The 29Gnarr – Genius or insanity?

It does seem like a mildly complicated answer to a problem that doesn’t really exist. Got an Alfine’d bike and whilst it might feel slightly different I can’t say it holds me back – but I use it as a wheels on the ground mud plugger and I’m a big enough lad to muscle it around. The faff of tensioning 2 chains and extra components to wear does not seem worth the hassle.

You long baggies wearers are also surely going to catch the hem in that upper chain/sprocket interface?

This is one of my old bikes… ideas deserve to be tried.

does an alfine hub really weigh more than a XT cassette, hub and derailleur?

Getting the gears to fit into an EBB or similar would be genius .Using a cassette system so it can be slide out to service it

does an alfine hub really weigh more than a XT cassette, hub and derailleur?

yes, claimed weight is 1590g, tested weight is 1700g+ (that’s the 11spd – 8spd more). XT components come to around 1000g.

yes, claimed weight is 1590g, tested weight is 1700g+ (that’s the 11spd – 8spd more). XT components come to around 1000g.

XT cassette, hub and derailleur 1kg?

seems you are correct going from weight weenies – in fact less than 1kg

Rear D – 230g
Hub – 400g
Cassette – 290g

would save a bit of weight with alfine due to shorter chain and spokes – but not a lot

so about 1/2 a bag of suger more for the alfine

would make sense to fit inside a EBB / in bottom bracket area..

like multi speed mountain drive etc

In fact, why did Ted make his own hub?

If you take the Alfine off and flip the rear wheel, you have a SS bike in the ‘normal’ mode of propulsion.

Which I thought was another solution to a problem I didn’t know I would have if I owned such a bike. For which I once more applaud him for getting all of that to work. More!

Forgive me for possibly being a bit clueless on this, but wouldn’t it have been a shitload less faffing about to just put the crank on the other side?

Only if you use ine of those LH drive Alfines… Whats that? it doesn’t exist? Oh… 🙄

Nice excecution of what is now a pretty old idea with debatable benefits, but we’re getting caught up in the detail when it’s all about the Beards and Hats…

I still think theres some milage in a derailleur based Gearbox but that’s deeply unfashionable thesedays, the only real emerging “Standard” – the G-Conn or whatever it’s called doesn’t do it for me big lumpy and clearly designed by Germans…

I applaud anyone who has an idea and acts on it though…

just use a mech please and take the ugly bike away whilst you are at it.

Nicolai put their gearbox in this position to decrease sprung weight(?);

CZ … wrong way round. The frame and in this case the Alfine are supported by the suspension so are sprung weight. Putting the Alfine in the frame will increase sprung weight but decrease unsprung weight which is the holy grail. 😉

also a lot of people are saying its good engineering because it creates a solution to a non existent problem. I would say that is bad engineering by the very definition of engineering. maybe good craftsmanship but not engineering.

Only if you use ine of those LH drive Alfines… Whats that? it doesn’t exist? Oh… 🙄

You’re going on my list, buddy 😛

The problem was wanting gears with a freewheel and fixed for playing on.
http://www.pro-elbows.co.uk/2012/03/bespoked-bristol-ted-james-designs.html

Homepage

his website does prove he can make nice looking bikes as well

his mums bike:

At least he painted over the welds on his mum’s bike 😉

In a room full of designs that have changed little since the 50s it was nice to see something different.

It doesn’t matter if it’s not an ideal solution or not

Having seen the photos of the 29Gnar and understanding the reason behind it, yes it’s kind’ve a solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist, but fair play to him for giving it a go anyway just to show he can do it. Weight balance was less of an issue for Nicolai when they originally put a gear hub in the frame, it was about reducing unsprung mass, and with a hardtail you don’t have any sprung mass really!

Anyway, clicked on his site link just to have a look as I’ve never heard of him before… Wow! He really does have an eye for detail! None of it is really my thing per se, but still…

and with a hardtail you don’t have any sprung mass really!

It is, kinda, if you imagine a force pushing the rear wheel upwards, the bike will pivot arround your feet (the heaviest thing on the bike is you), so moving stuff to be closer to the BB will help as it doesn’t have to move as far to absorb an impact.

