OK. I'm a lawyer. Recently changed jobs to one I like more than the last one, but I've still got a nagging thought at the back of my mind that I need a complete career change.

Teaching has always held an attraction – is it as hellish as I'm told, or are there any upsides?

And, failing that, what else could I use my legal skills to do?

Cheers

OMITN

If you love coaching, long hrs and screaming kids with shoddy pay then do it! Most teachers if not all will tell you "Are you F***ing mad?"

Arrange a few days with a local school once your CRB is clear and see what it is like. Might convince you or run away and no it is not a secure job anymore.

Whats wrong with law??? Or even a lecturer at Uni with law?

my wife teaches in a special needs school.

if you love teaching and like kids then it could be for you.

I'd say over a year she does as many if not more hours than I do workign a 'normal holidays' job.

downsides – everyone thinks you're a shirker and that they could do your job with one hand behind their back. Successive governments (including this one) change the rules aevery 15 minutes.

Good pension, though.

What level would you want to teach at?

Wouldn't it be a huge reduction in salary as well?

My wife is a teacher. She is seriously considering getting out. Morale is low non-existant. Workload is getting more and more. Head teacher couldn't manage a w@nk let alone staff. Parents give you shit and as wwaswas points out everyone could do your job waaaaaay better than you are doing it.

Good pension, though.

Until Gideon gets at it with the scalpel…

Don't do it.

Yes, salary drop, but I could (would) handle that.

Am a pretty patient person, and I like to share knowledge. Would have to be secondary. Ideally, A-level, but that's unrealistic.

Mrs. C is in primary, key stage 1. I believe that secondary is a little less stressful.

And, failing that, what else could I use my legal skills to do?

You need a motorcycle, a uniform with large shoulder pads, a menacing helmet and a jaw line you could cut paper with…

Judge OMITN

a level is post compulsory education PGCE probably better to do a secondary one and then do A levels later as mor eoptions in the future if you have QTS

Marmite job you love it or hate it
PS most people will tell you ther ejob is cr@p I think this is beacuse work is rubbish FACT.

I used to think teaching could be a good alternative career until a friend of mine became one. To cut a long story short, his first job was in a hellhole of a school which was under special measures, was given a rogue class (most of the kids couldn't speak English!) by an incompetent head because none of the other experienced teachers would touch it, blamed by the supervising head for pulling the school down because his class failed their SATS, incessantly bullied and given no support by his supervisors, and was eventually sacked after they failed his NQT year. And now if he fails to win his appeal will never be allowed to teach again, thereby wasting the years he spent training.

After hearing the experiences of my mate I wouldn't be a teacher if it was the last job on earth. And this isn't even considering the 12 hour days and the fact that most people think you're a lazy waster who just wants lots of holidays.

I know loads of teachers – my bro in law loves it (head of drama, big public school), my cousin hates it and my sister, a recent teacher, is undecided.

Seems to depend hugely on where you end up teaching – which isn't very helpful.

I'm only 19 but in my last year of A-levels (last year) I helped out a couple of times a week with some year 9 kids in science lessons, not enough to put me off for life but considering I'd been put with the "good" class, and its not what I'd call a bad school, not sure I'd want to be teaching the "bad" class.

Look at lecturing at uni IMHO, strikes me as a better job (you just need better qualifications I assume)

a level is post compulsory education PGCE probably better to do a secondary one and then do A levels later as mor eoptions in the future if you have QTS

Marmite job you love it or hate it
PS most people will tell you ther ejob is cr@p I think this is beacuse work is rubbish FACT.

Thank you to our education correspondant.

Pay isn't as bad as painted once you've been in a few years, even state – few management points and extra responsibility, then £40K is not exceptional. Crap to start with though. If you are of a mind to aim for headship, which to be honest is closer a managerial role in business than teaching the rewards can be big.

