@ jhw Err, yes, ehy wouldn’t they be to the same standards? Has bike manufacturing quality control and tolerance markedly improved in the last 7 years?

@ mikewsmith Thats so sad, like a heroric trench soldier lying dead in the mud.

But the new ones weigh approx 5lbs more. Plus they start at almost a grand more than the cheapest old ones. Not too mention the very well-documented issues with stays and linkages that the earlier versions had. And that dent-tastic monocoque.

Sorry (I’m not sorry really), the new ones simply are built tougher. Have you ridden both an old one and a new one? Or even seen a photo? Or do you just really really like your old Enduro? Who’s talking shite?

@JHW

I took issue mainly with this

I think any that have been ridden more than 20 times a year will be reaching the end of their serviceable life in the next year or two at the latest.

As anyone with more than a rudimentary understanding of metal fatigue will tell you, the stresses on a frame aren’t necessarily dependant on the number of times you ride the bike. Rider weight, riding style and the terrain the bike is used on will all play a part – not to mention many Enduros are fitted with forks exceeding the warrantied 130mm limit set by Specialized. You’re plucking a figure out of thin air and failing to qualify it in any way, which frankly is BS.

Granted, 2002-3 models suffered from a well documented weakness in the chainstays. 2004 bikes were slightly (according to the Specialized rep I spoke to at the 2004 Olympia bike show) beefed up as a result. To what extent he didn’t specify, but my 2004 Enduro hasn’t had an issue in six years of use.

Where are YOUR opinions from?

Six years and several thousand miles of ownership from new without a frame failure. I’ve also ridden down a few steps too.

Sorry (I’m not sorry really), the new ones simply are built tougher. Have you ridden both an old one and a new one? Or even seen a photo? Or do you just really really like your old Enduro? Who’s talking shite?

If you’d read my previous post you’d know that I’ve owned an 04 Enduro since new and have test ridden the 2008 bike. I’ve also given my impressions about the newer bike. The 2008 had more pedal platform but still felt slightly “dead” compared with my Wolf Ridge, although I acknowledge that I’d like to test the 2010 bike.

At no point did I ever compare – as I think you possibly are mistaken here – old with new in an “older is better” sense. I’ve no doubt that new new bike is stronger and more capable downhill. Having said that, I and several others here have also ridden their 2002-04 bikes down stairs with complete confidence and continue to do so.

You must concede that’s a poor use of allegory on your part, surely.

But the new ones weigh approx 5lbs more. Plus they start at almost a grand more than the cheapest old ones

BTW, where the did you get 5lb weight difference from? My 2004 base model was approx 31lb new, which is in the ballpark of the 2010 base spec model. The difference in cost is also incorrect. The 2004 retailled at £1599, the 2010 retails at £1999.

Don’t forget the increases in price due to currency fluctuations too…

Do you honestly think the older Enduros are built to the same standard as the new ones?

Define “standard”?

Materials? Precision? Componentry? Again, this isn’t a challenge, I’d simply like you to qualify your statements with something more than an allegory.

Sorry (I’m not sorry really), the new ones simply are built tougher. Have you ridden both an old one and a new one? Or even seen a photo? Or do you just really really like your old Enduro? Who’s talking shite?

If you’re going to be such a patronising smart arse, you’ll also be aware that the travel has increased and the bike has been moved towards a more freeride bent. The build method returned to tubular at this time and also saw an increase in frame weights IIRC, not becuase tey were just beefing up the frame, but because the frame was expected to take more beating in line with its freeride lite positioning.
Think of what was considered a DH bike 15 years ago and compare it to now, no similarity at all. Times change and the game moves on. Compare my 2004 enduro with the current Stumpjumper FSR range, similar travel and similar build weight.

Also ever heard of inflation? Of course the newer models cost more esp since the recession kicked in!! It was nearly 9(?) years ago the enduro platform was launched.

Yes I do like my 2004 Enduro very much and I am fully aware of the models onward development. There were isses in the earlier models (my 2003 cracked at the top tube / seat tube junction, the 2002 seatstays were prone to failure), but I’ve had my 2004 for I guess 4 years at least without failure (and NO dents in the monocoque). I havent ridden the newer ones because its hard to get hold of an XL sized demo bike.
Try not to be SO defensive when you are the one posting sweeping statements whilst being selective in what you chose to point out.

@Bigyin

A friend’s 2003 Enduro cracked at the same place, right on the weld between the seat tube and top tube. He’s big bloke and ran a layback on a size large frame, which may have had something to do with it…

…his 2004 replacement frame in XL has been doing just fine ever since and is still going strong today.

