As a change from brexit threads…

Oh yeah, an electric car thread is guaranteed to be less argumentative and polarised than that!

Interesting review, but fails to consider the needs of the average user who needs to tow a trailer to Azerbaijan every weekend.

With all that weight low down, the Model 3 grips hard, because particular attention was paid to development of the EV-specific tyres and suspension design to get the car to cling on, despite the battery’s mass

FFS, what is an “EV-specific” tyre? Are Tesla using the same marketing company as whoever came up with the e-bike specific saddle?

Ev specific tyres are a thing, to do with weight and lateral forces.

If i was still getting a company car, I would get a model 3 without doubt.

FFS, what is an “EV-specific” tyre?

A tyre prioritising low rolling resistance and big load capacity? Big acceleration loads but low top speeds? Compared to normal cars they’re probably quite an unusual combination of requirements.

EV specific tyre = tyre optimized for particular model, just like lots of petrol cars. For Tesla, sound deadening foam is added inside. I’d also expect that the extra weight is catered for.

A tyre prioritising low rolling resistance and big load capacity? Big acceleration loads but low top speeds? Compared to normal cars they’re probably quite an unusual combination of requirements.

The Tesla is about 10% heavier then the BMW and has a claimed top speed of 140 mph. It accelerates a bit faster then the BMW, but its weight and performance aren’t so different from typical sporty saloons. All tyres will be a compromise between rolling resistance, grip, durability, noise, etc. I don’t see how EVs are any different in that regard.

I does make a very compelling case for the Tesla. Even if the worst case, middle of winter range is 200 miles I could make that work for me.

0% BIK from April next year would make it worth having a Company Car again too.

I don’t see how EVs are any different in that regard.

Except the bit where two sentences back you said it accelerated quicker, had a lower top speed and weighed more.

How specific does it need to be before you consider it specific, subtly trilobeular to even out the pulses from the electric motor? Its still black, round and has a tread on the outside.

I does make a very compelling case for the Tesla.

For many people, but not for everyone, which is what always generates arguments.

There is a caveat: around 12,000 miles a year is viable with this level of range, so if you can put up with some public charging (most people will top up overnight), it’s a great option.

There is a caveat: around 12,000 miles a year is viable with this level of range, so if you can put up with some public charging (most people will top up overnight), it’s a great option.

Don’t forget that, unlike all the others, Tesla have a large private network of superchargers. from what I’ve read this alone is the major attraction to many EVers.

Just started researching electric cars and came across zap-map.com . Way more charging points than i thought existed. Also the model 3 not only takes type 2 connectors but also CCS. The supercharger is basically designed to fast charge a Tesla as quick as possible, but you can still get a fast charge with type 2 / CCS, just not as fast as a supercharger.

Don’t forget that, unlike all the others, Tesla have a random scattered private network of superchargers. from what I’ve read this alone is the major attraction to many EVers… who work in Canary Wharf.

FITM

I think they are great – and I’ll probably get one for the second car when the lease is up. I still need a 1000 mile in a go, 5 up with loads of luggage and tow a horse box out of muddy fields option (no really – I actually do this) so can’t do 2 Teslas – yet.

Oh, and Zap – map. interesting but appears to show private charging points as well. There’s one near me that is part of a hotel that you’d have to pay £400/night to get to the charging point. Wonder how many more like that there are in the map?

I still need a 1000 mile in a go

Do you actually do this without stopping for a coffee or a meal (which could be time used to rapid charge)?

tinybits

Member

I still need a 1000 mile in a go…

No, you don’t. I very much doubt that you drive for 15 hours straight without a break.

Yes, we drive 2 up, kids in the back through the night to the alps. Coffee on the euro tunnel, red bull until dawn! swap approx every 250 miles for a sleep each and otherwise just for fuel. All food / drink on board at the start. You’re a bit tired the next day but it’s an extra 2 days of holiday and the kids don’t even realise that you’re travelling doing it like this!

Edit –

No, you don’t.

Of course, you know what I do better than I do. It’ll be 4 times we do this this year….

You WANT to do 1,000 in one go. Nobody NEEDS to.

I would still take my hybrid BMW 3 series over the Tesla.

Tesla’s are grim on the inside, don’t go round corners very well, and are difficult to insure and breakdown lots.

Hopefully BMW’s all electric 3 series will be out soon

You WANT to do 1,000 in one go. Nobody NEEDS to.

