For breakfast I have a 4 egg omelette with various seasoning, current favourite is smoked paprika, often try those ones designed to go meat. an omelette takes 5 mins to make, only slightly longer than cereal in a bowl and milk. 2 days a week I don’t have time to eat break at home unless I get up really early. those days I have a big tub of natural yoghurt with raspberries or blueberries. yum

My god this is illuminating, what do we think the carbon footprint of all these fatties trying to go keto is?
I eat less carbs than I used too but then I exercise less too, but I replaced mine with fruit and veg. I dont think I’d shit for a month if I tried eating what some on here suggest!

Why would you want to eat like that? Unless you absolutely had to?

To promote increased Sports performance?

food as medicine

Or put another way, food as fuel.   It’s the assumption that food is a gratuitous means to entertainment and mental satisfaction which leads to many health issues.   Change your thinking to think of what goes in as either pre workout fuel or post workout recovery and the quality almost always follows quickly.

I eat less carbs than I used too but then I exercise less too, but I replaced mine with fruit and veg.

So you probably don’t eat less carbs, you’re just getting them from a different source.

So you probably don’t eat less carbs, you’re just getting them from a different source.

Pretty sure a plate of salad with some fish has less carbs than have spuds or pasta with it but I take your point. I have reduced starchy carbs like potato, rice and pasta quite a lot. Almost every evening meal used to have them. Now it might be twice a week. Still eat loads of oats though.

Lots of carbs in fruit though?

It took me a while to get used to not having 1/3rd or more of my plate being some starchy carby thing. Replacing it with cauliflower “rice” or courgetti made the transition easier. Sweet potato/squash etc as mash is lower carb than spuds too.

To promote increased Sports performance?

Sure, I absolutely get that, but 1. Isn’t it a fact that on average; elite athletes die younger than the average population, and 2. wasn’t there a study that showed more than half of elite athletes would take a supplement if it increased their performance even if they knew it would shorten their life span…So I hardly think they’re neutral (or indeed a good study group) for extreme diets.

Or put another way, food as fuel

Indeed, the same applies, most people who aren’t weirdos* (like most athletes) don’t think like this. they look at food as part of their lives; to be enjoyed, not to be pushed down as part of a training plan…

If I was king, I think I’d educate folk, rather than make a list of “food you can’t eat”.

* I know you’re not really [secretly thinks that all of you are; absolutely…]   🙂

Sweet potato/squash etc as mash is lower carb than spuds too.

and much tastier!! 😋

If I was king, I think I’d educate folk, rather than make a list of “food you can’t eat”.

Nobody has done this.

Some people are basically more tolerant of eating carbohydrate than others. The same amount of carb will trigger a different insulin response in different people.

The unlucky ones are the people that put weight on easier than others. The lucky ones do not react as bad.

If can eat a lot of carb and not put on weight, then crack on.

I on the other hand, found the benefits of eating a reduced amount of carbs significant. Apart from the weight, my digestion improved and my old shoulder injury doesn’t ache are just a couple of things. I feel better for it.

Also, I don’t miss starchy carbs much at all. Apart from cold turkey sandwiches on Christmas day night, with a bag of crisps…..

they look at food as part of their lives; to be enjoyed, not to be pushed down as part of a training plan…

Fair point. I wonder, does this allude to why dieting is tough(er) for non athletes in that they don’t have such a regimented targetted incentive?

Yeah, that makes sense, you not looking to give stuff up, more to eat stuff that will make you perform better.

Nobody has done this.

I was commenting on the list complied by Tim Noakes (who has completely done that)

Mrs K just came home with these:

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2itYSfB]2020-02-16_04-43-16[/url]

0.1g carbs &13g Protein per pack…

Yum!

https://www.thenoakesfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Red-List.pdf

https://www.thenoakesfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Green-List.pdf

https://www.thenoakesfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Orange-List-1.pdf

THE NOAKES FOUNDATION FOOD LISTS

Reported

Lots of “Experts” on here int there, some don’t seem to know the difference between Nutritional Ketosis and keto Acidosis, 2 completely different things, i can Assure you that ive been Keto for 6yrs and most certainly still alive.

@Kryton57 I think I love you!

@nickc – I’m on my second bout of keto. Did keto about 2 years ago for 6 months – lost 2.5 stone. It’s taken a while but I put that weight back on (and I understand why).

