Thanks for the useless diagram

Viewing 27 posts - 41 through 67 (of 67 total)
  • Thanks for the useless diagram
  • Enlightening how many people think things are obvious to everyone because it happens to be obvious to them. Male brain?….

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    Heaven help them when they’re changing pedals then!

    No, better diagrams help them 🙂

    Seriously, I see this all the time*, this is my job. People make stuff which users don’t fully understand, and one of the main causes of the problem is the Curse of Knowledge: when the people making the stuff think something is obvious, but the users don’t.

    It’s one of the reasons why user research is central to good design: you get to find out that the things everyone thought were obvious aren’t. You also try to understand why that is, then you design a way to fix it, then you test it again—you don’t just go “well if they can’t cope with task X, then they’re screwed for task Y” and walk away. (Try testing the above diagram by giving half a dozen randomly chosen bicycle owners a fully dismantled bottom bracket and a bike upended on its saddle and handlebars: if not one of them struggles I’ll eat my pedal spanner.)

    * not least whenever I try to use this website 😀

    wtf buys 2nd hand BB’s btw!

    I’ve quite often transferred BBs between frames, and I’ve quite often stored BBs in a box for a a long while before needing to fit them again. I suspect in the past I’ve bought secondhand chainsets with BBs included, too.

    If you buy a NOS/OEM/unboxed one from eBay or wherever then it might turn up in a slightly different arrangement to a box-fresh retail one, too, I guess.

    BruceWee
    Member

    You have to remember that many bike shops have component fetishist gremlins lurking. When I worked in the shop it seemed like every part had been taken out its box, removed from it’s plastic bag, fondled, and then put back into it’s box with the plastic stuffed in afterwards.

    PJay
    Member

    I agree that putting L-R or Drive Side on the diagram would make sense.

    If I recall correctly, the only instructions that came with my BB directed me to the Shimano website for installation instructions, which I found in the form of a number of Dealers’ Manuals.

    The diagram I found was:

    The text to the right does make it possible to work out the left & right sides, but again simply orientating the diagram would be the simplest option:

    “If using three 2.5mm spacers with a
    band type and a bottom bracket shell
    having a width of 68mm, install the
    three spacers so that there are two on
    the right and one on the left.

    scotroutes
    Member

    Does it not say on the instructions “should be installed by a competent mechanic”? If not, maybe it should.

    croe
    Member

    It’s a great diagram, filters out the people who would struggle to tell what way to turn the pedals once installed without taking lessons first. An understated safety feature!

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    “I’m pretty handy with a spanner, and anyone who isn’t must be fundamentally thick, so we should carry on making sure there are these little barriers in the way of them becoming handy with a spanner.”

    BruceWee
    Member

    Does it not say on the instructions “should be installed by a competent mechanic”? If not, maybe it should.

    Regardless of experience there was a time for every mechanic when they had to install an external BB for the first time.

    Premier Icon sirromj
    Subscriber

    BTW, the bike this BB is now sucessfully fitted to, I bought as frame only, and transferred most of the parts from my old bike to the new frame, with the addition of a few new parts. I’ve been riding it twice a day 5 days a week for the past six months without any mechanical issue other than wear and tear.

    Have you ever seen House plans without a little compass in the corner indicating which way is north?
    No. Thought not.

    belugabob
    Member

    For those who are saying it’s obvious – that’s easy to say when you know,
    The point that the OP is trying to make (I think) is that a simple addition to the diagram ( Such as ‘L’ & ‘R’ ) would remove all doubt.

    Other examples of this are…

    ‘Lefty loosely, righty tighty’ – when tightening a bolt. What, exactly, is going left or right, FFS?

    A bag of microwaveable rice, with ‘this side up’ printed on it. This is useless if you put that side down, without noticing. Should have been ‘this side down’ on the other side.

    There are lots of examples, in general life, where a little bit more thought would save a load of confusion.

    Premier Icon dangeourbrain
    Subscriber

    I agree that putting L-R

    Would be very bad. Left when right way up or inverted?

