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  • The abolition of private schools
  • squirrelking
    Free Member

    Yes

    Good job I can confidently say you bugger all about what you are talking about on this issue then. You don’t come across as a judgemental prick. At all.

    Yes really, 25% of kids in secondary education in Edinburgh are in private schools

    Probably the highest concentration for a large city in the UK

    But don’t let the facts get in the way of tartan sanctimony

    Cool story bro. Can you now tell me the difference between a grammar school (what I was talking about) and a private school (what you are talking about). Let’s not let reading comprehension get in the way of a smart arsed reply.

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    anagallis_arvensis

    Member
    Are you suggesting that people who send their kids to boarding school don’t like them?

    Yes.

    Stay classy.

    sadmadalan
    Full Member

    I’m another one who paid for his two sons to go to a private school (ages 7-16). Why? Class sizes was one of those, the fact that the school celebrated success and achievement – and that was based on a pupils ability. Plus access to sports facilities and music. Yes we could have done all teh extra curricular activities, but having all it in one place made it easy. We also worked, so having after school clubs was one less hassle.

    I went through the state school – mainly comprehensive – and ended up in a University when less that 5% of people went to Uni. In an ideal world I would have liked my boys to go through the state system, but reality does set it. My lads got full value out of the school DoE, CCF, Music Bands, Rugby, Cricket, Chess plus good GCSEs. They both choose to move to a very good local 6th Form college for A levels and did well.

    We talk about if we got rid of private schools all those passionate parents would drive up standards on the state schools. This is at best a dream. While there were plenty of parents like us, prepared to sacrifice lots of stuff for their education, I am not sure that many of them would have tried to drive up standards at the local schools. To do that you need the majority of parents prepared to be involved and support the school. It does not happen at the moment, a handful of extra parents will not change it – sad but true.

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    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    anagallis_arvensis

    Member
    Are you suggesting that people who send their kids to boarding school don’t like them?

    Yes.

    Stay classy.

    Never been classy in the first place!!

    Was it just at our uni that whenever someone mentioned that they went to a boarding school everyone used to say “so your parents didnt like you either then”?

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    We talk about if we got rid of private schools all those passionate parents would drive up standards on the state schools.

    I think just having more motivated kids would help drive up standards of the others tbh.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Was it just at our uni that whenever someone mentioned that they went to a boarding school everyone used to say “so your parents didnt like you either then”?

    Everyone I know says that, doesn’t mean they actually mean it. Even my mum and I cheerfully say she got rid of me because she hated me, of course we have a sense of humour and don’t actually mean it. I know precious few people, from my school at least, who weren’t grateful for it.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Everyone I know says that, doesn’t mean they actually mean it.

    Are they judgemental ****** or not?

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    Are they judgemental ****** or not?

    Some on this thread most certainly are.

    Garry_Lager
    Full Member

    Everyone I know says that, doesn’t mean they actually mean it. Even my mum and I cheerfully say she got rid of me because she hated me, of course we have a sense of humour and don’t actually mean it. I know precious few people, from my school at least, who weren’t grateful for it.

    Of course they were grateful – Stockholm syndrome is a suit of armour. These kids have no other alternative 🙁
    If your parents were overseas it’s not so bad – but UK parents sending their own kids to UK boarding school. Damn that is cold.

    CountZero
    Full Member

    If your parents were overseas it’s not so bad – but UK parents sending their own kids to UK boarding school. Damn that is cold.

    In your opinion; have you ever actually spoken to students at a private school and asked them their opinion?
    Thought not.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Some on this thread most certainly are.

    Indeed.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    AA I have nothing more to say to you, I know when someone is trying to get a rise and I’m not going to bite.

    Of course they were grateful – Stockholm syndrome is a suit of armour. These kids have no other alternative

    Are you suggesting I have Stockholm syndrome? That the people I went to school with are also suffering? That my parents are “just cold”?

    There is trolling and then there is just plain **** mean. Casting aspersions on my parents, my peers and myself is over the line. You want to get personal? Ive been banned off here for less.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    AA I have nothing more to say to you

    OK.

    hammy7272
    Free Member

    In your opinion; have you ever actually spoken to students at a private school and asked them their opinion?
    Thought not.

    Yes – my mate. He hates his parents for sending him off and “couldn’t be arsed with him.”

    He would never send his kids to private school now.

    crimsondynamo
    Free Member

    1. It’s a very emotive subject.
    2. The range of standards within the state system is huge.
    3. Private schools are little or no better than the very best state schools.
    4. It would be highly desirable if all schools could be as good as the best schools.
    5. Until that happens, parents who have the means can’t be blamed for playing the hand they’re dealt and prioritising their children’s education.
    6. Abolishing private schools is an admirable end, but it is not the means by which we address inequality. Lots of other things have to happen first, otherwise we’re just achieving equality by levelling down. No one wants that.

