Thanks for the useless diagram

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  • Thanks for the useless diagram
  • Premier Icon sirromj
    Subscriber

    Thanks Shimano for the useless diagram, it’s guaranteed to make my brain hurt every time I come to fit a new bottom bracket and realize I haven’t noted which side the spacer goes.

    If you can tell me which side it goes, that’d be great, or maybe supply some other examples of completely useless diagrams that cause brain ache?

    Insert Tab A in to Slot B.

    Isn’t it obvious?

    Premier Icon sirromj
    Subscriber

    I can’t say I’m currently orbiting it.

    Premier Icon dangeourbrain
    Subscriber
    Premier Icon sirromj
    Subscriber

    Drive side is on the right I guess. It’s obvious, but the diagram shows the frame from beneath where the drive side would be on the left?

    Premier Icon simondbarnes
    Subscriber

    That must be one of the most simple diagrams ever.

    68 & 83mm, 1 spacer NDS, 2 spacers DS

    73mm 1 spacer DS

    Premier Icon sirromj
    Subscriber

    But from what projection are we looking?

    whitestone
    Member

    I’d say the diagrams are looking down on the bottom bracket so are correctly “handed”.

    I just put the BB in and move things around if the chainline isn’t right.

    BearBack
    Member

    Also head scratching is shimanos diagram/explanation as to which direction to join a chain.

    scotroutes
    Member

    The spacer takes the place of an E-type mech. If you’re not using one then it’s one spacer on the drive side. If 3 are required then it’s two on the drive side, one non-drive side.

    Premier Icon sirromj
    Subscriber

    I’ve put it drive side now 😁

    So, same amount of the same spacers for 68mm and 83mm?

    croe
    Member

    As far as diagrams go, that’s a pretty simple and straightforward one.

    I’d suggest it was someonething else that was useless.

    Premier Icon nixie
    Subscriber

    Sorry diagram is so obvious. User error 😋.

    TiRed
    Member

    Why is that not a view of the BB she’ll from below? There is no seat tube indicated. The tube inside can be mounted to either side before insertion, only the cups are threaded for handedness orientation.

    And if that alien offers to shake your left hand?

    https://www2.lbl.gov/abc/wallchart/teachersguide/pdf/Chap05.pdf

    The universe is handed. Who knew?

    Premier Icon dangeourbrain
    Subscriber

    As far as diagrams go, that’s a pretty simple and straightforward one.

    I’d suggest it was someonething else that was useless.

    Just wait for the “my chain is too slack” post because its got 4 extra links in not 2…

    PJay
    Member

    For my Deore BB-M52 the cup with the sleeve is drive side which makes it fairly clear (I assume that this is standard for Shimano bottom brackets).

    Premier Icon nixie
    Subscriber

    The sleeve is not permanently attached to either cup so that’s not a good guide.

    My favourite is the diagram from the assembly instructions for those ubiquituous cheap square IKEA side tables. The last step illustrates the table being turned the right way up… as if you might have fully assembled it and then been confused as to why it wasn’t functioning as desired because the legs are pointing upwards.

    JoB
    Member

    PJay

    Member
    For my Deore BB-M52 the cup with the sleeve is drive side which makes it fairly clear (I assume that this is standard for Shimano bottom brackets).

    this
    out of the same box those instructions come in a Shimano bottom-bracket always has the sleeve attacked to the driveside cup, it’s not hard

    BruceWee
    Member

    So you’re fine so long as you only ever install BBs directly from the box?

    That diagram is not good. When I look at the picture my brain tells me I’m looking at the bike from below. However, since I know the spacer goes on the drive side I know it must be from the top.

    A diagram that requires you to already know what the diagram is supposed to be telling you is not a lot of use.

    JoB
    Member

    BruceWee

    Member
    So you’re fine so long as you only ever install BBs directly from the box?

    this is going to be the case in the vast majority of cases though isn’t it?

    unless you’re like the OP and come to fit a new bottom bracket and not noted which side the spacer goes on the old one, which is a lack of very basic mechanicing skills

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    Agreed, diagram like that should always note the view direction or inc L and R

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    Seems straight forward to me unless you fit parts to your bike with it upside down.

