Viewing 33 posts - 1 through 33 (of 33 total)
  • Technique – cycling with your knees "out"
  • mrmoofo
    Full Member

    I have, what I think is a really bad habit – and it was pointed out to me by my nephew a while ago, so it is engrained.
    When I cycle, my legs don’t just go up an down in the same plane, which I assume is ideal – but on the up up stroke I stick my knees out. Like handle bar width out …

    Now , some of this might be driven by physiology – I have very chunky thighs, but the rest is probably learned.
    At the same time, I now beginning to get knee pain – so to try and correct this
    1) I have gone back to using SPDs – to try and hold my feet in position. On flatties, if I look down at me feet they can be at any angle under the sun but very rarely facing straight forward
    2) Raised the saddle – I think I have been riding with the saddle about 2 or cms too low. This seems to help (it pushes me slightly forward on the saddle and makes “in plane” leg movement easier). Probably the trade off is comfort.

    Any other suggestions, or is this nothing to worry about?

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    I have the opposite, due to inactive Glutes. If you can film yourself from all 4 sides pedaling on a trainer then show a physio etc. That and some hands on stuff got to the root of the problem. Now a slow rebuild ahead of me.

    EDIT
    Not a diagnosis for that you may have to meet a human being 🙂

    antigee
    Full Member

    my daughter has a knee that turns out and it is pretty good what a few weeks excercises from a good physio can

    i found i sometimes turn my knees out when honking on a road bike – think its a throwback to when you’d catch your knees on the downtube changers!

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    JCL
    Free Member

    As mikewsmith says, it’s muscle imbalance.

    I suspect your feet are little duck’ed out on the pedals?

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    Usually cleat/shims or footbeds cure it and keep your knee tracking in a straight line. The muscle starts to work and get stronger fairly quickly (in my case glute medius and vastus medialis)
    One trip to a physio and a cleat/footbed done by a bike fitter and all sorted.

    thomthumb
    Free Member

    I have gone back to using SPDs – to try and hold my feet in position

    this will only lead to knee pain imo.

    +1 to muscle imbalance; see a physio.

    sefton
    Free Member

    I noticed this the other month, right knee came out. so I tried riding with a straight up & down. 25miles into a ride I got a horrible pain in my VMO. it took ages to go.

    dont pull your knees in.

    instead work on strengthening your VMO off the bike.

    Moses
    Full Member

    What position are your feet in when walking? If you have dew-beaters then sticky-out knees would be a normal consequence of this.
    Cleats aligned straight ahead will bork your knees, in this case.

    tonyd
    Full Member

    As above, using SPDs to force your knees into a given position will cause pain and possibly longer term problems. Fix the root of the problem which is likely to be muscle imbalance but see a physio for proper advice.

    It could just be that you need to leave your feet to float for now but focus on keep your knees straight through the pedal stroke. Over time as strength builds in the appropriate places this should correct itself.

    I have quite chunky thighs but don’t have this problem (that I’m aware of). Do you ride a road bike? They’re pretty good for building an efficient pedal stroke IMO.

    <I’m not a physio>

    soobalias
    Free Member

    one of my riding buddies is a bit like that.
    looks like charlie chaplin on a bike.
    saddle being too low does make it much more pronounced
    agree with the above that trying to nail your foot in one direction through spds isnt the way to fix it

    glupton1976
    Free Member

    it pushes me slightly forward on the saddle and makes “in plane” leg movement easier

    Sounds like your bike set up is completely off the wall.

    Got any pictures of you on the bike?

    mrmoofo
    Full Member

    Sounds like your bike set up is completely off the wall.

    Got any pictures of you on the bike?

    Fortunately, no!

    What to you say that – I actually think my bike is fine TBH. It pushes me forward because higher saddle leads to more weight on wrists (or at least, i think it does)

    Other than it is a 19 inch Cotic Soul , or Road rat – and I am 189 cm – so loads of seatpost…

    Position of feet when walking – probably a good call – one in normal – the other turns in – always has done, and quite pronounced. It should have been rectified when I was a kid.

    And yes – that is the knee that hurts! But if I pedal on flatties, ironically that foot goes to toes out and I find my heels hitting the seat stays

    glupton1976
    Free Member

    Did you injure that hip when you were younger? It’s probably down to muscles on that side deep in your backside being tight, or a groin strain on that side not having been fixed properly.

    Just do some strengthening exercises for the relevant muscle and you’ll be grand.

    globalti
    Free Member

    A 19″ frame is at the small end of the range for your height. If you say there’s a lot of seatpost showing it sounds as if the bike’s too small for you, meaning that you’re too cramped up on it and your saddle is too low, both of which will make you look like an Arab on a shopping bike.

