The awful, shocking, terrible, horrible realisation…

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  • The awful, shocking, terrible, horrible realisation…
  • Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    Unfortunately I know exactly what you mean…

    piemonster
    Member

    Unfortunately I know exactly what you mean…

    Sadly me too

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    Not nice is it?

    I’m not religious by any means, but my parents were Catholic.
    Very interesting to hear what she thought of ‘them’ too.

    Going back a couple of generations my ancestors were English, French, Spanish, Irish & Belgian.
    I find it fascinating, but to her it seems to be sign of weakness.
    I’m sure her family are similar, but they seem to have a very selective memory.

    Sometimes I just want to pull the bedclothes over my head and not bother with the rest of the planet.

    Premier Icon somafunk
    Subscriber

    Happened in my workplace last week, a few customers came in and the subject of the tragic killing of Lee Rigby was mentioned and some incredibly racist and ignorant views were raised, i argued against what was being said and for all the good it did it was an utterly pointless cause on my part – i figure that’s us lost a couple of swivel eyed loon customers who spend a decent amount of money, but hey-ho – life is too short to think “i wish i had said …….. in response”.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    but hey-ho – life is too short to think “i wish i had said …….. in response”.

    Amen.

    Pathetic, craven conformity rules.
    The politics of ignorance & apathy have almost won.

    I’ve always believed that peaceful, positive example is the only real truth – perhaps I was wrong.

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    Nope, it’s not good. I know someone well who: –
    – cannot stand the entrance of immigrants to the UK who want our jobs ands money
    – believes everything they read on the Daily Mail
    – resents the payment of benefits to legal immigrants
    – moans constantly of wasted taxes

    This is despite: –
    – knowing my late father was an immigrant! But apparently he was “different” – a ‘good’ immigrant if you will…
    – the fact that she relied on benefits for almost 20 years because she needed to be at home because her son was ‘disabled’. He lived and indeed lives an almost entirely ‘normal’ life
    – she is and will remain to be a net receiver of benefits. By the time she dies she will effectively owe the state hundreds of thousands of pounds!

    Great eh…

    Premier Icon 10
    Subscriber

    A guy in our store used this to argue why carrying guns should be allowed in the U.K. because it’s been so successful at preventing crime here πŸ™„

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    always used to point out that my missus was an immigrant to the country, you know one of those white ones, same thin stealing all the jobs over here. But most thought that was fine.
    Get the same in bits of Oz, nobody bats an eyelid at me who’s been here a year but my Brother in law still gets grief despite having lived and worked here for about 20 years because he is malaysian.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    ..that ‘someone you know’ is a genuine, swivel eyed loon.

    I’d ignored the ‘I’d vote for Boris’ & ‘UKIP are right’ nonsense spouted on the last couple of visits.

    But tonight, I was reliably informed that a certain Northern ex-mill town, which has had a perfectly integrated British Asian community since the 1950’s, is experiencing a drop in property values because of, and I quote, ‘the Muslims’.
    Who are ‘taking over’.

    I tried pointing out that:

    1. Property prices in said town have risen steadily for a number of years.

    2. There has never, ever, been any kind of religious conflict in said mill town.
    Not even during the reformation, when it was just a dungheap by a river.

    3. The proportion of Asian families in said town has remained constant for the past thirty years.

    4. Britain is a country built on immigration & we’re a completely raciallly mixed nation.

    All the usual arguments applied against small minded ignorant racists basically.

    So.

    Time to cut loose I think.

    Shame, her kids are nice and she always brings cake, but I just can’t put up with that level of ignorant stupidity in my house or my life.

    user-removed
    Member

    I do wonder if social media is largely to blame. Every bellend in the world is given a voice. Other borderline bellends hear the soundbites, are ‘righteously’ outraged and share the sentiment. Many of the latter group might never have read a newspaper but are just about able to fart about on Facebook for most of the day, imbibing dangerous ideas (this actually works both ways – extremist views are largely held by vulnerable, scared people with malleable brains).