Can't disagree with many of the downsides above (wife is primary teacher of 15 odd years experience), but from friends a decent secondary isn't too bad a life at all. Expect your holidays to be nowhere near as long also, as there is a lot of work outside the core school hours, and time organising the classrom etc. before during and after each term. But be prepared for everyone to think you start at 9 finish at 3 and have 6 weeks off every summer. Plus remember (as you have a family on the way?) you'll have to holiday in school holidays. On teachers pay. It hurts, badly, after you're used to shooting off on a whim.. luckily I'm now hardened to it 🙂

Maybe an FE college or teaching an evening class might give you a taste of part of the job, before you embark on a PGCE?

*Rant deleted.

Go into a 11-19 school and do some volunteer work, then if you still want to do it, you'll know you're clinically insane.

Look at lecturing at uni IMHO, strikes me as a better job (you just need better qualifications I assume)

WAY more competitive to get that kind of work.

*I have no experience so take with a pinch of salt*

I'm gonna teach when I've made a couple of million and paid my mortgage off. I just want to, don't know why as I think it will be very hard.

Go for it & scratch the itch.

Worst case is you hate it and go back to law.

(edit: won't be teaching spelling or grammar)

I think you need good energy levels – seriously. It's a tough job in that respect, intensive to stand in front of 5/6 classes a day. Then, if you're serious about being good, putting the extra hours in to plan your teaching – makes for a demanding job IMO.

I teach at a university, formally, but am way over on the research side so don't actually do a great deal of undergrad teaching. I'd need to work on my stamina if I ever had to do more – I'm shattered if I have to give a lecture and tutorial in the same day.

Girlfriend is a primary school teacher and loves it – she's really good at it. A colleague of hers was a lawyer and jacked it in to teach – he's also glad he did.

On balance, it's no better or worse than most other jobs. You'll never be rich, but you'll always be comfortable. The work can be stressful if you're in a rubbish school with poor colleagues, or great in a better behaved school with more skilled colleagues. The holidays – you'll have a bit of work to do but can usually bat through this in the first 20% of the holiday – you'll never be more than a few weeks away from a break.

On occasion you might have to work a bit later than usual, but in my experience, nowhere near as hard or late as you might do in another challenging industry (I work in advertising)

If I wasn't so uncomfortable with kids, I'd sign up in a flash.

The wife is a teacher with 10 years experience and I've worked in HE (non-teaching) for the past 4 years.

There are good bits and bad bits, like all jobs. The single biggest thing I would say is do you really want to be a teacher. Good teachers are those that really want to be there regardless of the school, situation, type, age, of kids that they teach. It's a vocation rather than a job. If the answer is yes, go for it. Expect LOTS of paperwork and endless hoops to jump through. Bit like being a lawyer, in fact that may come in handy at times.

I thought about it, but was never really serious, and the cr@p I've seen the wife put up with has really opened my eyes. She has worked in very posh schools and very rough schools. They're all bloody hard work.

I could go on, but my take on modern education is this.

It's not about educating people anymore, it's about making money. School, colleges and universtiies are now a business. I don't like that.

As I said, the good teachers really stand out, but most people have no idea how hard they have to work for a living, and how much cr@p they have to wade through on a daily basis. If you're doing it for a paycheck, don't bother.

Cynical ? Hell yes, but I'm afraid that's the way it is at the moment. As far as education goes, this recession is realy starting to bite.

Or even a lecturer at Uni with law?

Look at lecturing at uni IMHO, strikes me as a better job (you just need better qualifications I assume)

Be aware that lecturing at university is not a teaching job, so is a totally different thing from school teaching. It is a research job with some teaching responsibilities. A lecturer only spends maybe 25% of their time doing teaching and teaching related stuff (it will be a higher percentage at a bad university, lower at a good one), the core of their job is doing research. You need a PhD (typically 3.5 years study, funded at approx £10-£15k per year if you manage to get funding) to get any lecturing job. In law and humanities, you can sometimes go straight into lecturing after a PhD, but it is very very competitive. In sciences, expect 5 years of not that well paid post-doc work after a PhD before you can become a lecturer.