    Why is that not a view of the BB she’ll from below?

    Should always be from above, unless indicated.

    Very simple diagram.

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    For the sake of adding L and R they’ve got a diagram which relies on you either having a box-fresh BB (or one which by pure luck has the tube attached to the drive side cup) or being able to figure it out (in which case you probably didn’t need the diagram anyway). Two letters and the diagram works for everyone in every situation. It’s great if it seems obvious to you, but (quite clearly) it doesn’t to everyone.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    Why is that not a view of the BB she’ll from below?

    Because the instructions assume it’s being built by a mechanic in a workstand, not bodged upside down on the floor.

    Same reason the headset instructions probably don’t show it being tapped in with a hammer and torques are given in numerical values not “finger tight with a small hex key”.

    TiRed
    Member

    Because the instructions assume it’s being built by a mechanic in a workstand, not bodged upside down on the floor.

    Where’s the seat tube? Assumption is the mother of all cock-ups – well home maintenance ones. An L/R or just a circle indicated in the presence of a tube would help. New bare frame, used BB bought online from here with two cups and separate tube, no reference point…

    It’s not an assumption, the drawing is an elevation, ie from above. Have you ever seen house plans, or any other plans for that matter from below? no, thought not.

    BruceWee
    Member

    Even if it is obvious that the diagram is being viewed from the top because it’s in a workstand (I’m not 100% convinced by that logic but for the sake of argument let’s say it is) that still leaves the problem that the diagram looks like it is from the bottom given the fact there is no sign of the seat tube.

    It’s confusing. If you already know which side the spacers go on then of course it’s obvious but making a diagram that requires you to know what it is supposed to be telling you is pretty useless.

    And as for the ‘you’ll always be fitting them fresh from the box’ argument, relying on undisturbed perfect packaging is not a substitute for putting the words ‘Drive side’ on the diagram. It shouldn’t increase ink costs significantly.

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    It’s not an assumption, the drawing is an elevation, ie from above.

    But you’re apparently well-versed in the conventions of house plans etc.

    These instructions don’t just need to work for someone who’s familiar with planning applications, they need to work for any old sod in a shed who’s looking at a bicycle frame with a bottom bracket in their hand.

    That bicycle might be in a workstand, or it might be parked upside down on the floor. That person might be an experienced cycle mechanic, or a mechanically disinclined dad who can’t afford bike shop labour costs trying to fix his kid’s bike.

    The confused dad isn’t helped by someone on the internet saying it’s obvious to him. He’s helped by adding two letters to the diagram.

    In other words, you are making an assumption: you’re assuming that whoever is reading the instructions is as familiar with diagrams and/or bottom brackets as you are.

    BruceWee
    Member

    It’s not an assumption, the drawing is an elevation, ie from above. Have you ever seen house plans, or any other plans for that matter from below? no, thought not.

    Have you ever seen a bike viewed from above where you couldn’t see the seat tube? No, thought not.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    I had the wordy version of that on my old photobucket page because it was really useful!
    cos it has the front mech mount in one of the pics, makes it obv which is driveside.
    Here 🙂

    Premier Icon simondbarnes
    Subscriber

    Have you ever seen a bike viewed from above where you couldn’t see the seat tube?

    Yep. Most of the time the saddle obscures it.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    hang on.

    All these diagrams seem to show a cross section of the frame (hence no seat tube being included, threads being visible etc) but not of the actual BB.

    that’s just wrong

    Heaven help them when they’re changing pedals then!.

    Perhaps you want a saddle and dropper in that elevation as well then Brucie?. 🙂

    BruceWee
    Member

    Actually, I’d settle for the words ‘Drive side’. That would be simpler, wouldn’t you say?

    By the way, the diagram is not a ‘plan’. No one is going to be using it to machine parts. It’s an assembly aid so the view can be whatever makes the instructions clearest. Haynes manuals don’t restrict themselves to taking pictures from directly above.

    Fair enough, aye DS would be easier, but it’s really no hard to work out. You would think… 🙂

    wtf buys 2nd hand BB’s btw!

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