That ICEdot thing in Fresh Goods.

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  • That ICEdot thing in Fresh Goods.
  • IanMunro
    Member

    Presumably the device contains an accelerometer, cpu, bluetooth module and a battery.

    Things that all appear to exist in a phone that it connects to?

    IanMunro
    Member

    It has its limitations, but seems to work pretty well across most of the Lakes, Dales and even southern Highlands. Oh, and its free.
    Network dependent.

    Slightly related but I read recently a fell runners solution was to use an pay as you go SIM from Ireland as when used in the UK it will switch to roaming and use whatever network it could find.

    Premier Icon GavinB
    Subscriber

    It has its limitations, but seems to work pretty well across most of the Lakes, Dales and even southern Highlands. Oh, and its free.
    Network dependent.

    Fair enough – we’re both on VF and it mostly updates itself within 2-3 minutes, otherwise it just shows the last known position, and how long ago that location was valid. Seems fine for keeping a check on where someone is on a solo ride/run.

    Just remember to switch it off if making a cheeky run to the pub!

    Sui
    Member

    Asterix, I’ve used industrial type ones which is where the design for this comes from, they are called lone worker alarms. This is no different, however it has to recognise that your sudden stop, loss in hight etc is not an actual accident please do tell me how it does this??? It’s designed for roadies and canal paths and that’s it. Apps which in effect act as route cards are far safer.

    Premier Icon paulosoxo
    Subscriber

    There’s a road I’d app that can alert people if you don’t arrive back before a certain time. It’s free too.

    https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/road-id/id569352341?mt=8

    It also displays your ICE details on your home screen.

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
    Subscriber

    This is no different, however it has to recognise that your sudden stop, loss in hight etc is not an actual accident please do tell me how it does this???

    The sudden deceleration triggers the app; I gather there’s a count-down (which can be stopped) until the distress signal is sent.

    maxtorque
    Member

    IanMunro
    Presumably the device contains an accelerometer, cpu, bluetooth module and a battery.

    Things that all appear to exist in a phone that it connects to?

    Fair point! Why do we need to buy another set of those items when we carry them around already in our smartphone?

    Surely, just an App would do, you’d get GPS, Accelerometer, Text messaging GPRS, everything you wanted?

    I guess in a really big crash, perhaps they were worried you’d smash your phone? (then again, that would stop this device working too??)

    Like all these electronic widgets, they are a bit of a fad imo. We’ve managed fine for the last couple of thousand years without them, so i think we’ll survive……..

    maxtorque
    Member

    BTW, i don’t see that the recognising the accident acceleration profile is the critical bit, it’s the bit where you don’t move at all for the next x minutes that’s important!

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    Paul wrote:

    Fair point! Why do we need to buy another set of those items when we carry them around already in our smartphone?
    Surely, just an App would do, you’d get GPS, Accelerometer, Text messaging GPRS, everything you wanted?

    I’d think that a dedicated GPSR would use less battery than a Smartphone? I’d really need to see some statistics showing phone battery life with the various radios (GPSR, Bluetooth, GPRS) switched on and off to get some idea.

    Personally, I like the idea of keeping my phone safe and secure and not running the batteries down – just in case I actually need to use it in an emergency. Having another device that does route logging etc doesn’t therefore bother me and, like I said above, for multi-day rides, everything needs to be working off replaceable batteries (or you’re going to need to rig up some solar/dynamo charging system).

    Sui
    Member

    he sudden deceleration triggers the app; I gather there’s a count-down (which can be stopped) until the distress signal is sent.

    Sorry my badly worded sentence. I appreciate it will have a deccelerometer but my point was, how does it know you haven’t carried on your merry way instead of dead. It would have to have a fairly sophisticated set of algorithms to know what was actually going on. If indeed it is delayed triggered, that means it will need resetting every time you hit a Bombhole, drop, jump etc

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    I’d think that a dedicated GPSR would use less battery than a Smartphone? I’d really need to see some statistics showing phone battery life with the various radios (GPSR, Bluetooth, GPRS) switched on and off to get some idea.
    Personally, I like the idea of keeping my phone safe and secure and not running the batteries down – just in case I actually need to use it in an emergency. Having another device that does route logging etc doesn’t therefore bother me and, like I said above, for multi-day rides, everything needs to be working off replaceable batteries (or you’re going to need to rig up some solar/dynamo charging system).

    The point isn’t to track where you’ve been, but to report where you are, and when you’re not moving, after decreasing acceleration rapidly.

    I reckon I could knock up an app to do that, as all the functions needed are exposed by Google’s API.

    Seems silly to me to have a device which is tightly coupled to another device, which provides the ability to replicates it’s capabilities. And doesn’t cost £130.

    Any of the reasons to not use a mobile phone for this specific use, also apply to using a separate device. Although as an additional con for a separately paired Bluetooth device, you need to have another radio switched on, and BT is pretty power hungry.

    As another option, I’d provide an encapsulated device – I think it’s one or the other, personally, and a more elegant solution.

    NINJA EDIT 🙂 🙂 🙂

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    Mmmmm…. Beer.

