That new 29er Hardtail in the px/on one news letter

Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 151 total)
  • That new 29er Hardtail in the px/on one news letter
  • Premier Icon lcj
    Subscriber

    The new [insert name here] looks just what I’m after. Except for the boost bit. Please don’t do that Brant, or at least offer a non-boost version so that decent kit that just doesn’t happen to be fashionable can be kept going!

    And agreed on the raw finish. Please do do that.

    Thank you. Please.

    Premier Icon weeksy
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    Non boost for me, colour I don’t care, I’ll have one of them.

    slimjim78
    Member

    Raw is fine with me

    Need to buy wheel sets.

    Hope I’m not prying too much into insider stuff that you don’t want to reveal (do say, if so) but is boost that much of a benefit when buying wheelsets! The parts at retail still seem to carry a premium over non boost, for instance

    If you want to experiment, I’d go for a set of those forks in non-boost and about 490mm a-c. Much nicer looking than what’s out there at the moment.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    cromolyolly

    It would be interesting to know how much difference there is in the raw material price

    It won’t just be material costs, though. Some of these are also harder to work with. They’re also just used less which means less expertise out there to do things for you. And I suspect that to get the best out of them- and why do it, if you don’t plan to- then you need to sweat the design a lot more which probably means more actual prototypes which is time and money

    Also frankly people will have higher expectations of magic steel. Not all of those will be reasonable, or even realistic, or really based in fact at all but still. If you buy a cromo frame and the finish turns out to be weak, or every ride doesn’t inspire you to write poetry, you’re less likely to lose your shit about it than if you bought an 853 ego chariot.

    Premier Icon Poopscoop
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    In very much with the non boost argument too.

    Loads of well priced (new/ used) non boost stuff around making the build a great value/budget option…. Though a bling build is still an option of course!

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    Shouldn’t boost be quite replacable-dropoutable? Which is something On One have a bit of history with, even if they kind of sucked at it.

    It won’t just be material costs, though

    Yes, Fair point. Although I’d have thought that given there is a relatively small number of frame makers in Taiwan, they must be pretty experienced at cranking out just about any material you care to mention. Plus their production engineering types must be able to give good advice. All the other costs would be spread across the product run so wouldn’t add up to a huge amount per unit – I’d guess we were talking 10s of pounds per unit not 100s.

    Your last point is very likely the biggest cost. Which I tend to lump in with marketing. Use a higher grade because it’s more marketable (to a certain segment) so you can mark up a bigger margin, but using the higher grade puts up your cost so you have to markup even more to maintain the margin.

    hols2
    Member

    All the other costs would be spread across the product run so wouldn’t add up to a huge amount per unit – I’d guess we were talking 10s of pounds per unit not 100s.

    About 15 years ago, I got talking to an American guy who had a small company selling hardtails that his partner in Eastern Europe produced. His aluminium frames were in the $1000 range, IIRC, but he reckoned that Giant could produce an aluminium frame for about $50. Obviously, that will vary a lot because the lightweight aluminium frames will be trickier to weld and heat-treat and carbon frames will require a lot of labour, but his point was that having a high-tech factory set up to churn out millions of frames makes it impossible for small volume makers to compete on price because of labour costs.

    Premier Icon dangeourbrain
    Subscriber

    I don’t like to say it but I really can’t see a good reason to not go boost on a frame these days. Same as most of the nay sayers I’ve got a garage full of non boost wheels but, making them “boost” is a few pounds of adapter, you can’t do that the other way around. Boost is here and current ish, non-boost is old hat, offers no benefit over boost and unlike 148 does limit your choices.

    his partner in Eastern Europe produced.

    I may be way off but I thought that was an rare in small frame outfits. I thought most had them made in the same factories in Taiwan that giant/trek/specialized use, or the next tier or two down in size (like sick bikes were doing, in theory). I thought genuinely boutique frame makers were rare. So that should change the cost structure significantly. Obviously you would get the kind if deals the truly big outfits will because you can’t offer the volume but you can benefit from their ability to build efficiently.

    damascus
    Member

    My preference on a new frame in order.

    1) changeable drop outs

    2) boost drop outs, it future proofs the frame. Boost kits are available.

    3) 142 drop out.

    Please don’t use any funny standard like qr boost or boost plus

    Premier Icon lcj
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    making them “boost” is a few pounds of adapter

    Assuming that such an adaptor is available – not so with Hope Pro 2, for instance?

