceptical.

    It was a piece in the Washington Post so the spelling is correct.

    geetee – or is it just a case of us being washingtons poodle again and wanting to make it seem like we are doing everything possible?

    What does that statement actually mean; do you mean in the way that has been suggested that Russia influenced the US election? How exactly does sharing intelligence compromise our sovereignty?

    NOne of these things actually make flying any safer as none of them address real issues

    Are you also an expert of flight safety?

    mikewsmith, in my experience we can always get cheaper business tickets through the UAE hub airports to south east Asia and then use the regional airways for shorter flights, Malaysian, Garuda, Thai etc. when in the region.

    It always requires shopping between the big 3 Etihad, Emirates, and Qatar, but one of them is always significantly cheaper than the others. I would prefer to fly everywhere through Singapore because the airport is a nice place to be but they are usually more expensive for our destinations.

    TJ – Additional security increases over the years have been hit and miss in effectiveness in my opinion. I fail to see how having my passport checked on check-in, then again through security, then again at the gate could improve the situation. It’s pretty certain that if my passport was acceptable at security it wouldn’t have changed by the gate surely?

    Armed policemen clearly do make a difference. Liquid restrictions are understandable. And I never minded having to open and switch on my laptop when asked. And removing shoes isn’t exactly time consuming if you’re prepared for it when you get to security. Most delays are caused by people not being prepared for what is now a routine procedure.

    tjagain
    Member

    Liquid restrictions make no sense at all. Liquid bombs are a myth and why do you hve to take your shoes of if its walking boots but not if you have wedges which could equally have a completely ineffective bomb in them

    Geetee I can read and I can make my own mind up on the evidence and none of these things are evidence based

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    Plenty of previous for this from having to take your shoes off to the ridiculous restrictions on liquids to the pointless waste of time of extra passport checks to armed policeman and tanks outside of airports. NOne of these things actually make flying any safer as none of them address real issues but are all concerned with making us both scared and feel more secure at the same time

    I was in Europe last summer and there were tanks outside rail stations, so it’s hardly a ‘special relationship’ thing.

    Premier Icon oldnpastit
    Subscriber

    It’s pretty certain that if my passport was acceptable at security it wouldn’t have changed by the gate surely?

    Unless you swap places with someone on a flight to somewhere with different security requirements once past security?

    oldnpastit – do international terminals have variable levels of security? I only ever see one level.

    TJ – unfortunately with the shoe check it seems variable according to the security staff on duty. But as mentioned before, preparing whilst in the queue means that the delay caused is pretty much negligible.

    Premier Icon grumpysculler
    Subscriber

    Don’t some airlines (I’m pretty sure Singapore did when I flew with them last year) have rules in place that mean laptops must go in the cabin, due to the fire risk from the lithium batteries?

    Different rules for installed and loose batteries. Some airlines choose to apply the tightest rule to all (hand carry only) but it isn’t required. Many airlines distinguish between spare batteries and installed batteries. You can ship installed lithium batteries with no special marking or precautions.

    Liquid bombs are a myth

    No, they aren’t.
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/10/liquid_bomb_verdicts/

    (el reg was initially very sceptical, but evidence caused them to change their mind)

    Are you also an expert of flight safety?

    This is the internet. Better than that, it is STW. Everyone is an expert. Especially me.

    mikertroid
    Member

    @Tom_w

    “If this has something to do with systems security, then Boeing and Airbus should be fixing that – not encouraging the banning of laptops on flights.”

    …Nothing to do with that.
    Hopefully banned from holds too ASAP.

    Premier Icon jimdubleyou
    Subscriber

    oldnpastit – do international terminals have variable levels of security? I only ever see one level.

    Butting in, yes they do.

    A few airports I’ve been to have double screening (main line & at gate).

    PITA if you forget and cut it fine…

    globalti
    Member

    The theory about Trump protecting US airlines is a good one; I like a conspiracy theory – have emailed it to my bro in the USA. But hang on – will the ban apply to an Arab flying from the Middle East to Europe or the USA on a European or American airline? Do any American airlines actually fly to the Middle east?

    Premier Icon El Vino
    Subscriber

    Nothing to do with that.
    Hopefully banned from holds too ASAP.

