Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 287 total)
  • Talk to me about Keto
  • tjagain
    Full Member

    Beating cancer thru ketosis? 🙂

    Youtube links as “evidence”

    A website run by a sports trainer person as “evidence”

    Any proper rigourous peer reviewed stuff? BMJ, or one of the mainstream journals?

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    TJ, you’ve been called out as incorrect several times and are now just trolling and damaging your credibility.

    Instead of indiscriminately calling people out why dont you provide your own evidence to support your claims so we can all have a read and educate ourselves?

    steamtb
    Full Member

    It’s very difficult to change old beliefs, especially the incorrect ones, we take a lot of persuading and often get extremely defensive and aggressive about our choices. Thankfully we have increasing numbers of GPs who now understand the issues caused by insulin resistance, metabolic type syndromes and the power of a low carb diet to reverse these problems; meaning amongst other things, reversals of type 2 diabetes, de-prescribing of blood pressure and many other meds. It’s taken a long time, but international diabetes organisations are finally starting to change their guidelines and highlight the importance of low carb diets, that’s going to save a lot of pain for a lot of people.

    Keep an open mind and research the area, if you are interested in root causes and insulin resistance then there is lots of interesting research to read spanning the last three decades.

    I’m a type 1 diabetic and bizarrely, although aware of Bernstein’s work, until a year or so ago I shied away from high fat / low carb diets as I presumed it was rubbish and bad for you, that’s your typical healthcare professional education for you. I was only tempted to look into it further by some of my colleagues; extremely intelligent MDs at the top of their global profession, even then I wasn’t convinced; it took a lot of reading to change my entrenched beliefs. Looking back, as a type 1 diabetic, it’s hard to see why I didn’t research it properly before now, maybe I just didn’t want to challenge my biases.

    Enough of a ramble from me, a summary? Lots of diets can be healthy, including low fat and the diametrically opposed low carb; low carb is not a fad / short lived diet ; low carb is not unhealthy; calories in and calories out is exceptionally flawed at best. Lots of research addresses these points. I suppose the biggest thing is, just eat whole / real foods and don’t eat anything that makes you want more and more…

    As a good starter for ten, diet dr has lots of info and research links and has a medical peer review panel for its material:

    https://www.dietdoctor.com/

    Dr Gerber and Ivor Cummings have also written a great book:

    If you are interested in the work done by the UKs low carb GPs then look up Dr Unwin, he has also done lots of great lectures that are on YouTube. Happy reading and different things can work for different people, we don’t need to attack other people’s choices, it’s fun to learn new things…

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    BruceWee
    Full Member

    BMJ, or one of the mainstream journals?

    Feel free to post evidence to support your statement that keto is dangerous.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    I found a link in the BMJ earlier. Of course its dangerous – ketogenesis is a dangerous state to be in. Ill have a further look

    I note not a single one of the advocates for this has produced any proper evidence

    Low carb is a good diet. Ketogenesis is not. Youtube links, self serving websites are not good evidence.

    Kryton – youhave called me out but have produced not a single piece of credible evidence

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Its up to those wanting to change the acepted medical paradigm to provide evidence to support their view

    However a few minutes on google Scholar ( I no longer have athens access so cannot get to many papers) gives this

    CONCLUSIONS:
    Switching to the KD was associated with increased cholesterol and inflammatory markers, decreased triglycerides, and decreased insulin-mediated antilipolysis. Glucose homeostasis parameters were diet dependent and test meal dependent.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31067015

    I really cannot be arsed with this any more.

    Provide me with some proper evidence I will listen. Want to find out more yourselves then please rely on proper sources

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Kryton – youhave called me out but have produced not a single piece of credible evidence

    Touche perhaps to be fair, yet in fact I have – myself.

    Want to find out more yourselves then please rely on proper sources

    😀 A self admission?

    steamtb
    Full Member

    Lots of research here to start:

    https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/science

    Do not just read the abstract or conclusions, they can be extremely misleading on both sides, you need to read the full studies 🙂

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    Its up to those wanting to change the acepted medical paradigm to provide evidence to support their view

    Fair enough but your the one who shouts about it being dangerous every time the subject comes up. If you want to tell people not to do it because they are putting their health at risk then you also have to provide evidence.

    You’ve still to post a link comparing how likely you are to die trying to lose weight using a ketogenic diet vs a Eat less, move more method.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19641727

    CONCLUSIONS:
    The present study shows the beneficial effects of a long-term ketogenic diet. It significantly reduced the body weight and body mass index of the patients. Furthermore, it decreased the level of triglycerides, LDL cholesterol and blood glucose, and increased the level of HDL cholesterol. Administering a ketogenic diet for a relatively longer period of time did not produce any significant side effects in the patients. Therefore, the present study confirms that it is safe to use a ketogenic diet for a longer period of time than previously demonstrated.

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    Just on the subject of LDL and HDL cholesterol there seems to be a lot of conflicting results regarding whether keto raises LDL while lowering HDL or the opposite.

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    I doubt I could ever commit to keto, even if I wanted, but do really want to cut carbs.

    What would be a convenient keto-lite / low carb breakfast strategy? Am guessing porridge oats don’t feature in keto. What about fruit, is there a right and a wrong sort of carb?