Also lecturing doesn't have holidays – much of the research work happens over august, or easter, or other times when students aren't around. You get a normal (although quite generous – I think 30 days a year or so) holiday allowance, like any other job, and looking at where my wife and I work, it is pretty rare for anyone to take all their holiday.

The most annoying thing about working in a university is all the idiots who don't understand that universities research stuff as well as teaching students, who say "You'll be off on your summer holiday for 10 weeks then you lazy bastard" about now, when in reality I have 3 big bits of work to complete, all for deadlines in September, not to mention the ongoing work to organise what the hell we are doing in October->December.

Not that I'd say anything against doing research, doing a PhD for me was really good, and I've got some really interesting work from it now, I'd totally recommend it, but just don't think university lecturing is anything like a teaching job.

As for teaching at schools – I know a few teachers, some of them seem to love it, and really feel like it is exactly what they want to do. I think it is a hard job to stay in if it is just a default choice because you don't know what else to do. I would get some time spent in a school, to see if it is really your thing before you even consider applying for anything. They seem to work long hours outside the monster holidays, and the better you are, the more likely you are to get extra responsibilities that take more time (head of department etc.).

With a law background, you are presumably aiming at something other than maths or science, which may make it harder to get onto a teaching course – as loads of historians, geographers, english graduates etc. have teaching as a default fallback choice, making it harder to train as a subject specialist for those subjects, whereas for mathematicians or scientists, there are tons of jobs they can do, so it is quite rare for them to want to be teachers.

Joe

Cheers, all. Some good insights.

Oh, and on the lecturing side, Mrs (er, Dr) North is a university lecturer. Very flexible working life, even if it is as stressful as anything I have done.

I have 3 close friends who are teachers. 1 in Primary the other 2 in secondary.
They absolutely love it and the profession is richer for having such bright, articulate and hardworking people in it.

However I am sure lots will be on here soon to tell you how they are underpaid/under valued etc etc feeling sorry for themselves types telling you you are mad etc.

Whoops too late!

Oh and another thing, my dad recently became a governor at my former primary school and said his eyes have been opened as to the reality of teaching in this country. He comes from a heavy industry background (retired now) and he said the intensity of work and stamina required for teaching is way beyond anything he had to do.

On the other side I do know other teachers who love it, but a lot of them have had horrific experiences getting to where they are now.

He comes from a heavy industry background (retired now) and he said the intensity of work and stamina required for teaching is way beyond anything he had to do.

Wow. Really?

My mum was a teacher (Retired) and she was one of those that loved the job but hated the orgainsiation, if you like. She taught both primary and secondary at one point or another. She's one of those people with an amazing memory and could walk into a class at a momnets notice and teach them from where the last teacher left off (She did do supply for many years too) without taking a breath. She didn't like being told what to do or the paperwork involved 'behind the scenes' though. For instance, she once told me about when an inspector came in to watch her work. He asked where her lesson plan was. She said she didn't need one becasue she'd been doing it 30 years, and that you should sit down and listen becasue you might learn something, sonny.
Well, something along those lines anyway…. 🙂
I've been in to see her, and watched her teaching a kid to read with one hand, one to one, whilst simultaneously marking books with the other from memory, without the answers written down, whilst the rest of the class worked in virtual silence.
I couldn't do it, but I have true respect for those that do, and do it well. 🙂

Wow. Really?

Well judging by the usual things you hear about teachers (lazy, whingeing, incompetent etc) it would seem the misconceptions my dad had about it are shared quite widely. So yes, I guess. Really!

teach CPE / LPC?

teach CPE / LPC

Good idea, though no openings anywhere I can think of.

How's everything with you? All set? George is now v big and uncomfortable as is just keen for the baby to arrive.. 😀

My brother a teacher of 18 years, left after seeing many changes. The lack of discipline in class ( and not being able to do much about it), the idea that some parents seem to think that the teacher is responsible for most aspects of their childs upbringing, not just their education.
However he loved it and still visits schools as a published author.