    The main advantage I can see is the positional element of the shock sensor. This device goes on the head whereas a phone tends to be cushioned in a pocket. Wear your phone on your lid and it’s not an issue 😀

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    wrote:

    The main advantage I can see is the positional element of the shock sensor. This device goes on the head whereas a phone tends to be cushioned in a pocket. Wear your phone on your lid and it’s not an issue

    Where is the sensor most likely to get damaged if you fall and hit your head?

    Wait, is that a trick question?

    From fresh goods:

    Fix it to your helmet, pair it with your phone

    Where else do you put it to detect a head impact? I’m generally conscious enough to call for help myself after hitting other body parts.

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    Mrs S and I use

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fsp.android.friendlocator&hl=en

    it’s pretty accurate and up to date, obviously requiring a data connection. YOu can “Check in”, send a panic alert, or a quick preset message. You can click on a “friend” icon and see on a map where they are. It’s free but obviously limited to user commands rather than automated responses.

    Chips – it can tell the difference between ‘jumping up and down’ and ‘helmet dropped onto the ground’

    Sui – means it will need resetting every time you hit a Bombhole, drop, jump etc

    Seems they’ve already thought of everything you’ve managed to rubbish it with in 5 minutes over a few months of product development. Why are you so negative about it?

    After a couple of crashes this year at relatively minor speeds* that really could have left me immobile I’m very tempted by it.

    *once exiting a bombhole completely misjudged my speed and really pumped it and flew into the air rotating forewards, flat landing pretty much square on my head. Propper “ohhh **** this is it” moment, “I’m, going to snap my neck clean in two”. Second, fire road corner, front wheel sliped and I hit the ground, rolled, and broke my arm (and finger, and shoulder) at about 5 mph!

    IanMunro
    Member

    Where else do you put it to detect a head impact? I’m generally conscious enough to call for help myself after hitting other body parts.

    Heart attacks?
    You don’t really need to detect head impacts. You just need to detect a greater than 45 degree roll followed by zero movement afterwards.
    And if that roll is caused say by you just taking off your back pack and lobbing it on the ground, then the app can just start beeping after a couple of minutes until you jog the bag and thus tell the app your still awake.

    chives
    Member

    TINAS – your bombhole crash was pretty much me two weeks ago (spent 8hrs in A&E flat on my back in a neck brace) luckily it was a race so plenty of help immediately available. However, I had my phone in my jersey pocket, and bent it during the off. I think the ICE thing is great in principal, but I’d worry about a lack of reception or destroying my phone or that device during an off.

    iolo
    Member

    Haters always gonna hate.
    Cash up front plus a subscription fee for something I’ve managed without is my gripe.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    Presumably the device contains an accelerometer, cpu, bluetooth module and a battery.

    Things that all appear to exist in a phone that it connects to?

    That was my thought really. I suppose the only real benefit to the ICEspot is that its directly detecting the forces applied to your noggin while a phone will detect the acceleration/deceleration applied to the bag or pocket you stick it in.

    I guess you could develop an App that makes use of the various features found on most smartphones now to detect and sudden stop or impacts or and or a prolonged period at rest. Such things already exist. So is this thing really worth the price tag?

    ninfan
    Member

    I think the best point made is that the sensor only works if you crash and bang your head, while the other telephone apps seem to work if you haven’t moved for X amount of time for any reason, which makes them a better safety device as they cover more possibilities.

    crikey
    Member

    Presumably this will cut down on the epidemic of cyclists who get stuck for days out in the wilds of Surrey, injured and unable to get back to civilisation?

    Or maybe, just maybe, it’s pandering to that subsection of cyclists who regard what they do as some kind of danger filled adventure?

    TJ famously suggested that most ‘mountain biking’ is the equivalent of pony trekking by bike…

    🙄

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I think people have missed a few things about this device;

    1) It uses the newer bluetooth connections – this isn’t ‘always on’ like a traditional bluetooth connection so battery drain on the phone is very small. It’s why it only works with the new iphones and (will) work with Android 4.3.

    2) By using a separate accelerometer etc again the battery on the phone is protected – it only ‘wakes up’ the phone to do a gps fix etc if it detects ‘an accident’ so the phone.

    The phone is basically ‘asleep’ until the device activates it so battery life should be good when if it’s actually needed to do the emergency call/text.

    Like all these beacon type things it’s down to personal choice, do you not worry, do you go for a ‘find me if there’s a problem’ or an alert people that there is a problem approach? If you choose either of the latter then anything that minimises phone battery use so that it’s available when needed has to be worth a look?

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    Sorry my badly worded sentence. I appreciate it will have a deccelerometer but my point was, how does it know you haven’t carried on your merry way instead of dead. It would have to have a fairly sophisticated set of algorithms to know what was actually going on. If indeed it is delayed triggered, that means it will need resetting every time you hit a Bombhole, drop, jump etc

    Why would it need complex algorithms?

    Big deceleration, followed by no movement for x minutes = countdown begins.
    Big deceleration, followed by continuing movement (ie carrying on riding) = resets and carries on as normal.

    Premier Icon MadBillMcMad
    Subscriber

    philfive,

    It is plan B but sadly only works with luddite versions of android

    IanMunro
    Member

    I just looked at the sensor api for android. Clearly some geeks at work there 🙂
    http://developer.android.com/reference/android/hardware/SensorManager.html#GRAVITY_DEATH_STAR_I

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