    I only say this as Facebook really has been a cesspit this last week. I pick my (FB) friends carefully but interaction with scratends is eventually unavoidable. And the invasion of FB by people importing posts from Twitter triples the cock-knuckle count.

    It ranges from the attention seeking, pious, “Right, that’s it! I’m having a massive cull of my friends – I HATE RACISTS”, through to “Kick the killers off our streets, back where they came from”. No reflection on the OP (notwithstanding that the signs were obviously there, so it shouldn’t have been that much of a shocking realisation).

    Anyway, it’s simply astounding how much hatred and vitriol has been whipped up. My concern for the poor victim was immediately and entirely overwhelmed by my concern for the aftermath and repercussions of the incident, and lo, within a few days a mosque was burnt down and the EDL were cashing in.

    It all makes me a pretty sad **** panda, frankly.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    user-removed – Member

    I do wonder if social media is largely to blame.

    No, it isn’t.
    Wonder no more.
    A means of communication can’t really be blamed for anything, can it?

    It ranges from the attention seeking, pious, “Right, that’s it! I’m having a massive cull of my friends – I HATE RACISTS”, through to “Kick the killers off our streets, back where they came from”. No reflection on the OP (notwithstanding that the signs were obviously there, so it shouldn’t have been that much of a shocking realisation).

    So those who’d prefer to eschew ignorance and stupidity are ‘attention seeking’ & ‘pious’ are they?

    I’m not having a ‘massive cull’ of my friends.
    Someone I’ve been friendly with has been a tosser.
    They’ve expressed untrue, stupid, & ignorant opinions.
    I’d rather not be their friend any more.

    JCL
    Member

    I’ve got absolute intolerance for religion so while I’m not actively involved I welcome the war.

    user-removed
    Member

    Rusty – believe me, I mean no offence and would have done the same in your place. The Facebook people I know who delight in telling all 682 of their friends that they’ve had a cull are renowned for being ‘look-at-me-princesses. I have no idea who you are, so don’t include you amongst them.

    The whole point of my post was to muse about the way certain human beings are able to rile each other up; inflame opinion, share inflammatory, often fake imagery for their own needs, usually based on fear / prejudice (again, this works in both camps).

    Facebook multiplies this effect. Instead of it being a few dickheads in the staffroom at work, it’s hundreds of them, all chanting the same hateful dogma, into the living rooms of millions – FB now gives us not just friend’s information, but trending Twitter posts, status updates from friends of friends of friends, and perhaps most insidiously, sponsored (paid for) posts. Tempted to close my account now I’ve said that.

    We are on the same page, I just put it badly, sorry.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    Damn good point.

    Why did I post this?
    Am I just seeking affirmation?
    Some sort of justification?

    I’m not sure if I know anymore.

    I’m not scared, btw.
    I’ve just had enough of listening to ignorance & stupidity used as a justification for evil.

    But most importantly I believe that our behaviour is far more influential than posting on a website.

    Tempted to close my account now I’ve said that.

    We are on the same page, I just put it badly, sorry.

    Me too.
    These words are meaningless.

    konabunny
    Member

    I do wonder if social media is largely to blame.

    Naah, in the old days when people went to pubs, it would have been the same sort of bollocks talked in saloon bars.

    retro83
    Member

    3. The proportion of Asian families in said town has remained constant for the past thirty years.

    Interesting. Which town is it?

    UKIP are right, but only on Europe… nothing else.

    If you want to be more shocked, read the Daily Fail’s comment section. “like spending twenty minutes in an insane asylum”

    One of the best things I have seen linked on facebook is this

    [Url=]http://www.russellbrand.tv/2013/05/woolwich/[/url]

    I like Russell brand more and more, i’m sure he’s not everyones cup of tea but he talks sense

    Edit: I give up the link just doesnt seem to want to work, is it me being dense? :-/

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    A very insightful piece there by Brand but you made the link, link back to this page πŸ™

    globalti
    Member

    Why do people waste so much time on this Farcebook and Twatter nonsense? I’ve never bothered and I lead a pretty satisfactory, well-informed life.