I personally believe that there is a need for more male teachers in school. My best friends son, has really enjoyed his last year at primary school with the male teacher.

Go for it, you'll never know until you try.

And good luck with mini OMITN 🙂

I know a couple of friends going into infants teaching – there is a lack of blokes in general there, one has a brother who is the headmaster of a nice infants school and he truly has the life –
secondary teaching though, different world, i keep of thinking of that old man teacher who just got pushed too far and ended up whacking a lippy kid with a dumbbell. I guess then your legal training could come in handy:-

I've been teaching secondary science for 6 years now. I like it most of the time.

The first couple of years were a right pain in the backside, get to work for 8, home about 6 another hour or two at home. After that its got successively easier as time has gone on. This year will probably be about 8 to 5 during term time and little or nothing to do in the holidays depending on how organized I am in term time. I've got about 3/4 days of stuff to do over the summer:)

Of the 15 folk who did the PGCE (teacher training course) with me 2 failed, 2 dropped out, 1 got pregnant (as a way of never ever going back to the classroom), I've lost contact with 2 and the rest (8/15) are still teaching. One's a head of science, one's head of physics and a few of us have various other responsibilities within schools. We have hit the top of main scale teaching this year and with responsibilities and various other payments will be on 30-40K this year.

Good points are meeting loads of interesting people, finding a way to interest kids in something which they can see no point in learning, holidays and I really like teaching people.

Bad points when things get on top of me its really hard to maintain my enthusiasm and patience. With out that you can fall out with lots of kids very quickly which can make things very, very difficult. Oh and marking is tedious, there's loads of it.

My last head of biology transfered from higher education at an FE college to a high school because of job insecurity. If there were not enough kids to fill the classes the staff got let go. FE doesn't pay as well as secondary teaching either hence me still working in a secondary school.

The job prospects depend on what you teach and where you are. Teach Biology – compulsory at GCSE (science is anyway) and popular at A level- Lots of jobs on the go. Teach French- not so easy.

One of my mates has jacked in being a Lawyer and is going to do the FE PGCE next year. She wants to teach history but has to qualify in something else due to the stuff she studied at Uni.

My advice

Organize to go into a school/ college next term- it will take a while as you will need police clearance.
See some hard classes, especially after lunch or last thing on a Friday.
If you still fancy it have a hard look at the various courses around you. Nottingham Unis PGCE has a good name but has much less time in a class room than Nottingham trent. I would recomend Trents course because of that.

Martin

Sorry, bit of a hi jack –
tall- martin I take it you teach in Nottingham then? which school do you work at? (I was hoping to go into some science classes next (school)year to gain some experience / see a bit more of what its like but having difficultly getting it organised)
if you could possibly point me in the direction of someone helpful it would be greatly appreciated (my e-mail address is in my profile if you're able to / would like to help me out 🙂 )

I'm a lecturer – love it. Most unis will want a PhD from you now.

I don't recognise the situation Joe describes, or rather i do but not anymore. I moved universities and dropped a whole lot of stress, picked up more teaching, do research i want, and i'm currently enjoying a month's holiday (we get 35 days leave plus bank holidays).

My girlfriend is a teacher and this is what I have gleamed off of her.

You need to want to teach. Teaching is a mixture of, in no particular order;

1. Imparting of knowledge.
2. Administration.
3. Crowd control.

You have to like kids, this is the bit that put me off of teaching. I agree that you do not get as much holidays as people think due to preparation time. Plus the hours are long. My other half usually arrives to work at 07:00 and leaves 17:30 at the earliest frequently not until gone 18:00. School is shut at 19:00 but most evening involve marking in front of the T.V until bed time + work over the weekend so summer holidays is the only real off time.