Nobody needs a car with the power and performance of the Tesla, BMW, or all the other performance saloons, but plenty of people want them. Limiting people to only buying things that they really need is a very hard one to sell to voters in a democracy.

There is a caveat: around 12,000 miles a year is viable with this level of range, so if you can put up with some public charging (most people will top up overnight), it’s a great option.

Don’t forget that, unlike all the others, Tesla have a large private network of superchargers. from what I’ve read this alone is the major attraction to many EVers.

To the best of my knowledge and using Tesla’s site, there is a single Supercharger in Wales (where I live) but it really wouldn’t kill it for me.

I looked at a Leaf about 5 years ago, back then it just didn’t work, the real-world 60 mile range was too short and the, then existing charging points too slow and too far between. Range anxiety would be a constant thing.

250 miles though, even 200 miles is frankly a lot, I think perception says it’s not very far if you’re used to filling up and seeing 600 mile range, but even if you’re doing a constant 70 it’s nearly 3 hours worth.

For me, 250 miles (even 200 if that’s more real world) puts me in range of Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, London when more often than not, I’ve be stopping for the night for work, there’s a worry ‘what ifs’ but I don’t imagine it’s very hard to find a charging point in a major city.

If I cast my mind back over the last few years of driving the only time it could be an issue, Cardiff to Llandegla and back in a day for MTB Meet-up, I’d be stopping in Builth Wells on the way home for an hour, apparently there’s a standard charger there, or diverting to Telford on the way back Not ideal, but worse thing happen at sea and it really is a once a year thing.

Then of course there’s the usual argument because I guess most of us have done it at least once, the dreaded Alps trip. Looking at the Tesla site it seems I could do it if I was brave enough, I could get from Home to the Tunnel in a single charge and there appears to be better supercharger coverage in France, frankly the idea of getting to the Alps and back for £60 worth of electricity is appealing instead of £250 in diesel. To be honest though, it costs me £500ish to get from home to the Alps and back in Tolls, Fuel and crossing and it takes 16-17 hours, I’m tight so the idea of making that £400 seems great, even if I’d probably go a bit slower to save on the range anxiety, but in reality we flew this year, it cost about £700 for the 4 of us to get there and back with a hire car for a week. I’m aware nothing comes for free and carbon is produced generating the power for the thing and certainly in it’s construction, but I’m sure 1 extra short-haul flight a year would be more than compensated by doing 12000 miles via EV rather than diesel. Financially it certainly would.

No, you don’t. I very much doubt that you drive for 15 hours straight without a break.

My full sentence, not just a part of it tinybits.

Yes, we drive 2 up, kids in the back through the night to the alps. Coffee on the euro tunnel, red bull until dawn! swap approx every 250 miles for a sleep each and otherwise just for fuel. All food / drink on board at the start. You’re a bit tired the next day but it’s an extra 2 days of holiday and the kids don’t even realise that you’re travelling doing it like this!

So, you do stop, both to swap drivers, have a toilet break and refuel the car. It’s not 1000 miles in one go. So using VWs new 800v charging, a 15min break every 200+ miles would cost you under an hour on a 15-18 hour journey if you subtract existing stops.

Boom!

And here we go…

🤪

Looks like the new v3 supercharger can charge up to 1,000 miles in an hour. That would mean the model 3 would be about 20-30 mins to charge.

No, you don’t. I very much doubt that you drive for 15 hours straight without a break.

My full sentence, not just a part of it tinybits.

Yes, we drive 2 up, kids in the back through the night to the alps. Coffee on the euro tunnel, red bull until dawn! swap approx every 250 miles for a sleep each and otherwise just for fuel. All food / drink on board at the start. You’re a bit tired the next day but it’s an extra 2 days of holiday and the kids don’t even realise that you’re travelling doing it like this!

So, you do stop, both to swap drivers, have a toilet break and refuel the car. It’s not 1000 miles in one go. So using VWs new 800v charging, a 15min break every 200+ miles would cost you under an hour on a 15-18 hour journey if you subtract existing stops.

TBH you’re looking at a dynamic shift like moving from combustion powered cars to EVs there’s not much point trying to argue it’s all the same really, it’s not. Even with all the recent improvements they still have a shorter range and take longer to refuel. Splinting hairs about how long it really takes to charge or whatever isn’t really the point.

Our attitude to personal transport has been formed around combustion cars/vans/bikes. We’ve long accepted the negatives so they no longer seem important so when we compare our existing solution against new ones with different benefits and drawbacks they seem worse.