    Premier Icon Bigmantrials
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    Assuming that such an adaptor is available – not so with Hope Pro 2, for instance?

    Kits are available that will work for pretty much any hub that is 142mm, they usually consist of either 2 x 3mm or 1 x 6mm spacers for the axle and approproate spacer for the disc, I am running this exact setup on a 142mm SRAM X0 hub in my Genesis Tarn boost frame with no issues.

    JackHammer
    Member

    Take my money.

    Premier Icon holdsteady
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    Looks like what I am after – something reasonably similar to the Pinnacle Ramin 3+ but in steel – 29er/650B+ compatible, lots of bottle bosses on frame and fork. EBB would be nice.

    Premier Icon dangeourbrain
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    not so with Hope Pro 2, for instance?

    As far as I know the hope adapter kits work just fine on Pro ii wheels, despite saying pro ii evo and pro 4. They’re just spacer kits.

    Otherwise there are loads of generic third party ones and even CL can be adapted but you need to adapt them to IS 6 bolt rotors at the same time.

    But to brant’s question swappable (properly ss-able) would be awesome

    Premier Icon lcj
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    Thanks dangeourbrain, that’s interesting to know. I was basing my thoughts on a previous STW thread that had concluded they weren’t compatible.

    Would still rather non-boost though for ease!

    montgomery
    Member

    External cable routing, full outer cable runs.

    No funny dropouts or EBBs – keep the costs and weight down, minimise potential creaks.

    Threaded BB shell, bog standard tapered headtube.

    Boost spacing – a subset of people (like me) would be buying one to ‘upgrade’ from the 26″ bikes they’re still on, and won’t want to buy into a non-boost wheel standard that’s already dead and buried.

    Do that and I’d buy one. It’d be a cheap, solid, easily maintained, updated, relatively future-proofed version of the 26″ bike I’m riding now.

    Premier Icon miketually
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    It’d be a cheap, solid, easily maintained, updated, relatively future-proofed version of the 26″ bike I’m riding now.

    That’s how I see it – it’s like a 90s MTB that’s had the good technology added of the last couple of decades added, but none of the extraneous stuff.

    montgomery
    Member

    Oh. And Afrika Korps camouflage, please. Failing that, matt grey.

    Premier Icon brant
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    External cable routing, full outer cable runs.

    No funny dropouts or EBBs – keep the costs and weight down, minimise potential creaks.

    Threaded BB shell, bog standard tapered headtube.

    Boost spacing – a subset of people (like me) would be buying one to ‘upgrade’ from the 26″ bikes they’re still on, and won’t want to buy into a non-boost wheel standard that’s already dead and buried.

    Do that and I’d buy one. It’d be a cheap, solid, easily maintained, updated, relatively future-proofed version of the 26″ bike I’m riding now.

    Sorted.

    (well except for the headtube which is 44mm straight headtube, but yeah)

    cogwomble
    Member

    Sounds like it’ll just be a no-nonsense way into buying a steel frame. Makes perfect sense (if you want to shift units) to make it boost spaced, especially as the adaptor things are so cheap. It IS getting harder to find non boost hub spacing, the market drives it with new bikes, which means cheap sets will come up more and more as folk upgrade too.

    montgomery
    Member

    And a proper long headtube in the XL size. Boils my piss when companies don’t do that.

    slimjim78
    Member

    Matt grey sounds nice actually. Or gloss grey, like currently seen on the new Mini/Audi/Skoda ranges..

    My final thought on frame, please lower the cable mounting point nearest the headtube, my fork valve caps strike the cable guide on my Ti 29er on full lock, and the tight angle that the cables enter the guide forces the cables tight up against the headtube/lower headset cup.

    justaname
    Member

    That looks absolutely ace, any ideas when it’ll be available?

    unovolo
    Member

    Are we suggesting names still?

    then….

    Biffins Bridge or The Gooch.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    dangeourbrain

    Subscriber

    I don’t like to say it but I really can’t see a good reason to not go boost on a frame these days.

    I think there’s definitely a market for “frames to put my old stuff in that ride like new stuff”, and On One are probably quite well placed to capitalise on that with their traditional rep. Whereas the “everything must be the latest and greatest” market are probably less inclined to buy their stuff.

    hols2

    Member

    he reckoned that Giant could produce an aluminium frame for about $50.