Pay is quite good I think, maybe everyone on STW are all bankers but I think the money is pretty good. If you are complainant you can rise up very quickly. Five years can get you HOD which in London is £50k. Your wages will still increase further, there are a fair few of teachers on £60k +

You can be lucky though and get a cushy job, my girlfriend works in a rough S.E London school, hence progression is faster and there is more work. Her friend works in a school in Stirling, and get home for 16:30 most days and starts later, but she has been teaching for 2 more years and has not progressed as much.

Run, run away .
17 years in primary. After 7 I went to supply or short term contract work. Great fun. Found something I am good at and am often offered 10 days work a week.
Why? Well I can't stand all the crap shoved at us by a succesion of "experts" who think they can improve on the last set of cretins. Too much paperwork and new initiatives. I succeeded in education despite being bone idle and re sitting my A levels, bits of my degree and even a bit of my PGCE! What the hell was wrong with@70's schools. Nothing.
The modern system is way to cluttered> Kids don't even have time to read at school properly nowadays!
Doing supply means that I teach the kids but escape the shite before 9am and after 3.15. and most of it is!

About to start my 5th year teaching Technology and Engineering, and most of the time it's a good job. Obviously there are problems, as many folk have said above, but there are benefits too.

Which subject are you looking at? The preparation time required and amount of extra curricular requirements are greatly dependant on that.

I agree with matscom about paperwork and clutter, some weeks it feels like the job is mostly about hitting targets and completing the right bit of paper for the right deputy head (who probably only created the admin task in order to justify their post)… Other weeks you get really into the teaching and get through to a particularly difficult group or child and that's when it's really rewarding. (Oh, and there's August's pay cheque to look forward to!)

Where are you based? If you're in the Sheffield/Rotherham area then I might be able to sort you a visit day or two.

tall martin peaks the truth, I spent a long time doing master phd and research at uni before deciding I didnt like it. became a teacher 4 years ago, did "on the job" training thru' GTP not PGCE. First two years of training and NQT year in a school which at the time was worst performing in england, it was hell at times but great at others but the work load was huge. Now in a normal to high achieving secondary teaching science and loving it . Its hard really hard but goo. Not reached a level where I worry about paperwork, there really doesnt seem to be that much anyway to be honest. Pay is fairly crap but progressing, holidays are great, managers are morons, but as I'm a decent teacher they leave me to it.

Worst job in the world if your crap at it mind.

You need a PhD (typically 3.5 years study, funded at approx £10-£15k per year if you manage to get funding) to get any lecturing job

Thats a "desirable", rather than an essential, masters level qualifications seems more essential. I've known people progress from teaching & nursing into lecturing in those subjects with masters, and then progressed onto doctorate training once lecturing.

I used to be a teacher so here's my 2p worth. The job is quite demanding/tiring but on the plus side the days pass very quickly. Every day is different and you certainly won't be bored (although you may lose your sanity :wink:). However, the hours are nowhere near as bad as many Teachers make out.

Completing the PGCE / NQT year is probably the hardest thing, after that it gets much easier. Many teachers will probably find my next point contentious but IMHO If you find after 2-3 years you're working every hour God send you're probably doing something wrong (or to be more precise, just not being very efficient). The only time I needed to do work at home was when reports needing writing (circa 5 times a year), other than that I managed to get all lesson planning, marking etc. done within 'office hours'. The holidays are a little bit overrated unless a: you have kids b: your partner is a teacher/unemployed or works part time or c: you have friends that work shifts so you can get some midweek biking in. I'm surprised but I've never really missed having 13+ weeks off and I'm much happier being able to choose when I take time off. Pay wise the money is ok if you're a graduate like I was, but probably pretty poor for most people transferring into the profession .

I certainly wouldn't want (or could afford) to go back to it, but I wouldn't dissuade someone from doing it either. If you're unsure but can afford to take a year off then doing a PGCE is a really good way to get a feel for it – personally I really enjoyed doing the PGCE despite it being a quite a challenging and intense year.