    I’m beginning to get an insight though into where my wife gets some of her bizarre ideas, thanks to this post.

    Surely forums are just another form of ‘social media’ – I like facebook as it serves a purpose to me, but yes it is populated with a few idiots . . . Rather reflective of the the planet

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Why do people waste so much time on this Farcebook and Twatter nonsense? I’ve never bothered and I lead a pretty satisfactory, well-informed life.

    For social interactions and communication with people I don’t see all the time due to many reasons from geography to time. It’s not a traditional consumption media outlet so needs to be treated differently.

    I remember as many junk crap fwd email’s from the late 90’s as there is crap on Facebook these days. Sometimes its just about having a good ignore threshold.

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    UKIP are right, but only on Europe… nothing else.

    I take the position that even if the EU has only removed the seeming inevitability of war in Europe, then it has been worth it…

    spchantler
    Member

    i’ve said it before, anyone who doesn’t like someone else because of their gender, colour of their skin, age, who they have sex with, disability, religion or owt else is living in the dark ages and hasn’t grown up from the playground. diddums.

    spooky_b329
    Member

    Unfortunately I have to put up with this from someone as well. Apparently all Muslims are the same and it just needs something to tip them over the edge before they go on a spree.

    Any other immigrants are fair game as well.

    UKIP – tick, but ‘I’m not racist, but…’

    πŸ™

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    Why do people waste so much time on this Farcebook and Twatter nonsense?

    ignorance in action, right there…

    Having said that, I had to highlight to one of my friends that the images he was re-posting were from “BritonsFirst” a website and “political party” created by an ex BNP member.

    Yes and there were images getting reposted fron EDL, I think people were looking at the pics and not where they had come from.

    The Russell Brand thing is a good read though – if someone else can make the link work πŸ˜‰

    Premier Icon wallop
    Subscriber

    You lot who keep reading the Brand link – why can’t you just post it up for the rest of us? πŸ™„ πŸ˜†

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Agree with RS all the way.

    munrobiker
    Member

    My entire family on my mother’s side are swivel eyed loons- one drives around with two sheets of A4 saying “Stuff The Euro and the EEC” in the rear side windows of his car. Eventually you just get used to it and let it wash over you- they’re all nice enough people when they’re not being massive bigots.

    They complain about immigrants an awful lot, and are very clear that they’d rather put massive barriers around the country and not let anyone in. All this around my wife, who is an immigrant, but because she’s white and American apparently she’s somehow not a part of the same problem πŸ™„

    Mrs Toast
    Member

    “The Muslims don’t want to integrate. They have forced marriages and insist on dressing like they’re still in India, like your nan’s neighbours. And that girl you went to school with”.

    “Mom, that girl married a white atheist and came from a Hindu family, and nan’s neighbours were Sikhs”.

    “What’s the difference?”

    Ladies and gentlemen, my mother! I tried to explain the differences in the religions, but she muttered something about Britain being a Christian country and immigrants’ need to conform. My mother, who doesn’t believe in god and has never been to a Church outside of a wedding, funeral or Christening.

    hels
    Member

    I’ve had the conversation many times, people going on about Poles/Muslims/Romanian immigrants stealing our jobs. I point out that I am an immigrant. “but that’s OK because you’re, you know, ahem” Me: “white ?” “well, you know, one of us”.

    Well, I have a British Passport. That’s OK then. What about all the people from Hong Kong who applied when it went back to the Chinese and were turned away ? They had British parents and passports. “well you know, they weren’t like us” “what, you mean white ?” etc etc etc.

    It’s like atheist vs religious types arguing, you can’t use logic and verifiable facts to defeat nutters.

    But I do plan to throw things at the EDL if they ever come up to Scotland. Which would be quite amusing in itself.

    hels
    Member

    P.S and at least in this country the nutters don’t have free and ready access to automatic weapons….

    clubber
    Member

    The Russell Brand link:

    http://www.russellbrand.tv/2013/05/woolwich/

    My Mum’s French, has lived here for 40+ years and is now a British citizen. My whole family are essentially economic immigrants from a few generations back – we don’t have a drop of ‘English’ blood in us though you’d never guess that by seeing or talking to us.