Simialalry although a swingarm is unsprung mass, you only need to really worry about the end nearest the wheel, eg race cars put the disks inboard even though it weighs more, the weight’s in a better place. And ducati’s 1199 is supposed to be much more centralised (to the point here is no frame, just a subframe for the seat and the headstock similarly at the front, swingarm bolts to the engine as well!) which makes it easier to turn becasue all that mass isn’t having to pivot arround the center of the bike, it is the center of the bike.

I have one thing to say, Ted’s hat was awesome!

Great show, i don’t often have beard envy but i did on saturday, down with mainstream i say, up with innovation and quirkiness!

if you imagine a force pushing the rear wheel upwards, the bike will pivot arround your feet

Tempted to say, the bike will pivot around the front wheel.

Rear D – 230g
Hub – 400g
Cassette – 290g

Plus…
Front D
Front shifter
Rear shifter cable
Rear shifter

My point is, that the complete Alfine system replaces a complete front and rear derailleur system. I have one on my road bike, and while the weight is no issue, you can feel it behind you which is initially weird. We’re Nikolai doing something like this? Yes, here it is [Pinion]:

Pinkbike’s take: On our quick spin we came away with the overall impression that the Pinion felt very normal. This may sound anticlimactic, but it’s actually very important, it feels like a system you could live with

I do like it, but it looks almost like I welded it, and I’m the worst welder in christendom.

Same idea, but done ages ago, and in a much better way, for much better reasons. Looks sick too.

The world used to be made up of those that do , and those who don’t now we have a third group those who just talk,
Ted is a do,er and without people like this there wouldnt be a show like bespoked ,

I spoke to him on saturday evening the idea behind his bike was that he could ride to locations with a normal bike with gears when he got there he could reverse the wheel and transform the bike into a fixed gear trick bike to do what those guys do,
So I would say he has done the job and done it well it may not be fully finished And as he was still welding it up on the Thursday night Friday morning before the show,

The world used to be made up of those that do , and those who don’t now we have a third group those who just talk,

thats very polite 🙂

Why thank you Brant I wouldn’t want to upset anyone ,

To quote myself earlier:

Stop being a naysayer and pissing on new ideas.

To all those naysayers and doom-mongers.
Change is as good as a rest and all that.

Where do people get alfine gear boxes from?

All the ones I’ve seen don’t look like hubs with the spoke flanges machined off.

While you can obviously applause the craftsmanship of the bike and the originality of the idea, I, too, can’t help but wonder what is the point?
The combination of rear mech/cassette works a treat. I have yet to have a problem with a mech/cassette that is not user error. It’s simple, you don’t have to change all when one part breaks, it requires very little maintenance.
So thumb up for him to try new thing, even if I can see very little interest in it.

Juan have you actualy read the whole of the thread the reason for building is mentioned at least twice, I’ll give you a clue it has nothing to do with replacing rear mech etc, but I won’t waste anymore of my time

Tip of the day,,,,, read the whole thread before adding to it

He should if used the 3speed Sturmey fixed hub… gears and fixed

There was some interesting design on display at the show, this was a good example of someone doing something just because he could and that has got to be a good thing, if everyone in the world thought like some of the people on this thread we’d still be pointing at the moon thinking it was made of cheese.
On the niccolai with chain and disk on the same side, how the he’ll are you supposed to keep chain lube from contaminating the disk and pads? There is a bike crying out for a belt drive.

markenduro – Nicoali do do a lot of work with Gates belts. The problem with the belt is maintaining constant tension through the movement of the suspension as the belt can’t be bent backwards, so conventional chain-devices are out. At present, the only way to do it is a coaxial pivot and BB (or front drive sprocket in the G-Boxx case)

Which is how I’ve got a belt on my Kona A 🙂

I’ve got an idea for a suitable tensioner which intend to build if I ever find the time.

Ir, I now have a commencal absolut sx, expect belt drive questions imminently… If you don’t mind that is.

thepodge – my email address is in my profile 🙂

Cool, thanks