I’m 42 this year, felt sluggish, vague, loss of motivation for pretty much anything, fitness on the wain despite my attempts. I went to the docs who ran some tests, one of which being free testosterone levels. It’s came back @ 5.4. Pretty low by all accounts. I’m not over weight or have high blood pressure etc. I’m being retested next week just to make sure before a trip to the endocrinologist. He doesn’t think that the next test will be any different thou. He says that the course of treatment if I don’t have a pituitary tumour or anything bad is being treated with testosterone, essentially hormone replacement therapy.

Have any of you ever had something similar? Are there options other than this that I may look at, my doctor didn’t seem to think of any. I’ve been avoiding watching any films with judy garland for some time, and chopping wood in an effort to man up. Plus I never, ever listen to ABBA.

Seems I’m a little young for this if you ask me, but I’d like to feel more on it again and less tired all the time.

Cheers.

Due to medical reasons my last testone level came bk at 0.6.
that’s roughly the same level as i had when i was 5.
Can’t say it has had an effect on my everyday life, though gaining muscle in next to impossible and its a little dry down there.. lol
o yea and im a girl, so i know its a little different.

lol forgot the point of why i was writeing this, dont go for any of those natural hormones there all guff, if it don’t come from the doctor it dont work!

A mate’s dad went on testosterone patches. I was in the pub with him when he told his son he had to get the doc to half the dose: “I loved it, but your mum could barely walk.”

5.4 is well below normal, and would certainly cause the symptoms you describe, and be justification for hormone replacement therapy.

The questions going through your doctor’s mind at the moment is whether there is any direct cause, such as malfunction or tumours in the endocrine system, or whether its just a natural decline with age. Unfortunately the latter is difficult to establish without records of what your ‘normal’ testosterone levels were say, in your twenties versus thirties versus now, but if everything else is ruled out then this becomes the ‘default’ diagnosis.

There’s also growing opinion that declining testosterone with age is not something we should naturally accept, and that even those within the ‘normal’ range but with declining levels can benefit from supplements. Testosterone affects so many things we associate with a healthy active lifestyle (energy levels, concentration, muscle strength, drive and ambition, sex!), that you’ve got to question why anyone would accept losing this as they get older if the treatment is readily available and has very few downsides – both of which seem to be true!

Of course we’re not talking about taking levels which count as abuse which some athletes and body builders go to, just returning levels to ‘normal’, and it is after all a natural substance already in the body. So, I wouldn’t worry about the prospect of supplementing it – its simple, painless, and effective! The only real downside is increased risk of prostate cancer, so you’ll need to be regularly tested for that.

Once the cause of your low levels has been established, and if supplements are deemed to be the solution, then you’ll likely be faced with a number of choices for actually administering the stuff. There’s tablets, but ingesting testosterone isn’t the favoured solution these days. Adsorption through the skin thru gels or patches, or injection of a slowly dissipating gel or pellet into a muscle are the more usual routes. The gels and patches are daily and the dose can be modified quite easily, whereas injections are monthly or even less frequently so are less hassle, but you have to go to the doctor each time.

I was diagnosed with low testosterone a couple of months back, and have been on the patches since then. Unfortunately my skin is starting to react to them and I may have to find another method soon. In the meantime the effects have been quite marked and immediate – I’ve regained my mojo!

But, as always, my advice is just from someone you don’t know on a forum, everyone’s situation is different, and follow your doctor’s advice rather than mine.

Wow, I feel pretty much the same as 10 years ago, 40 now. The only way I’ve changed is im not a hot head anymore and don’t get would up by people these days where as I used to be a little aggressive when provoked. Nowadays I’m just really laid back, which I am very happy about. Down to testosterone levels falling due to age …? If it is, it isn’t manifesting itself on a physical level.

There’s an American doctor who has published a book on maintaining fitness and health into your 70s.

He’s an advocate of testosterone supplementation (at a level to equate to where it would be when your body was younger).

He’s got a body most 30 year olds would like to have.

loddrik – Member
…Down to testosterone levels falling due to age …? If it is, it isn’t manifesting itself on a physical level.

Not yet, but soon I’m afraid. 🙂

Thanks perthmtb, that is great advice and has put my mind at some rest. The doctor says sustanon injections, which sounds like a good option, as the gels and patches sound like they could be troublesome.

I am wondering what my next results will be, I hope that they don’t vary too much in a way, so to move things on. He didn’t seem to think that it was a fluke result. It would be good to get some answers to the reason that I feel so pony.

If you don’t mind me asking what was your level?