First time round, really hard to start – week of hard keto flu – 3 weeks just being down on power. But I adapted, with exercise, and was astonished to find that I could go all day, ten hours, on a bike ride and not feel the remotest bit hungry and never bonk.

Ofc, you lose the top 15% of your power (as you *must* burn carbs for that) – but the tradeoff was worth it. And thus began a long learning process about what I could / could not eat, testing myself to check whether I was actually in ketosis (I was, and remained so) and understanding what, if any, downsides there appeared to be.

I worked out like this -:
Downsides:
Constipation. I found myself pooping less. My missus, on the other hand wasn’t affected. So I took the only supplement I’ve ever taken – occasional fybogel. Job jobbed (literally).
No beer: It’s made of carbs. I love real ale. Gin and slimline and dry white wine is a poor substitute.
Eating out: Steak and a salad. Or salads in general. It does limit what you can eat out. But still, managed it.

Upsides:
The removal of feeling hungry. How amazing this is cannot be overstated. You learn very quickly that hunger is totally a function of a carbohydrate-rich diet and being free from those cravings is *amazing*. Totally amazing. As I’m on my second bout of keto now (month or so – straight in, no keto flu) it’s felt like a total relief. Like I imagine what no longer being dependent on a heroin must feel like. It’s *that* great. – and because of this, you naturally don’t snack/overeat. You’re not “restricting” your calories – not consciously. It’s just that you don’t feel pressured to stop what you’re doing because you “must” eat lunch or go to the vending machine and get something – you just wait until the proper time comes around again.

Forces discipline – if you want to remain in keto, then there ain’t no cheat days. You either do it, or you don’t. Some people think this is a bit strong. Maybe. I think they’re weak. Sorry. But with the removal of cravings (see above) I find it incredibly easy.

Forces decent diet – I don’t supplement. I don’t drink protein shakes. Always real, fresh, home-cooked food. I do, admittedly, eat more avocados and eggs than anyone else I know, but I love ’em, so that’s not a hardship. *Lots* of salads, all the colours of above-ground veggies. I eat like a low-carb king. Meat heavy? Maybe – but then I always have been. I’ve been more conscious though so fish + dairy feature more heavily alongside the veggies.

So, will I keep the weight off this time? I hope so. I see it like this – I’ve learned lessons from last time and understand what I was (wilfully) ignoring and the behaviours I was exhibiting (and the reasons why) I let it creep back up over time. Hopefully I’ll have learned from them and do the right things this time round, more of the time.

In the meantime, I’ll get down to fighting weight. My diet will be really good. It won’t change much when I reintroduce carbs – more butternut squash, more beans, more oats (in moderation), more fresh fruit, small amounts of wholegrain bread (in moderation), more swede, parsnip, carrot. These are the things I’ve cut out – not chocolate and crisps, because I never really went there anyway. Occasional puddings will come back in, on the stipulation that it’s on a weekend that I’ve been riding, not mid-week.

When you look at it that way, keto’s a no-brainer. My missus could do it for the rest of her life, but the fybogel thing for me makes it a deal breaker. But six months to knock a couple of stone off whilst eating a diet that takes away the stress of being hungry, whilst my doctor says I’ve got the blood work of someone really really healthy (pre-keto I had high cholesterol)?

What’s to hate?

Sweet potato/squash etc as mash is lower carb than spuds too.

No, about the same amount of carbs, but lower GI, meaning they are released more slowly, helping you avoid peaks and troughs during the day.

if you want to remain in keto, then there ain’t no cheat days. You either do it, or you don’t. Some people think this is a bit strong. Maybe. I think they’re weak.

The removal of feeling hungry

I get this without going full Keto. Reducing carbs and having a”cheat” day doesn’t impact this. As you say, the reduced desire to eat is, for me, the secret of success. I reckon my diet is mostly like the one you plan to switch to once you’ve reached your desired weight.

Folks really, consult a dietician, some shocking advice being given out here. Noakes is a total fruitcake for one….
The keto ‘diet’ is nothing more than cutting out calories, of course you’ll lose weight, and cycle a shed load slower…
A dietician, before anything else, they’re really rather good

Aye @Scotroutes. My problem isn’t really that I don’t eat good food when I’m eating carbs – as long as I’ve had a hole in my arse I’ve cooked good wholesome fresh meals.

Our biggest problem is that we cook for six when there’s only two of us. I’m getting hot on measuring out our ingredients this time around. It forces you to think a bit and makes your food (and therefore your wallet) go way further.