    The correct way to get the seat height right is to sit on the saddle and let your leg hang loose, not straight. Your heel should just be contacting the pedal.

    bigmountainscotland
    Free Member

    If your knees are bowing out when you are pedalling, with the seatpost at full extension, then you either need a longer seatpost or a larger frame~

    However if this is occurring when you are out of the saddle in the attack position, then you basically have it right, though perhaps slightly exaggerated~ your knees should be about shoulder width apart~ many people have the opposite problem, whereby their knees point in… like balancing on a plank vs balancing on a tightrope, the wider stance gives you more stability.

    pukenroof
    Free Member

    Can’t beat a bit of chilled out riding with the feet in the 10 to 2 position

    mrmoofo
    Full Member

    Did you injure that hip when you were younger? It’s probably down to muscles on that side deep in your backside being tight, or a groin strain on that side not having been fixed properly.

    Just do some strengthening exercises for the relevant muscle and you’ll be grand.

    Not that I know of – but i did rupture mt knee ligiments when I was fourteen. But in the other knee. At the same time I broke my collar bone that has throwm my skeleton way out of synch. My right shoulder sits about 3 inches lower than my left – so it has affect stance and flexibilty ( i have never been able to ride a snowboard “switch” and I think this is a factor)

    Re the bike being too small – it is probably on the limits. The post isnt maxed out as such , but we are probably taking 340 mm showing. And I shim up the stem to suit – but the bars are a good 5-6 inches below the saddle …
    However many years ago, i bought a bike that I considered too big, so that put me off really – so maybe I do need to oder an XL Solaris

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    See Physio…….
    make video like this
    [video]http://vimeo.com/64197667[/video]
    Somebody (not me) needs to have a good feel of your muscles to tell what is going on.

    glupton1976
    Free Member

    That saddle needs to go back and down a wee touch. I’m guessing whoever it is in the video gets a dull ache at the bottom of their back after around 10 miles – if indeed that far.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    nope not to take this off track but the saddle is right, just one side isn’t working properly. Highlighting the need for a proper physio exam….

    I’m in the video, the issue is around Glutes in my right side being inactive due to multiple reasons. 3 physio sessions and now I’m off to guided Pilates to help correct some of the stuff.

    davidtaylforth
    Free Member

    Mike, your saddle looks a fair bit too high. It also looks like you *might* have alot of weight on your arms. Try moving it down and back, you should be able to get ride of your stem spacers if you do this, and gain a bit more of an aero position.

    globalti
    Free Member

    Saddle is too high.

    glupton1976
    Free Member

    Nah – your saddle is too high. Your hips are rocking side to side. It is also too far forwards as you have a very narrow angle between your body and arms and your knee is miles in front of your toes when you pedal.

    You do get back pain when you pedal too after a few miles. That’s what I’m seeing from that video. I work in elite sports physio. 😀

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    You do get back pain when you pedal too after a few miles. That’s what I’m seeing from that video. I work in elite sports physio.

    Thanks for the telepathic advice! My hip rocks on one side and the other is fine, it’s a conundrum really. I can confirm no back pain, but I’m guessing also you do most of your work hands on? Video is great but took 2 sessions with a good physio to work out what was going on with my muscles. Not knocking peoples experience just saying internet diagnosis is not always the best. I uploaded the video for my physio and mate so had to give it a title.

    davidtaylforth
    Free Member

    Mike, have you had a bike fit?

    glupton1976
    Free Member

    Your hip rocks on both sides in that video. It’s the way hips work.

    It’s not a conundrum – your saddle is too high and too far back.

    Here’s a deal. If you try putting your saddle down my 10mm or so and back by the same distance and it doesnt improve things I’ll shave the hair off of my head.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Yep the bike was fitted, before and after I left the UK and up until Christmas when I had my big lay off the bike it was fine and my hips didn’t rock. The hip thing started off after I blew up in a 3 day race and got the most painful full leg cramps I had ever had. Not disputing your viewing of the video just there is a lot more going on than that. Also no back pain 🙂 Cheers for the input though.

    glupton1976
    Free Member

    You going to try changing your saddle position?

    samuri
    Free Member

    Definitely saddle too high in that video

    davidtaylforth
    Free Member

    You’re in Australia arent you Mike? Go and see Steve Hogg..

    b45her
    Free Member

    yep saddle looks too high to me too, legs are almost dead straight at the bottom of the stroke even with your toes down.

    clarkpm4242
    Free Member

    Back to the OP…

    …Based on my anecdotal evidence the simplest and prob. safest/cheapest is to freshen up your flatties, new pedals or pins. Do not get ‘locked’ into spds…

    Then try to pedal more ‘correctly’. There will some aches and pains in the muscles. If the joints start hurting you can easily take a rest from your new position. Build up gradually.

    Worked for me.
    Cheers Paul

    oldgit
    Free Member

    I ride with my knees right out, always have. In fact I look dreadful on a bike, but I don’t or never have had the slightest twinge. And my legs are skinny.
    I do walk like a geezer though.

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