    Does anyone disagree with any of this?

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    Yes – my mate

    Every person I know who boarded would disagree wholeheartedly. I know a lot of them.

    A shame that your friend’s experience was bad, but it doesn’t mean that it’s the norm.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    Yup.
    I do.
    Completely.

    Abolishing private schools is an admirable end, but it is not the means by which we address inequality. Lots of other things have to happen first, otherwise we’re just achieving equality by levelling down. No one wants that.

    If we maintain the status quo, nothing will change.
    Those with the power to actually improve the state sector will have no incentive to do so.
    Their self interest will prevail. They will continue to send their kids to private schools and pay lip service to genuine improvement of the state sector.
    See Diane Abbott etc…..

    Sometimes a radical change is required.
    All that’s needed is the will to do so.

    It’s quite simple.
    You have to ask yourself if you believe in equality of opportunity.

    If you don’t, be prepared to confront those who do, and accept that other people are happy to challenge your greed and entitlement.

    crimsondynamo
    Free Member

    Rusty, how do you address point.2?

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    By raising the quality of state education to a nationally recognised standard of excellence.

    Do you believe in equality of opportunity?

    crimsondynamo
    Free Member

    Agree 100%, which is what I was referring to when I said other things had to happen.

    crimsondynamo
    Free Member

    Sorry Rusty I missed your edit, you have restated my point 4, which obviously I agree with.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    Sorry, I was trying to be as concise as possible. 🙂

    Those who believe in private education by definition do not believe in equality of opportunity.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Private schools are little or no better than the very best state schools.

    I would be astonished, given the massive differences in per pupil funding if this was the case and would like to know how you came to this conclusion.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    This thread is very informative, it explains why I don’t get on with some folk here and disagree on almost everything. There’s a mindset and set of attitudes that come with a public school education along with a cocky insecurity that even comes across on a forum.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Who would that be?

    Edukator
    Free Member

    Grade the victims of their education:

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jun/08/boarding-school-syndrome-joy-schaverien-review

    for cockiness and insecurity and you can make a list for me. There have been other threads on this that I nicked the above link from.

    Back when I had to (reluctantly) get to grips with things pedagogical a study by a guy called Brownlow put into words things I’d observed in the world around me about language registers and the ability to fuction in different environments. The ability to play with register and adapt your language to whatever situation you’re in is key to acceptance and success. You can also also do just the opposite if you feel like it. Read back through this and other threads where people willingly or through their comments reveal their educational backgrounds and you might find (I do find) that it has a lot to do with if people get on or don’t on this forum. No names, you’re either aware of it or you aren’t, Brownlow was right.

    FuzzyWuzzy
    Full Member

    I quite enjoyed my time at private (boarding) school although I’m sure many kids had a crap time at private school but then I’m guessing many kids at state school did to. OK going somewhere else to live for a big chunk of the year at 11 was a bit of a shock but I soon got used it, some took longer for sure but I wasn’t aware of anyone being damaged for life by the experience. About 1/4 of the school were day pupils so no difference for them in terms of parental relationship than if they’d gone to a state school.

    Ultimately it would be good if the UK state education were so good that most private schools went out of business as they wouldn’t be offering any educational benefit but forcibly scrapping them first in the hope that it will instigate change and improvements seems a stupid idea to me (borne of trying to get headlines rather than sensible policy making)

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Grade the victims of their education:

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jun/08/boarding-school-syndrome-joy-schaverien-review

    for cockiness and insecurity and you can make a list for me

    I could save myself some time if we just had a member list.

    Cockiness and insecurity is not an exclusive trait of people who went to boarding school, this forum should be very good proof of this.

    moshimonster
    Free Member

    There’s a mindset and set of attitudes that come with a public school education along with a cocky insecurity that even comes across on a forum.

    I think that says a lot more about your personal prejudice than the reality. I’m sure there are plenty of cocky, insecure public school pricks. But as someone else pointed out, these are far from exclusive traits of a public boarding school education. Unfortunately, these traits appear to be common throughout our society.

    moshimonster
    Free Member

    Those who believe in private education by definition do not believe in equality of opportunity.

    I don’t think it’s so black and white as that. I don’t “believe” in private education as a concept and would much rather not have to spend £15k a year or whatever per child on education. But if I think the state system is not good enough then I would certainly go private. Our 2 daughters are currently in state primary school (10 and 7) and I can’t fault it so far. Our local grammar school is very good, so that’s an obvious option (as they are both academic). Our local comp is also well regarded and there are several private schools nearby. So I think we are quite fortunate in those respects and could afford the private fees IF necessary. I see private education very much as a last resort option in all honesty.

