That HDI education index is based on literacy and enrollment rate. Given the number of countries that have a 99% or higher literacy rate it’s really just an indicator of the number of people in education. Which is, IMO, no measure of how well educated the population is. The OECD table is at least based on testing the population.

The high number of Brits in higher education is mainly down to a government policy aimed at taking young people out the unemployment statistics if I’m being really cynical.

HUGE carpark.. one porche 911, a merc, a big chelsea tractor thing and more minis than a mary quant fashion show

All available relatively cheap second hand or affordable if their partner is on a good wage too.

HUGE carpark.. one porche 911, a merc, a big chelsea tractor thing and more minis than a mary quant fashion show. clearly thier owners are doing okay

Our school car park is the same but most of those cars are members of the public going to the sports centre.

In answer to the questions raised on last page, robbed from a TES forum:

The Hutton report (http://cdn.hm-treasury.gov.uk/hutton_final_100311.pdf) mentions independent schools along with other teaching and non-teaching bodies in the private sector which can join the public sector pension schemes. The conclusion about this (around p119 of the report) says that it is in principle undesirable for future non public sector workers to have access to public sector schemes, but acknowledges that this is a difficult area for the Govt (aren’t they all??). So it would seem that existing members may be OK but future ones not, but of course the whole report is as yet unimplemented so goodness knows what will happen

Madame is a teacher and could buy any of those cars new with cash lying idle in the bank. I’m more idle than my cash, too idle to go out to work or even go out and buy a new car when the 20-year-old one is fine.

Cars are a very poor indicator of wealth in France. Jean Jacques Goldman à vélo (sorry the pic failed)

he drives/drove a Renault Scénic.

Madame is a teacher and could buy any of those cars new with cash lying idle in the bank. I’m more idle than my cash, too idle to go out to work or even go out and buy a new car when the 20-year-old one is fine.

What are you trying to say, Edu?

That Brits judge people’s wealth by their cars which is no indicator at all. I knew a couple with a new Ferrari (his) and AMG Merc (hers). Both really belonged to the credit company, like the house and pretty much every other conspicuous sign of wealth they “owned” but didn’t.

ditto the above, typical willy waving / green envy that unfortunately was to blame for getting us into this credit crunch mess

That Brits judge people’s wealth by their cars which is no indicator at all.

Does this still happen? I prefer the older, and less cultured, way of telling everyone I have huge wads of cash in the bank and no mortgage. It’s a little crude, but quite effective.

Cheers to all the teachers reading the thread. I’d be a lesser man without the influence of a good number of your colleagues.

Me too, David. You noticed. 8)

Yes!

It’s a little crude, but quite effective.

So many punchlines 😉

No.

Interesting choice that some make between buying a flash (?) car versus investing in a child’s education! So I guess on Porsche 911 costs the same as 3-4 years at a top school. One investment depreciates rapidly, the other appreciates over a life time. Pretty easy choice………?

It would be interesting if the OECD did tables of the educational rank for the richest and poorest people in each country if what you say is true, THM.

Teachers are overpaid for sure. In most professions (Other than law, medicine, politics and banking.) you get paid for your capabilities and the scarcity of that in the marketplace. Teaching in our educational system does not require high levels of intelligence or capability unfortunately. Professional teachers get overpaid for letting the majority of children down by failing to make the most of children’s abilities… Don’t start about the hours either – low capability usually means that tasks take longer…

Despite my children attending an outstanding school according to Ofsted (Due to a narrow focus and lots of pre-inspection efforts from themselves, their families and even colleagues from other schools!) they have only one teacher who really is amazing. The remaining management and staff of the school leave a lot to be desired and true leadership is absent. For example the head teacher had two minor and simple to address recommendations from Ofsted and has not even bothered to address these.

If teachers deserved their pay perhaps I would have had more than four outstanding teachers in my own thirteen years of school experience and those I ‘know’ socially would not be a mix of people who are not the most intelligent, are unable to lead, govern and evolve their institutions and also not proudly abuse school facilities and resource to sort themselves out!