    TiRed
    Member

    wtf buys 2nd hand BB’s btw!

    Had several come with used groupsets I’ve bought, most recently with a Rotor SRM crankset with BB30BSA. Rather pleasingly, we now can read the L-R and even directions for tighten on the shells which is a huge improvement.

    Of course a Kestrel doesn’t have a seat tube 😉

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    Left when right way up or inverted?

    To be fair, the cups have L and R marked on them so it would match up with that and they can’t* be fitted the wrong way round, but a fair point—things like showing the drivetrain on the diagram may work better.

    * I realise the obvious caveat to this

    Premier Icon dangeourbrain
    Subscriber

    * I realise the obvious caveat to this

    Italian cups in bsa frame?

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    Have you ever seen House plans without a little compass in the corner indicating which way is north?
    No. Thought not.

    Can we have an ‘it depends who drew the plans’ option?

    Lots have magnetic/north and site north. Site north often being quite a long way from actual north but makes the plans more convenient to orientate. E.g. building a house on a riverbank where the river flows towards the SE. Site north would probably be about 45deg and the river at the top or bottom of the page.

    So in that case, yes you do have to put a compass rose on the drawing.

    Doesn’t help the OP though, what use would north be on the diagram!

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    Italian cups in bsa frame?

    That too, though I was thinking more generally about forcibly mashing any cup into an incompatible thread, eg getting English cups the wrong way round and just mullering it instead of stopping and thinking.

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    Doesn’t help the OP though, what use would north be on the diagram!

    What if there was a diagram showing that you should first attach your Garmin and switch it on? 🙂

    endomick
    Member

    Clearly the view is from below, hence the uninterrupted bb shell, and just to rub it in, my 7 year old nephew just worked it out.

    Premier Icon eddiebaby
    Subscriber

    Clearly the view is from below, hence the uninterrupted bb shell, and just to rub it in, my 7 year old nephew just worked it out.

    Does he work at Halfords by any chance?

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    I know how to fit a BB and the spacers. If I didn’t that diagram wouldn’t help.

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    It’s not an assumption, the drawing is an elevation, ie from above. Have you ever seen house plans, or any other plans for that matter from below? no, thought not.

    You are correct and many with tech drawing understanding would get it w/o 2nd thought, but customer-facing info that needs interpretation is a comms fail. It’s a diagram that’s missing key info because it was drawn by a techie or a CAD user not someone thinking with a customer’s eye view.

    Premier Icon hopkinsgm
    Subscriber

    I’d always thought of the diagram as being obvious, but:
    A) I guess when I first fitted an external BB, an E-type front mech was a reasonable possibility and there was a note detailing which spacer the front mech mount would take the place of. Made it a little clearer I guess. This was back in the dim and distant past before I had a workstand, so bikes usually did get

    bodged upside down on the floor

    B) I have an engineering background, and am reasonably familiar with looking at technical drawings and diagrams. Which leads us nicely to…

    It’s not an assumption, the drawing is an elevation, ie from above. Have you ever seen house plans, or any other plans for that matter…

    I don’t look at house plans all that often, but I believe they follow similar conventions to engineering drawings. For a typical engineering general arrangement drawing, an elevation would be a side view – e.g. showing levels in a pumping station, pipe routes on a skid mounted plant, or an external view of an equipment chamber sticking out of the ground. A view of something from above would usually be referred to as a plan view.

    nealglover
    Member

    Have you ever seen house plans, or any other plans for that matter from below? no, thought not.

    Have you even seen someone with their house turned upside down on the driveway fixing the sink ?
    No, thought not.

    Premier Icon Rubber_Buccaneer
    Subscriber

    Have you ever seen house plans, or any other plans for that matter from below?

    Well

    you fit parts to your bike with it upside down.

    Don’t all good mechanics flip the bike onto it’s handle bars and saddle for any serious work?

    Premier Icon sirromj
    Subscriber

    All this useless arguing is doing wonders for helping me remember which side the spacer goes on, thanks!

Viewing 27 posts - 41 through 67 (of 67 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.