    Equality of opportunity is all very nice as a concept, but it’s really not how our capitalist society works in practice. But at least there is free state education available and it’s not all shit as some people seem to think. It is however clearly inconsistent and clearly lacking funding. But that’s down to taxation and government spending priorities. I’m not convinced abolishing private schools would help much, if at all in that respect.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Now I know that private schools do not equal boarding schools but this article clearly outlines the damage boarding schools do and the resultant damage to the country

    Boarding schools warp our political class – I know because I went to one

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/07/boarding-schools-boris-johnson-bullies

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    The joke used to be that poor people had their kids taken into care while the rich sent their kids to boarding school but I think there’s more than an element of truth to it.

    My parents were crap at parenting. Our house was just a battle ground with raging arguments every night. Eventually (I was 12) we sat down and decided it would be best if I went to boarding school. There was all kinds of justifications we told ourselves, we were living in the Middle East at the time and the international school I was going to wasn’t good enough being the main one, but the main reason was that as a family we could not get along. My parents failed at their job and I left.

    It’s difficult to gauge how much damage boarding school did me compared to if I had stayed with my parents but I am very **** up.

    My advice to anyone considering sending their kids to boarding school would be just put them up for adoption instead. It takes away the doubt.

    FuzzyWuzzy
    Full Member

    Now I know that private schools do not equal boarding schools but this article clearly outlines the damage boarding schools do

    I think you meant CAN do. My experience of boarding school (from age 11) was not the same as the guy that wrote the article. Was it all some amazing happy time? No but then I know many people going through state schools wouldn’t say their time in one was entirely positive.

    Are there some shit private/boarding schools out there with bullying and sexual abuse issue? Undoubtedly but that doesn’t mean all are like that. I’ve got no idea if sexual abuse happened at my school, I was certainly never aware of it it happening let alone experienced it. Was there bullying? Yes but not relentless and not actually that ‘full on’, I got punched and kicked on a few occasions but I was also a bit of a mouthy git to older pupils, sure that still doesn’t deserve physical assault but stuff like that happens in any school and I doubt it’s anymore prevalent in private schools.

    I can understand if you do end up in a situation where you’re relentlessly bullied then boarding school must be a nightmare and it would likely psychologically scar you. That’s a reason to better monitor pupil behaviour and exclude bullies etc. in boarding schools not ban boarding schools themselves.

    I’ve also said it before, whilst there is the stereotypical private/boarding school like Eton and Harrow there are far more schools out there full of pupils there for reasons other than to try and get into/remain in the ‘elite’ and go on to Oxford/Cambridge and head up a hedge fund or become a politician. Whether or not pupils get a better education at a private school isn’t really relevant, it should be up to parents to determine if it’s of value – it’s not for the government to decide (and there are other reasons besides quality of education why children end up in private schools)

    I’ve got no issues with private schools not receiving funding from tax payers, whether they should get tax breaks is a bit more of a grey area (if the funding cost per pupil is still less than if in state education then why not?). But banning them? It’s just a stupid, ill thought out policy designed to get cheap votes from people that feel they’ve been shafted by the privileged elite and that Labour’s on their side. They may well have been shafted but it’s not due to private schools existing

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Can is correct perhaps with ” and often does”

    FuzzyWuzzy
    Full Member

    And very often doesn’t – or have you done a full survey over the last xx amount of years of every privately educated person? Thought not…

    stumpyjon
    Full Member

    Just wondering if banning private schools would extend to the specialist schools like the Royal Ballet School, Elmhurst Ballet School, Hammond School, Tring School for the Perfoming Arts, Cheethams School of Music, etc. as they offer fantastically superior education in these areas compared to state schools. Would closing them bring up the standard of dance & music in the state sector.

    On a side note the government pays for most of the pupils at these private schools through the MDS (Music & Dance Scheme), which is income dependent but is still pretty generous considering a family income of £90k still gets over half the annual cost (boarding) of £30k paid.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Fuzzy – no others have done that and the results are clear.

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    Look everyone, TJ is right. All private education is evil, especially boarding schools. Every single person who went to one is an evil, mentally and psychologically damaged person who probably stabs kittens for fun.

    How dare anyone say their experience, or those of the overwhelming majority of their friends, differs from these cold, hard facts.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    I’ll just leave this here. Remind you of anyone?

    You develop a shell, a character whose purpose is to project an appearance of confidence and strength, while inside all is fear and flight and anger. The shell may take the form of steely reserve, expansive charm, bumbling eccentricity, or a combination of all three. But underneath it, you are desperately seeking assurance. The easiest means of achieving it is to imagine that you can dominate your feelings by dominating other people.

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    Sounds like every single person who was privately educated. After all, they’re all exactly the same, aren’t they? Can’t argue with facts.

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