    Maybe, provided the factory was free.

    wiggles
    Member

    Sounds ideal for my next bike have a few spare bits but no wheels or forks so boost seems like the best option to me.

    widge34
    Member

    Cant beat a bit of Reynolds 853 for a compliant frame. Lighter and more flexible than 4130cr

    andykirk
    Member

    Unless I am mistaken, which is probably the case, there is nothing on the market available as frame only that has:
    – Lightweight Alu Frame
    – 100-120 fork
    – 480-500 reach in XL
    – 68 degree head angle
    – 29×2.4/6 clearance
    – Internal routing (sorry but I like the clean lines)
    I hope the new Scandal can be all this… in a clearcoat/ raw kind of way.

    EDIT The Nicolai Argon GB maybe…. but by golly do you pay for it.

    Premier Icon dangeourbrain
    Subscriber

    I think there’s definitely a market for “frames to put my old stuff in that ride like new stuff”,

    I agree there is a market but
    (a) I personally don’t see it being big enough to make it one I’d want to pursue (not least as that is also very often the “I want fantastic but don’t want to spend any money” market too). I’m not brant or px/oo though so their opinions may differ.
    (b)boost works just fine with a few £ of adapter for almost all 142×12 or 100×15 wheels so the “old stuff” will work just dandy for any one willing to pay £5 per end for some spacers, for those who won’t, see my huge generalisation in point (a).
    (c) the only kit that can’t be adapted to boost is cl rotors and qr* only wheels which won’t work with 142 either and building a 135×10 frame these days would be as daft as qr boost or some such silliness.

    *other “old” or odd standards such as fat bike hubs are available but not exactly common.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
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    Boost spacing – a subset of people (like me) would be buying one to ‘upgrade’ from the 26″ bikes they’re still on, and won’t want to buy into a non-boost wheel standard that’s already dead and buried.

    I see your point. But then you’re throwing away a perfectly good hub which is probably the biggest proportion of the price of the wheel set.

    Reusing an old hope Xc is saving £150 (the cost of the frame) and there is zero need for bolt through stiffness on a hardtail.

    My pro2’s I can convert. But it’s still spending money on something unnecessary when you include the cost of an axle etc.

    montgomery
    Member

    In my case, 12 year old Pro IIs, 9mm QR, 36 spokes, built into bomber wheels. Makes no sense cutting the hubs out to bodge them into one of the very limited selection of 36h rims now available. I’d rather keep using them on an appropriate frame. I appreciate that’s a specific position to be in, but I think the general point still stands about Boost adaptor kits and buying into an obsolete wheel standard.

    Premier Icon johnnystorm
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    widge34

    Member
    Cant beat a bit of Reynolds 853 for a compliant frame. Lighter and more flexible than 4130cr

    If you use the same diameter tubing with the same wall thickness I’m not sure that’s the case.

    damascus
    Member

    Brant, will the 29er Scandal (or what ever you call it) be available on pre order? If so, any ideas on when? Thanks

    Premier Icon hugo rune
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    And will it be single-speedable?

    Premier Icon epicyclo
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    hugo rune

    And will it be single-speedable?

    Important question! The very roots of On-One are single speed, so don’t abandon it.

    It’s also useful for geriatric singlespeeders who are going soft and fitting decadently wimpish accessories such as hub gears.

    cokie
    Member

    Unless I am mistaken, which is probably the case, there is nothing on the market available as frame only that has:
    – Lightweight Alu Frame
    – 100-120 fork
    – 480-500 reach in XL
    – 68 degree head angle
    – 29×2.4/6 clearance
    – Internal routing (sorry but I like the clean lines)
    I hope the new Scandal can be all this… in a clearcoat/ raw kind of way.

    Whyte have shot themselves in the foot again with selling completes only.
    Their 629 & 529 (same frame) have all those covered, plus through axles. Although fantastic price complete, they could be super competitive if they where frame only.
    I might get another 529 as a winter hardtail.

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
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    Kits are available that will work for pretty much any hub that is 142mm, they usually consist of either 2 x 3mm or 1 x 6mm spacers for the axle and approproate spacer for the disc,

    great way to add flex and weight to further compromise fitting the wrong size hub into a frame not designed for it though.

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