    That would be a great idea, them companies might work out that lots of business travel is basically unnecessary and use the array of collaborative working tools they have invested in. Brilliant for the planet and safer too! Not saying all business travel is unnecessary just a decent %

    davidr
    Member

    Nothing to do with that.
    Hopefully banned from holds too ASAP.

    That would be a great idea, them companies might work out that lots of business travel is basically unnecessary and use the array of collaborative working tools they have invested in. Brilliant for the planet and safer too! Not saying all business travel is unnecessary just a decent %[/quote]

    That’s not great for those of us who take laptops or tablets on holiday though. Maybe there’ll be a resurgence on internet cafes in response <shudders>

    jimdubleyou – Actually now you mention it I may have experienced that double screening before as well… obviously didn’t understand what it was about!

    I think the weirdest thing was getting on a flight in south east asia getting settled in my seat, having the guy in front get up and walk off the plane and board the one next to us. He’d walked to the wrong plane and not realised until they announced the destination over the tannoy! That is some interesting security.

    mikewsmith
    Member

    Butting in, yes they do.

    A few airports I’ve been to have double screening (main line & at gate).
    Into Singapore from Indonesia everyone was screened in,coming from Australia walk right in.

    That would be a great idea, them companies might work out that lots of business travel is basically unnecessary and use the array of collaborative working tools they have invested in. Brilliant for the planet and safer too! Not saying all business travel is unnecessary just a decent %

    Some is and some isn’t. Problem for me would be having to make sure my laptop was fully waterproof in case it was sat on the tarmac for a while in a rain storm (happens a lot) and that it is there when I get to a meeting, although I manage to work across many places without being there, when you do you do. Giving my laptop up for a day at a time costs me time and money and screws with our economy.

    hels
    Member

    This will be a completely pointless ban unless they search cabin bags as people get on the flight, or make it universal. What is to stop somebody from another flight handing over a laptop whilst mingling in Boots, airside ??

    P.S and if anybody is responsible for this conspiracy, it is WH Smith

    mikewsmith
    Member

    hels – Member
    This will be a completely pointless ban unless they search cabin bags as people get on the flight, or make it universal. What is to stop somebody from another flight handing over a laptop whilst mingling in Boots, airside ??

    International airports outside of Europe are a lot different, most have get screening, so you are checked before boarding after being checked into the terminal (and as above on arriving) Singapore/AbuDhabi and a few more all have gate pens which are screen into before boarding

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    Are you also an expert of flight safety?

    No but I imagine Philip Baum, managing director of aviation security consultancy Green Light and editor of Aviation Security International, is.

    And he has been in the news saying pretty much the same thing: if there is a threat then they shouldn’t be on the plane at all.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/electronics-ban-will-harm-international-trade-mean-more-unruly-passengers/

    tjagain
    Member

    Laptop cabin ban ‘ineffective’ says IATA

    In a strongly-worded speech, IATA chief executive Alexandre de Juniac said the ban also creates “commercial distortions”.

    “Why don’t the US and the UK have a common list of airports? How can laptops be secure in the cabin on some flights and not others… especially on flights originating at a common airport?”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39425532

    globalti
    Member

    I’ve just flown in from Istanbul on Turkish. They had FOUR staff at the gate taking laptops and tablets from passengers and issuing receipts, same as when they take your cabin baggage off you at the plane. They all looked pretty stressed and hacked off about it.

    At Manchester somebody appeared from behind the wall in the baggage hall with two very big suitcases full of laptops all wrapped in bubble wrap envelopes. The process was reversed except that it took frustratingly long as the two staff had to find your name on the list, find each laptop from about 50 then get your signature. They also looked stressed and hacked off.

    The cost of staff and bubble envelopes is really going to annoy the affected airlines.

    I wonder why TK can’t issue your laptop receipt when you check in, same as for your baggage? You could then present that with the laptop at the departure gate.

    mikewsmith
    Member

    I wonder why TK can’t issue your laptop receipt when you check in, same as for your baggage? You could then present that with the laptop at the departure gate.

    They probably can so long as you tell them you have one, as with most regular travellers the spiel at checkin is met with a yes or no where appropriate. As most desks will deal with multiple flights it’s harder to do specific rules per flight. On top of that if you planned 90mins of work before the flight your going to wabt to do that.

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