Apologies for the negativity but I am afraid my experiences both past and present are largely poor.

Well conclusive evidence, makes me wonder why science teachers are so hard to find then.

I not sure I understand your last post Edukator – I get the different ranking idea but not sure how you are relating that to my previous post?

Teaching in our educational system does not require high levels of intelligence or capability unfortunately.

Given how easy it is, one wonders , why so many you met, were so bad.

the head teacher had two minor and simple to address recommendations from Ofsted and has not even bothered to address these

leading to an immeasurable improvement in the performance of the school and staff no doubt.

odd that the experts think it is outstanding and you dont.

The very best providers have been judged to have outstanding overall effectiveness. These are the providers whose work with children, young people and adult learners have been found to be of outstanding quality.

anyway pfft what would they know eh

No. If you disagree try it yourself.

Teachers are overpaid for sure. In most professions (Other than law, medicine, politics and banking.) you get paid for your capabilities and the scarcity of that in the marketplace. Teaching in our educational system does not require high levels of intelligence or capability unfortunately.

You should do it, then, it sounds like a piece of piss.

The biggest problem in schools is the parents, jamj 1974. If you did a better job of parenting teachers would be able to teach rather than waste most of their time policing.

Generalising much?

That depends on how small the sample base needs to be to fit in with your definition.
Of course, this could be skewed by the geography of the sample in relation to that of mine.
🙂

No one that’s in a job that’s open to the market is overpaid, not for any length of time any way

anyway pfft what would they know eh

I actually know someone who used to work for OFSTED and left because she said it wasn’t fit for purpose.
This person now takes over under-performing schools and turns them around in a very short space of time.

She’s also glad her kids don’t have to endure the current education system!

I’m glad I don’t have to endure today’s kids.

I was going to disagree that teachers were overpaid, but now that I’ve heard actual anecdotal evidence on this thread, I think they must be.

No one that’s in a job that’s open to the market is overpaid, not for any length of time any way

Teaching is open to the market: every teacher chose to teach instead of any other job they could have chosen. If the best aren’t choosing teaching, perhaps we have to ask why they’re choosing other careers? Especially if, as has been said above, teaching’s a piece of piss with a huge salary and a massive pension.

For some reason, most of the people I was at uni with got jobs are software engineers, bankers, management consultants and accountants.

If the best aren’t choosing teaching, perhaps we have to ask why they’re choosing other careers?

Love science, hate kids.

No one that’s in a job that’s open to the market is overpaid, not for any length of time any way

Every time I watch a football player roll on the floor in feigned agony I think oh look there is someone in the free market who is not overpaid.

If they were overpaid, there would be big queues to get in, I don’t believe that’s the case.

Every time I watch a football player roll on the floor in feigned agony I think oh look there is someone in the free market who is not overpaid.

Not a free market

jamj1974 –

Apologies for the negativity but I am afraid my experiences both past and present are largely poor.

It funny, I often find that pupils get the teacher they deserve. What does that say about you and your spawn. Might be worth thinking about.

Try again, 3 out of 10 for trolling.

Not a free market

And not overpaid.

In what sense is it not free?
Is it state intervention that keeps the wages artificially high then?

In what sense is it not free?

If it was free I’d be able to get some training and have a good chance of securing a job as a footballer

Massively distorted – businesses (sic) being kept alive that under most normal circumstances would have gone bust => highly uncompetitive market, oligopolies (loosely defined) etc.

But a masterpiece in devising a system that transfers money from (largely) low income segments of the population to a very small subsegment and, in the wonderful multicultural society that we are, to people from multiple countries and races….which in most normal circumstances would lead to uproar. But since its such a national treasure the absurdity is allowed to continue. Pity that so many people are drawn in by it all.

But at least there is freedom of choice if not a free market!

If it was free I’d be able to get some training and have a good chance of securing a job as a footballer

You did at school, oh hang on!

You’re joking – right?

About which bit?