If you don’t mind me asking what was your level

I’m 50 and my level was 10.9, whereas normal is between 8-25.7

So, theoretically I was still in the normal range, but that’s the trouble with not having a historical level to compare, and with such a wide range – who knows what is ‘normal’ for an individual. One person’s levels can halve from 20 to 10 in a matter of a few years, whilst another’s has been 10 all their life, and the first one is deemed to not have a problem. Luckily my doctor was willing to try supplementation and see if the results spoke for themselves, which they have. We’re now working on fine tuning the dose.

Your level of 5.4 is definitely below normal, so there’s a very strong case for it being the cause of your symptoms. As I said, your doctor will now be working to determine if its a result of naturally declining levels or something more serious.

If its just natural decline, as you need a stronger level of supplementation than me, going direct to injections is probably sensible, as it avoids the issue of allergic skin reactions some seem to have with the gels and patches (me included). I’ve also found that the daily patch results in a 24hr cycle in dosage, with the maximum delivered at about three in the morning, which makes for some interesting dreams 😉 Injections should give you a more even dose over the day. You’ll still need regular testing for a while to fine tune the dose, but then you should find you’re quality of life has vastly improved.

And remember, its a naturally occurring substance in the body, and you’re doing nothing more than returning it to the levels it should be at, so there’s nothing to feel embarrassed or worried about. And as far as treatments versus risks versus effects go, it has to be one of the easiest, with lowest risk, yet with one of the best paybacks. And in fact, I think you’re going to find testosterone becoming the new Viagra, with a lot of ageing baby boomers jumping on the bandwagon to suspend the side-effects of ageing, even though they don’t have clinically low levels.

Thanks again, certainly putting my mind at rest. 😀

Glad to be of some help, and good luck with the treatment…

I used to work in this area a couple of years back and your level is low, but it tends to be the symptoms that would provoke treatment rather that the testosterone level.

Sustanon Injections were the gold standard but I think they withdrew the lower dose and now everyone gets the 250 dose, be aware that because you get them every 3 weeks you start with a high week, a normal week and a low week so you’ll get peaks and troughs in your mood.

The other injectable option to discuss with your doctor is Nebido which is every 3 months but you would have to go to hospital for the injection unless your surgery can provide this. It’s quite a big injection and once it’s in there is no getting the drug back out if you had a problem.

While gels may seem like hassle they actually best mimic the way your body produce testosterone by giving you a boost in the morning and the drops throughout the day. And once you get used to it, it’s no different from anything else just part of your daily routine. Skin reactions are fairly common but usually disappear with persistent use.

Patches offer the easiest option, stay on for a while and no needles but its the glue on the patch that causes the reactions on the skin and usually won’t go away, and seen as this is a bike forum if you are out riding and getting sweaty they may not stay stuck on.
Luckily they stopped making the patches that you stuck on your scrotum!

If you would like any more info drop me an email and I will do my best to answer you as best I can.

Get the Dr to sort you & then treat yourself to a nice yellow jersey!

Ok so I’m on testosterone replacement. Hands up no yellow jerseys here….. Having had a fair amount of chemo and a stem cell transplant my levels were low, not as low as the op though. Went on the hrt and got my life back. I use a gel which I rub on my shoulders and sides of my torso. Feel so much better, I have energy and patience again and am able to life a fuller life than I was doing. My brother in laws dad had a similar chemo situation to me and has testosterone implants which do the same as the gel. The down side to the implants is you can tell when it’s wearing off, the gel is a constant so long as you put it on as prescribed.
I’m 42 this year and will be on it for the rest of my life I guess. Small price to pay.

Look up Chris Boardman the cyclist, he had issues with it and takes replacement hormone. Looks fine on it to me!

While gels may seem like hassle they actually best mimic the way your body produce testosterone by giving you a boost in the morning and the drops throughout the day

Second this. I found out my testosterone level was low about 15 years ago and for the first 10 years, did a monthly injection, but it required going to the doctor for each injection and the effect was very strong immediately after and tapered way off by the end of the month.
Went on the gel about 5 years ago (I apply it to my upper arms and shoulders)—it is working great and really is pretty easy to use. You do have to use caution in making sure kids or spouse/sig. other don’t come in contact, especially immediately after applying it.
One drawback is that it’s pretty pricey, at least here in the US.

masturbate more.. much more

trick your body into thinking that you’re a virile stud, still steadfastly servicing the herd.. let nature take care of the rest

OP: I went through a very similar experience at your age probably 7-8 years ago. Went to see an endocrinologist low this, low that, first time in my life I had anything like that. Without going into too much detail the testosterone worked as expected at a primal level but did nothing to address the root feeling of lethargy and tiredness. The crunch came one day when said specialist mentioned that supplementing the body’s natural production of these hormones means that natural production stops althogether and at that point I called it a day and walked out.