Im a big bloke (obviously if i have an XL).
The seatube on the 2004 bikes was thicker than the 2003 bikes and not machined down IIRC and there were a few other changes that I noticed that generally beefed a few bits up.
Oh and mine is still going strong a my main bike.

Looks like jhw has left the building, shame!

Armed with new knoledge, maybe he’s gone to see if a ’02-’04 enduro will actually ride down steps?

I got it in the end and finished building it up today. It’ll get it’s first proper ride tomorrow to test it out. It’s a large to replace my medium marin but with a 50 rather than 70mm stem overall length to bars is basically the same.

To all the people commenting about hardtails I already have a 456SS to use when the mood takes me. I tried a few before it and this one stays. I like my bikes slack and low hence the ss is the perfect one for me.

the stresses on a frame aren’t necessarily dependant on the number of times you ride the bike.

But the number of rides surely is a pretty key part of it. I chose the “20 times a year” figure more to indicate – “a bike that has been ridden regularly, not kept stuffed in a shed“. My point was (is) that older design Specialized Enduros ridden regularly will be reaching the end of their shelf life in the next few years. I don’t think it’s normal to keep mountain bikes longer than ten years or so, if you’re riding a couple of times a month. Is it?

I’ve no doubt that new new bike is stronger and more capable downhill.

That’s all I’m trying to say. The reason I even got into the differences between it and the old design was that someone posted an ad for an old design bike, on a thread discussing the new design, without any warning that the two are completely different. In this context that could be misleading, so I wanted to flag it. If the ad had been in the classifieds I’d have kept my nose out, caveat emptor, but as it was on the discussion forum I thought some clarification was needed.

where the did you get 5lb weight difference from?

My old Enduro was 28lbs, my new one is upwards of 32, so that’s approx 5lbs.

Nb the “almost a grand more” quote is based on the RRP of the most basic 2002 Enduro – £1,299 – as against that of the most basic new Enduro – £1,999.

Define “standard”

“Built to the same standard” to me means ability to take impacts and resist fatigue, and in this respect I think the new versions are better.

Regarding “patronising” – it wasn’t me that added the “jhw talking shite” link at the top of this thread. I don’t have a degree in engineering or a job involving knowledge of metal fatigue (mercifully) but I’ve owned both bikes (the old version for a while now) and thought that would be sufficient to post some views…

The fact is if the OP forked out the £800 asked on the old version expecting roughly equivalent performance to the new version he’d be disappointed!

Regarding “patronising” – it wasn’t me that added the “jhw talking shite” link at the top of this thread.

Not sure if thats aimed at me, but i can assure you I didnt put that.

However I would agree the newer ones certainly dont have a rep for breaking like the moncoque models did. Although the changes I mentioned to the last your of the monocoques seemed to have resolved the issues previous ones suffered from.

Nb the “almost a grand more” quote is based on the RRP of the most basic 2002 Enduro – £1,299 – as against that of the most basic new Enduro – £1,999.

I still think thats more down to general inflation than up specc’ing

If any one is interested there was a medium 2009 Enduro expert in steels at Newcastle for 2k in their sale. Seemed a bit of a bargain to me.

Im in no way affiliated with this shop btw.

@JHW

Regarding “patronising” – it wasn’t me that added the “jhw talking shite” link at the top of this thread.

Me neither. Although I disagreed with your assertion and took issue with the context of your argument I wouldn’t tag a post in such a way unless it was deliberate trolling, which your post certainly wasn’t.

“Built to the same standard” to me means ability to take impacts and resist fatigue, and in this respect I think the new versions are better.

In this respect, newer bikes are almost certainly stronger as a consequence of being designed with more travel. 05-09 bikes were designed with dual crown forks in mind (the 150mm 2005 model was warrantied for dual crowns IIRC), but then 2005 bikes had failures around the chainstay too. Arguably, the build quality of 2007-09 bikes could be criticised because of reliability issues stemming from build – which would also question the assertion “built to a better standard”, in the context of assembly and design quality.

That’s all I’m trying to say. The reason I even got into the differences between it and the old design was that someone posted an ad for an old design bike, on a thread discussing the new design

But the thread is titled “Talk to me about specialized enduros”, no?

Some of us are really fond of our older model Enduros for good reasons, personally I like the aesthetics a great deal and found 5″ of travel spot on for the riding I do.

That doesn’t detract from the fact that I really, really like the new model (2010) bike a lot. I haven’t ridden it but would love to do so, mainly because it’s a Specialized Enduro, which to me evokes the best compromise between both worlds of AM and XC, the same is true today as it was in 2004.