    My Mum still complains about some immigration – basically, the ones who don’t attempt to integrate which is an interesting point. On the one hand, I don’t think it’s an unreasonable position to take but on the other, you need to look at why people don’t try to integrate as I don’t think it’s a particularly natural human trait.

    I figure that it happens where the people immigrating are somehow scared or don’t feel accepted by the inidiginous culture and as such keep to themselves where they feel relatively safe. This then brings it back nicely full circle to the UKIP/etc point of view as I think their position makes integration much harder and less likely.

    WillH
    Member

    Ladies and gentlemen, my mother!

    A couple of weeks ago my mum ‘liked’ a picture on facebook which was basically a short text bemoaning the fact that your average illegal immigrant in Britain gets hundreds of pounds a week without having to work or pay taxes, a free five-bed semi and generally leads a pretty cushy life, while a proper British pensioner who paid taxes all their life only gets thrupence ha’penny and lump of coal to suck on.

    I typed the first line into Google and it returned a Snopes page, which I sent to my mum.

    To be fair she was just being very naive, and asked why someone would post it up in the first place if it wasn’t true. She generally tries to see the best in people and it just hadn’t occurred to her that someone might post that bilge to stir up hatred.

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    Ladies and gentlemen, my mother!

    It’s not just you Mrs Toast!

    I despair when I hear my mum going off on one. She reads the Daily Mail (Irish Edition). FFS!! THE IRISH EDITION!! Her two children emigrated here (but, hey, we look the same and until we open our mouths, you’d never know). Half her family live in Australia, the UK, Argentina, America, France and god knows where else at this stage.

    When I was growing up, she was a teacher with fairly left wing views – it’s probably one of the reasons why I’m a bit of a hand wringing wet liberal leftie myself. But for her generation (working and living in Ireland with almost constant recession, zero growth and the occasional 2 or 3 year boom on the back of whatever was going on in the UK), times have been tough…because of the actions of the greedy generation that she raised. When times get tough, folk just get the finger out and point it at outsiders.

    You think it’s ironic when anyone in the UK whinges about immigration, it’s got nothing on listening to Irish people whinging about it, I can tell you.

    Papa_Lazarou
    Member

    There have been a couple of things in the national and local news recently that have seemingly brought the worst out in people.

    National – Lee Rigby murder – people I ‘know’ on Facebook posting pictures of Enoch Powell and asking “are there any decent Muslims in the world”, FFS.

    Local – a number of attempted child abductions in the local area. Someone posted that thier child had almost been snatched, but then the thread descended into an hysterical witch hunt with people filling in gaps in the facts and starting dangerous rumours.

    I’ve been on the verge of contributing but thought better of it and blocked a few people instead to avoid the vitriol, almost all of which was spouted from a position of ignorance.

    grum
    Member

    I dunno, I detest all the vile unfounded crap that’s been stirred up recently, think UKIP are borderline racists, card-carrying Guardianista etc etc – I think most people who whinge about immigrants are just racist or at the very least repeating ignorant racist nonsense they’ve heard.

    However, there are places where there are issues re immigration that you can’t just dismiss as racism. There are issues around sending your white kids to a school that’s 90% ethnic minorities, with many different native languages. There is also an issue sometimes with the ‘village mentality’ of people who’ve come from areas that have extreme poverty, and low standards of education, health care etc, and are extremely socially conservative. There’s issues with people working for less than minimum wage undermining the local labour market.

    None of this is to say we should blame immigrants for everything but its also daft to pretend there’s never a single problem ever.

    I don’t think you can say anyone who expresses concern about any of those things is necessarily a racist – it’s just that they often are! And there’s so much nonsense and made-up crap spouted by those that generally do mention it, it’s impossible to have a sensible discussion.

    IMHO etc

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