The temptation is to put 100% trust in medical science but I’m glad I didn’t. It took a whiie – maybe 2-3 years before I felt better – but I did, mailnly due to some lifestyle and diet changes. i think as we get older, feeling ‘old’ is a unique experience for most of us and the temptation is to do whatever we can to feel ‘normal’ again. But really its just a change and in my opinion adapting and learning to live with it is better than a lieftime of medicine.

Good luck, look after #1

Never said much about it on here, but following a complete resection of a hypothalamic tumour in 2008, I’ve received bi-monthly Nebido injections (and shit loads of other HRT). In my experience, the info from Perthmtb is bang on – in terms of how testosterone deficiency affects you far more widely than you may imagine. My lack of testosterone production is coupled with other hormones not being produced as well, so there was a fair period of getting one right, then the next and so on.

If you go for the Nebido injections, rest assured they hurt a fair bit – it’s a deep muscular jab, and I believe it’s quite a thick fluid too. It goes after a day or two, but you know you’ve had it. I think that Nebido has less of a peak / tail off than the older injections had. I started at 10 week, then 9 week and we eventually found 8 weeks to be the optimum.

Obviously determining the underlying causes is of prime importance and I’m guessing your doc has it in hand. If you’re concerned though, don’t let it lie and request further tests. I’m not a doc, obviously, but have received supremely good endocrinological support for the last five years, for which I’m just as grateful for as I am of the surgeon’s original work. Oh – by the way, I’ll be 40 this year.

Do drop me a line if you want to chat further.

He’s an advocate of testosterone supplementation (at a level to equate to where it would be when your body was younger).

He’s got a body most 30 year olds would like to have.

I think you’re confusing HRT (hormone replacemnent therapy) with CRT (Cliff Richard Tablets) 🙂

As a relative newbie to this testosterone supplementation thing (only diagnosed a few months ago with low T) it’s real good that some more experienced people have weighed in on this thread.

Of particular interest to me, as I’m reacting to the patches and will have to find an alternative soon, are experiences with other delivery mechanisms.

Re: Injections…

required going to the doctor for each injection and the effect was very strong immediately after and tapered way off by the end of the month

you get them every 3 weeks you start with a high week, a normal week and a low week so you’ll get peaks and troughs in your mood

I have experienced daily swings due to the patches and thought injections would smooth these out, but hadn’t considered the longer term swings due to injections.

Re: Gels…

I use a gel which I rub on my shoulders and sides of my torso

Went on the gel about 5 years ago (I apply it to my upper arms and shoulders)—it is working great and really is pretty easy to use

Sounds like that may be a better option for me then, as you don’t get the skin irritation of patches, but neither the ‘down’ weeks and pain/inconvenience of injections.

And Rocketman, I see where you’re coming from with …

i think as we get older, feeling ‘old’ is a unique experience for most of us and the temptation is to do whatever we can to feel ‘normal’ again. But really its just a change and in my opinion adapting and learning to live with it is better than a lifetime of medicine.

…but, I’ve recently moved to a new country, completed a degree and started a new career, have an eight year old daughter and a mountain biking obsession to support. This all just as I turned 50 and my body seemingly decided it was time for me to slow down and ramped down testosterone production, leaving me suffering with fatigue, loss of concentration, memory problems, and lack of motivation and drive (not to mention libido, but honestly that’s the thing I’m least worried about!) So, I do agree with you to an extent that sometimes we try to unnaturally hold onto youth. But, I also think we have inherited genetic timeclocks that are a throwback to earlier evolutionary periods and don’t necessarily have the same relevance for the modern times we live in. So, if by maintaining my testosterone levels at their pre-fifties level I can continue to live a healthy and active life for the next twenty years, then I’m willing to give it a go. But I agree with you that it’s a personal decision, and not necessarily the right way to go for everyone.

The crunch came one day when said specialist mentioned that supplementing the body’s natural production of these hormones means that natural production stops althogether

This I am worried about, and had already asked the question of my GP, and frankly got a bit of a fudge as an answer. So I’m definitely gonna have to look into this one a bit more. No point in taking supplements if the body just turns down natural production accordingly, and you’re left with no more testosterone than before, but just an expensive dependence on artificial supplements!

I’ve heard also that your body stops producing its own testosterone when you replace it with a synthetic substitute, I have also heard that once you stop, if you ever do, then your body will start to produce its own testosterone again after a while. So you can come back from hrt, but you would have to suffer a rough patch. I’ve read on a forum of a guy who had hrt for a few years, decided that it wasn’t for him, got himself a young lady freind, and managed to come off it and felt better than when he was on it.

There seem to be so many variables, I’m being tested tomorrow, so will see what my second test throws up!

Thanks again all, you’ve been a great help.

