Whatever you think about private schools they provide an alternative to the state system, increase variety and don’t suck much from the state.

Faith schools, on the other hand, are funded by the state but explicitly reduce the education opportunities available within the state system, promote monoculture and normalise religious discrimination at an early age.

If Labour are really interested “fair opportunities for all” should they also be proposing the prohibition of religion as a criteria in school admissions?

Yes.

Yes

Yes.

Another yes from me

Religion has no place in education, just as facts have no place in religion

One of favorite Simposns quotes.
I have no kids so shouldnt really comment on education threads but its ridiculous that in this age we allow the state to subsidise or even allow religious schools.

Hear hear.

There is still a requirement for a ‘daily act of collective worship’ in the national curriculum FFS.

An STW total agreement thread?!?

Wow. It’s enough to make you believe in miracles.

And, to continue the agreement, yes.

Yes
PS private schools DO suck from the state by being “charities”.

Yes. Especially up here where the question of what school you went to carries a whole different level of baggage.

Yes

But the difficulty is they are often “better” than non-faith schools, so very popular with parents. It would be a very brave (or foolish) politician who tried to abolish them.

It depends …
What do Momentum think?

What do Momentum think?

Based on the show of hands in this thread?

No.

Motion carried. No card vote necessary.

Yes

Yes and

PS private schools DO suck from the state by being “charities”.

this.

Ban all faith schools in Ireland where they have crippled the whole place and fostered intolerance for decades, in contrast they’re pretty harmless in the rest of the UK so leave them alone.

As said above, in the England/Scotland/Wales closing the best schools seems a monumental vote loser so I doubt anyone will be doing it any time soon.

Yes. Wrong in so many ways.

Too simplistic a question I think.

Church of Scotland: your children can’t come to this school!
Glasgow’s Catholic immigrant community: why not?
CoS: because you’re Catholics!
GCIC: oh, okay. Can we establish our own schools then?
CoS: if you must
GCIC: okay then

(years pass, Glasgow faith schools often outperform their ‘secular’ peers)

CoS: hey, why are you separating kids for primary school? Bigots!
GCIC: uhhh….

I can’t speak for faith schools in other cities, but in Glasgow you do not have to be Roman Catholic to attend a Catholic state school.

It’s also inaccurate to suggest that children educated at faith schools do not learn about other cultures and religions.

And as for private schools “not sucking much from the state” – who do you think has paid for the training and education of the majority of teachers employed in private schools?

Yes… but…

Yes – faith schools are simply a way of indoctrinating impressionable children and especially in the glasgow case entrench sectarianism.

As said above, in the England/Scotland/Wales closing the best schools seems a monumental vote loser so I doubt anyone will be doing it any time soon.

No one is suggesting closing the best schools – just making them a part of the mainstream

yes.

My youngest attends a faith school and my wife works in one.

Yes, they should be abolished.

Yes.

No one is suggesting closing the best schools – just making them a part of the mainstream

So just removing faith as a selection criteria, or preventing the teaching of all religions in any school or just the promotion of one religion over another?

I’m in favour of expanding the 50% rule to all schools, but (even as a semi-militant agnostic) I think they do have a place in society, as church (or temple or mosque) schools for the community that are open to all.

Mrs Dubs school is run by nuns and is nominally a Catholic school, but they are not exclusively Catholic. It’s a more of a community school with a Christian ethos (not the take everyones money and rape young boys way, more the be kind to each other thing)

Yes, my opinion is that people should be able to make their own minds up when they are ready and not have a religion forced on them as a child.

As a governor at a C of E school, I would take exception to them being classified as all being indoctrination factories, but, yes there is no rationale for them in this day and age.

Remove all aspects of faith from schools – selection and teaching bar comparative religion. If you want your kids to be taught your religion do it outside of school hours.

I went to a catholic school and arguably got a better, broader education than my primary school friends who all went to the local state Comp.
They were much better at fighting than me though as a result 😉

My Kids go to a catholic Primary school and hopefully will attend the Catholic high school too.
It is still a much better option than the other state schools in the area and I cant afford a private education for them.

EDIT: I should add, that although a catholic school, they learn a lot more about other cultures and religions than they would at the local state primary too

Discrimination is discrimination, even if its long standing and happened for perfectly legitimate historical reasons.

You have to ask why do religions want to educate children (at the taxpayers expense)?

They would always deny that “indoctrination” was the reason, but they sound like tobacco companies talking about advertising.

We don’t believe it really affects anyone.
Then why do you expend so much effort on it, and cry so loudly when we try to stop you doing it?
Just reasons.

My children go to a faith school and my wife teaches at a different one.

No.

Curious to know if there are any religious folk here who say yes?

If you want your kids to be taught your religion do it outside of school hours.

Nice try, some parents cant even teach their kids how to use the toilet

EDIT: I should add, that although a catholic school, they learn a lot more about other cultures and religions than they would at the local state primary too

Stop posting positive things about Faith Schools. Especially Catholic ones! This is STW.

I know,as a matter of fact, because I read it on here, that Catholic schools regularly send disruptive children for Exorcism.

I suspect that this falls into the camp of “simple solutions to difficult problems”, which rarely work out, so I’m going to with:

‘I’m not capable of giving an answer without much more careful study and thought’

ossify – I beleve saxonrider has come out against faith schools

Mashr – then they don’t ant them to learn about their religion then.

mashr,
Learning to go to the toilet is necessary
Learning (particularly) your parents religion is not.

Especially not at taxpayers expense.

So just removing faith as a selection criteria

Or more accurately removing attending church for several months prior to application as a selection criteria.

even as a semi-militant agnostic

How on earth does that work? Isn’t it a bit like calling radio phone-in shows to go “no comment”?

As a semi-militant atheist I have no problem with religion being taught in schools at an academic level. So I suppose, that’d be theology rather than R.E maybe? I don’t see how teaching “Christian people believe X, whereas Muslim people think Y” is particularly problematic.

What is problematic to my mind is teaching a single religion as fact, this simply has no place in a modern mainstream school. If parents want to indoctrinate their kids then whilst I don’t personally agree with it that’s their choice, but it should be an extracurricular activity.

What is problematic to my mind is teaching a single religion as fact, this simply has no place in a modern mainstream school.

Is that happening now, in 2019? Really? It certainly didn’t happen to me in the 80s.

No.