Next time round, when I’ve been lardy one weekend I’ll make sure that the next week is *really* hot to make up for it. In the meantime I’ll crack on 🙂

wesleyspencer9

Member
I’ll send more in depth info later but I’m also an anti doping officer. This means I get to sit about with elite athletes making idle chit chat waiting for them to pee.

I don’t know a single individual or team who uses keto.

However there’s lots of curiosity about vegan diets!!

Selective quoting of course ( much as the adherents of keto diets do)

Low carbohydrate-high protein diets, used on a regular basis and without consideration of the nature of carbohydrates or the source of proteins, are associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease.

https://www.bmj.com/content/344/bmj.e4026

However, there are also several adverse effects of ketogenic diets. These include muscle cramps, bad breath, changes in bowel habits, keto-flu and loss of energy11. Hence, monitoring individuals on keto-diet closely once or twice a month for blood glucose, ketones cardiac and other parameters is essential.

The dictum, ‘Moderation is the key’ should be used, while following any long-term diet plan. While low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet does, admittedly, show dramatic improvements in the short term, these can increase morbidity and mortality in the long run and are rarely sustainable. Instead of letting the pendulum of nutrients swing on either side, one must be vigilant of the balance and interplay of nutrients, and there should be a representation of all food groups on the plate

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6251269/

What’s to hate?

Nothing. Listen I’m not anti-keto, do what you want, it’s your diet. My point was that heavily restricting your food like Dr Noakes is going to be really hard to the point of failurefor most people (like you). You said it yourself, you think people that ca’t manage it “They’re weak” TBH no they’re not, they’re just humans…BTW I eat all that shit all the time*, I’m 178cm and 74.4kg (this morning’s weight) If heavily restricting what you eat works for you, great, but every one is different, eh?

As I said up there, I’d rather educate folk rather than give them a list of food they can never have (most of which are the yummy bits for a lot of people, me included) Tell me I’ve got to eat like that otherwise I’ll die, then I’ll probably manage it, but tell me I can’t have chocolate, or a Friday brownie, and I’ll fall off the wagon pretty much the first Friday that rolls around (’cause, y’know, I’m weak…) People still smoke, even though they probably know there’s a high chance they’ll get cancer, experience says tell people they can’t do something, is pretty much a guarantee that they’ll do it.

*Obvs not all the time but this morning’s porridge was lush, but if you honestly think that pasta or spuds are making people fat, then you don’t need a diet, you need to stand in a supermarket for 20mins looking at peoples baskets 🙂

I get this without going full Keto.

Likewise.  After a week off I’m back on the high Protien diet as of yesterday for 3 months and yesterday I did struggle a little, but I know in the coming days the hunger pangs will disappear.

far out! I’ve actually just had a low carb high protein brekky. Three egg omelette with avocado, cherry tomatoes, big mug of tea. Then followed it with a high carb second course: two large slices of wholemeal toast and marmalade, and honey, blueberries, small mug of coffee and am now getting a pleasant carb/caffeine rush.

Can’t say I’m very taken by all this talk of no beer and hunger pangs etc. Am I missing out?

First – for those (@tjagain notably) who think keto is low-carb, high-protein – it’s not. It’s low carb, low-to-moderate protein, high fat.

@nickc – if you can’t hack the idea of cutting things – cake, for example, out completely then fair enough. Keto is not, and never will be for you.

However, once in ketosis it’s *easy*. You simply don’t miss or crave those things. It’s my conjecture that the majority of the western population (70% of whom are overweight or obese – a massive well-understood health risk in itself) feel the need to have sweet things to enjoy life for one reason – they’re addicted to sugar.

Keto more than compensates for that loss by, as I described, freeing you from those feelings. It’s *such* a relief.

As for the rest – I’d happily put my current diet, and blood work, against most of the western worlds in terms of nutrition, variety and taste.

🙂

Chevy – no I am not. I understand the differences completely. I have even said low carb is a good sensible lifelong way of eating. Its deliberately putting your body into ketosis that is the daft bit. A high fat diet is dangerous to your health.

Again as I said on here – many folk claiming to be following a keto diet are not – they are following a low carb diet. Others are doing intermittent keto.

Just follw the evidence – the real rigourous peer reviewed evidence

keto.