Testosterone productions works on a negative feedback loop to the hypothalamus, so if you artificially add testoerone to your system it will reduce how much you produce naturally. However if that is already low the risks to health and co-morbidity associated with hypogonadism are far out weighed by treatment. And due to this feedback loop you would start producing your own testosterone again if you stopped.

The OP’s level is low enough to probably not be rectified by first and exercise alone and if his levels have been low for a while he should notice a big difference after a few weeks of treatment and never look back.

Good luck tomorrow with the test and if you are referred to an endocrinologist don’t be frightened to discuss the treatment options with them and usually they will have a specialist nurse who can go through the options with you as well.

That’s interesting shoefiti and Endurogangster. I think I’ve got to the limit of my GP’s understanding on the topic and should probably ask for referral to a specialist endocrinologist if I want to know more…

Interesting anecdote about the guy who got a new girlfriend. I’ve heard about there being various positive and negative feedback loops involved with testosterone production (which is another reason why a one-size-fits-all ‘normal’ level isn’t particularly helpful), and one of the best documented is the ‘winner effect’. I read an interesting article about it here …

The testosterone feedback loop is known as the winner effect. The winner effect had been observed in nature for many different species, from cichlid fish to rhesus monkeys, and its physiology is well understood. When two animals square off in anticipation of a fight, they experience a rise in testosterone levels. This self-doping mechanism prepares the animal for competition, increasing the blood’s capacity to carry oxygen, quickening the speed of reactions, and, via its effect on the brain, increasing fearlessness and appetite for risk. In the aftermath, winners can emerge with a tenfold increase in the amount of testosterone circulating in their bodies, whereas losers’ testosterone levels can be suppressed by the same order of magnitude. This doping effect can sometimes last for months. Nature primes winners to keep winning and losers to keep losing.

The article goes on to relate testosterone levels in Wall Street traders and the winner effect to financial bubbles! But at the individual level I guess its not too much of a mental leap to imagine an event in your life, like getting a new girlfriend, kicking off a positive testosterone feedback loop, that can become self sustaining over a longer period of time…

Anyway, good luck with your test tomorrow, and I hope you get your Mojo back soon 😀

rocketman, i’d normally agree about the body sorting itself out and I gave it a damn good go letting it. as my wife says though, the stem cell transplant and chemo nuked my balls good and proper!
the anecdote about the younger girlfriend may have worked for him but I know what would happen to my balls if I went there!

shoefiti – Member
…I’ve read on a forum of a guy who … got himself a young lady freind, and managed to come off it and felt better than when he was on it.

I always prefer the idea of a natural therapy.

Just off to consult the missus about my need for a younger woman. Wish me luck…

Wow this is all new to me, didn’t know testing or replacement ever existed?

Re:

Re: Injections…

required going to the doctor for each injection and the effect was very strong immediately after and tapered way off by the end of the month

you get them every 3 weeks you start with a high week, a normal week and a low week so you’ll get peaks and troughs in your mood

I have experienced daily swings due to the patches and thought injections would smooth these out, but hadn’t considered the longer term swings due to injections.

Perthmtb – I think it would be worth speaking to your endocrinologist about different injections. I think (but am not sure) that Sustanon isn’t so regularly prescribed these days. Nebido has a much longer gap (potentially 9 or 10 weeks) between jabs and the idea is that you have the jab as you’re starting to tail off which avoids any dips. Now that I have mine at the right interval (8 weeks for me) I rarely feel too bad in the last week. I have blood tests every other jab too, just to check as I’ve changed from my consultant administering it to my GP.

Just had my second lot of results back. 1.3 free testosterone. That by all accounts is downright shocking. I’m now off work with a cold, coincidence, or something more sinister? I felt really crappy all week, but that’s hardly surprising, given the cold and the low T levels. I’ve the endocrinologist next week, so that may provide some answers. 🙁

Coincidentally got my latest test results today – 11.2, so its creeping up…

Also, after what others said here I discussed options with the doctor and have switched from patches to gel.

Shoefiti, my levels weren’t as low as yours to start with, and I went on the mildest dose of patch, but I still noticed a marked difference in energy levels. So, when you get some testosterone flowing in your blood stream again you’re gonna feel like a teenager again 😆

God I hope so, I fell asleep yesterday afternoon at 3 for an hour. Knackered again and I’ve only been up 3 hours, I can’t believe my second test result, my wife probably would score higher than 1.3 🙁

Jesus. Wait until you reach 57….

You may consider it hokum, and it may be hokum (it’s probably controversial medically) but there’s a chapter in Tim Ferris’ book The Four Hour Body about increasing your testoserone without pills.

I’m sure it won’t cure any underlying pathology, but it may help, and the book is cheap. And rather interesting if you treat it as a one-man human experiment (which is what the author intended), and not a miracle self-help book which is what the publishers are flogging it as.