The ‘motoring’ press really don’t help, a bunch of old men who got into cars because they’re fast, make a noise they’ve learned to love and nudge-nudge, wink-wink think they’re racing drivers at the weekend as they tear around the quieter roads being very anti-social and all that. Even when they’re trying to be positive they can barely hide their disdain for EVs.

Anyway, I’ve started to go all off-piste and ranty.

So, if you must drive through the night like you’re on some kind of Endurance Rally to get to the Alps before breakfast when the kids wake up, based on current technology it will take longer, you could take some solace from the fact it would be cheaper, quieter and smoother, but I’m as guilty as anyone else of disliking the new or unknown.

Or you could consider that for the other 51 weeks of the year the benefits/drawback ratio of an EV may be better than a combustion vehicle. At least now, and frankly for the foreseeable you will have the choice.

According to the article these cars are for junior execs. How many of you are junior execs? If not, move along.

Oh, right you are Daffy. I’ll get one on order.

Only it’s not big enough, or four wheel drive or can tow 3 tons, or 800w charging as far as I can make out other than that, it’s perfect.

Did you miss the bit where i said I would get one for the other household car?

Possibly a dumb question, but is charging a ‘leccy car from a hook-up point in a campsite feasible, or does it draw too much juice?

Seen some campsites that expressedly forbid it (not sure whether that implies it works but costs, or buggers up the supply for everyone else), but assume they’ll come round to it and charge accordingly like they do for dogs, awnings, children, showers etc.

Perhaps I don’t understand the mentality that makes you buy something that exactly fits your needs for less than 1% of the time you use it. The rest of the time moving around in something that is too big, with too many driven wheels, and the power to tow 3 tonnes when in reality it’s towing just 200kg of humans. I don’t walk around in a wetsuit everyday for the 3-5 days per year that I windsurf, I rent a wetsuit when I need one.

ALso, wouldn’t a Model X fit almost all of your requirements?

Perhaps I don’t understand the mentality that makes you buy something that exactly fits your needs for less than 1% of the time you use it.

I would guess it’s >1% of the time he uses it. Everything’s a compromise. I don’t get why people assume they know what vehicle is best for somebody else?

I rent a wetsuit when I need one.

I’d hazard a guess that that is easier than hiring a car capable of towing big things.

ALso, wouldn’t a Model X fit almost all of your requirements?

A bike would fit almost all of most people’s requirements. And would be far cheaper than a model X. Why would somebody go and spend huge amounts (consuming huge amounts of resources in the process) to buy something that’s less good for what they want to use it for than what they already own? Why would you think it even makes sense to do this?

The new Audi RS6 is a diesel.

Just saying.

It’ll be 4 times we do this this year….

Hardly seems worth carrying in doing that when you could just stop then drive on some more.

Do any of the apps show if the chargers are working or broken, in use or available? These are quite important details that haven’t been covered.

The new RS6 isn’t diesel. The S6/s7 are.

If campsites have 16A sockets you can charge an electric car with its domestic adaptor. Most campsites have a few 16A sockets for luxury camper vans even if most of the pitches have 8A or 10A. Our Zoé charges on 10A sockets but not 8A. So far so good.

Do any of the apps show if the chargers are working or broken, in use or available? These are quite important details that haven’t been covered.

Yes, they tell you if they’re working, in use, how many charge points there are and which network they use.

The new Audi RS6 is a diesel.

Just saying.

It’s petrol.

Just saying.

Yes, they tell you if they’re working, in use, how many charge points there are and which network they use.

Good to know, although a leccy car is a fair way off for me.

I know we’re talking about 🤮 Tesla 🤮 and bimmerz here 😷

But regarding charging and the bazillion apps and companies that proclaim to provide all these wonderful uber impressive charge points, and just how many zillion watts they’re supposed to output… what would be good, is a single point that charges the car and not the owner, all through one single portal…

Like Mercedes do through Mercedes Me.

A single point of connectivity, regardless of the bazillion providers and cost packages.

The car knows when it needs charge, flashes a charge point that’s not being used, it the calls up the charger, calls Mercedes Me you turn up.. plug in.. go for a 19course meal, come back and drive off. And Mercedes contact the provider, the provider produces and invoice and the owner of the vehicle gets DD’d at the end of the month.

Saves all that **** about downloading a zillion apps for a bazillion providers doesn’t it.

Who’da funk it 🤷‍♂️