Just follw the evidence – the real rigourous peer reviewed evidence

The trouble is, some people seem to think a YouTube video counts as peer-reviewed

Yet amongst all this no one and most notably TJ, has posted the stunning health benefits of a high carb diet…

Yet amongst all this no one and most notably TJ, has posted the stunning health benefits of a high carb diet…

why has everything got to be to extremes?

Just follw the evidence – the real rigourous peer reviewed evidence

I’ve read the two papers you linked. One is a discussion piece rather than any actual research. I did read one of the papers it referenced, which was interesting – in short form, it found a suggestion of increased cardiovascular risk in people whose ‘extra’ fats were animal based, and a lower risk in those whose extra fats were plant-based. One suggestion being that changes in the fruit/vegetable component of diet might be influential rather than simply the % of fats vs carbs.

Whenever I’ve followed a lower carb diet, I tend to eat a lot more veg. I can understand the argument that simply filling your plate with bacon and eggs might not be a healthy approach in the longer term.

The other (BMJ) followed a large cohort of women who self-reported their diet at one point in time, then looked at their cardiovascular mortality over decades. They found a very slight increase in risk over that period, and this needs the usual health warning about the validity of using what someone said they ate in 1990 as a guide to why they keeled over in 2015. Also, the results did not look at the source of the extra fats reported (plant vs animal).

It’s an area in which it is very hard to separate diet and lifestyle to come up with a definitive answer.

You simply don’t miss or crave those things.

Sure, I don’t eat a lot of sweets and once you get out if the habit of buying them, I find I don’t “crave” them either. But the difference is that I will and can eat anything I want at any time, and won’t feel guilty about it. I’m educated enough to realise that if I eat nothing but ice cream and drink nothing but Coke I’ll get fat, and that’s all it needs for me to maintain my weight

I agree with you that most folk eat too much sugar, but I think that there’s a massive part of the population that really don’t know this stuff to the extent they need to, to make better decisions about the food they eat.

I genuinely don’t think a restricted keto diet would work for anyone who isn’t totally invested in it, and for most folk, that’s too much like hard work. (it is for me, for example)

But Nickc, what you are talking about now is a choice.   I don’t think anyone here is stopping you – or anyone else – making the lifestyle choice that you prefer.   This thread is essentially discussing the effects, benefits and detriments of a Keto based diet.

At the moment there’s little evidence that its a damaging as some would like to point out, but there’s lots of evidence – real life – that people have posted whereby the atypically identified outputs of todays “normal” diets e.g. weight gain, lethargy, reduced performance have been countered albeit with a sporting influence.

No ones stopping you seeking a balanced diet including Cake and Beer, but you’d probably agree that in the main our diet is influenced by consumerism toward an increasingly unhealthy balance.   Keto or not, it takes conscious effort and decision to remain on a balanced or specialist diet these days e.g. its very easy to reach for a Sausage Roll & Prawn Cocktails crips when you’re rushing for lunch at work, unless you put effort and discipline toward changing that choice.

Don’t disagree with anything you’ve said 👍

Sweet potato/squash etc as mash is lower carb than spuds too.

I was going to post that this is bollocks too but couldnt be arsed!!

Some people on here, especially Kryton sound like they have eating disorders to my untrained ear. Also why do all the keto advocates seem to have massively yo yoing weights?

IToday I ran with my 20 miles with my running club on nothing and tonight im definately i ketosis. Last week I did a 17.5 mile fell race only ate 2 eggs before and nothing during the race.
All month I’ve experimenting eating mostly only meat, eggs and full fat milk.

As I said earlier, justifying an eating disorder.

I will and can eat anything I want at any time, and won’t feel guilty about it.

Pretty much my position. I eat a healthy diet and then a rather less healthy diet on top of that, but hey… I can certainly put on a pound or two of fat with injury/christmas/whatever but I’ve never been in a position where I’d want, or it would do me any good, to lose a stone!

why do all the keto advocates seem to have massively yo yoing weights?

Is something I’ve certainly seen in real life. I know quite a few who’ve gone on about how good atkins or whatever is and you can see they’ve lost weight,but back it always seems to come. I’d rather think of food (nice food) as something good, than as part of some endless battle.

Can people accusing others of having eating disorders git tae ****, please?

It seems that anything that isn’t eating an exactly equal ratio of calories from carbs, protein, and, fats three to six times per day is an eating disorder now.

Everyone is different and have different requirements and that includes everything from hormone control or to working shifts.

If you feel the need to accuse others of having an eating disorder to feel better about your own lifestyle I’d suggest you’re the one with the problem.