    Don’t want to just live on eggs for breakfast!

    doomanic
    Full Member

    Bacon? Sausages?

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Also, where would, e.g. a tin of Baxter’s Scotch Broth sit on the spectrum? 28g of carbohydrates, so would that still be compatible with a low-carb diet?

    I’m not interested in following a diet as such, but am interested in adjusting life-style in the right direction!

    Twodogs
    Full Member

    I wondered where all the nutjobs from the coronavirus thread had gone

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Just look for foods which have pretty much equal amounts of protein & carbs, or more protein and you’ll soon have a quite a shopping list.

    My breakfasts consist of poached eggs, scrambled eggs, Spinach, tomatoes, bacon, gammon, peanut butter on toast x 1.     Lunches & dinner are Italian hams, sausage, peanut butter, tuna, eggs, cottage cheese, peppers, tomatoes, spinach, kale, lettuce, chicken, pork or beef in various forms and snacks are supermarket available bars, protein shakes, nuts, cheese and chicken snacks e.g. M&S Firecracker fillets, yum.    There’s quite a variety and all of the above just limit the bread & pasta e.g, 2 eggs scrambled on 1 slice wholemeal toast which has 11g protein on its own and about 25g with the eggs.


    @13thfloormonk
    just add up the carbs to your limit and go from there.  Apps like myfitnesspal make this easy, but generally just compare the carbs & protein on the food label – anything with carbs equal to or less than the proteins is a good start.

    .

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Bacon? Sausages?

    I think I have absorbed far too much general dietary chatter over the years to believe that bacon or sausage can play any regular part in a healthy diet!

    Anyway, even boiling eggs takes too long and is too messy for my average weekday morning routine. I think I’ll just need to build a ‘diet’ around the fact that I’m probably having porridge and blueberries most mornings…

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Thanks Kryton – that’s a good list. Wholemeal toast is good, I just found it difficult when calorie counting, one slice wholemeal toast with butter blew threw a lot of calories for not much filling effect!

    Twodogs
    Full Member

    How anyone can think that a diet involving ham, bacon and sausage can be remotely healthy is a mystery.

    doomanic
    Full Member

    https://tasty.co/recipe?0=%2Fbacon-egg-cups&slug=bacon-egg-cups&canonicalUrl=https%3A%2F%2Ftasty.co

    Bacon and egg cups. I make 4 at a time at the same time as cooking the evening meal. That’s 4 breakfasts in 25 minutes. Delicious hot or cold.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    These are also good – 81 cals yet 17g of protein:

    https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/light-free-skyr-icelandic-style-yogurt-strawberry-stride-150g

    How anyone can think that a diet involving ham, bacon and sausage can be remotely healthy is a mystery.

    Your selective quoting is pretty obvious to all, you forgot tomato, kale, salad, lettuce, peppers… and various other fruits & vegetables I didn’t list because I was listing high protein options.

    lambchop
    Free Member

    Kryton, unforch peanut butter/peanuts are not keto friendly. Pecans, walnuts, almonds are all good but peanuts (actually a legume) are a no no.

    lambchop
    Free Member

    Tjagain, have you got Netflix? If so watch The Magic Pill.

    Stainypants
    Full Member

    I’ve been low carb since November. Lost 2.5 stone. Today I ran with my 20 miles with my running club on nothing and tonight im definately i ketosis. Last week I did a 17.5 mile fell race only ate 2 eggs before and nothing during the race.

    All month I’ve experimenting eating mostly only meat, eggs and full fat milk.

    The main benifit of getting fat adapted ( I wouldn’t worry about whether your in ketosis or not) is you don’t feel hungry between meals so don’t snack and you can skip meals as you fuel from endogenous fat.

    This makes 16:8 24 hour or 48 hour fasting easy.

    This us by far the most sustainable diet I’ve done and I’m eating a higher % calories from protein.

    Looking forward to tommorrow brekkie. Eggs, sausage bacon and black pudding.

    Followed by slow cooked leg of lamb for Sunday tea.

    Go for it don’t over do the cream, coconut oil and MCT.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    are not keto friendly.

    Sure, but I wasn’t posting a Keto list, but a high Protien list.

    Twodogs
    Full Member

    Your selective quoting is pretty obvious to all,

    Yeah, we’ll done! I’m selectively quoting because they’re the things no-one should eat on a daily basis.

    paton
    Free Member

    nickc
    Full Member

    From one of Paton’s links comes this nugget of information…

    Foods that Tim Noakes has removed from his diet

    – Sugar (Must be completely removed from your diet)
    – All sugary drinks including cola drinks and sweetened fruit juices Bread
    – Rice
    – Pasta
    – Potatoes
    – Porridge
    – Breakfast cereals
    – Some high energy fruits like bananas
    – All confectionary – cakes and sweets
    – Desserts containing sugar and carbohydrates
    – Artificial sweetners and products containing these products (like “diet” colas)
    – Vegetable oils containing high concentrations of omega 6 fatty acids

    I would suggest that any list like this would be unsustainable for many (if not most) folk. Certainly personally I’d not want to restrict my food (I’m not going to call it a diet) to this extent. Some of those things are clearly “bad” for you if you’re eating them constantly and in quantity, but to remove for example All confectionery – cakes and sweets from your life is going to: 1. Make those thing probably instantly highly desirable to you and given that we live in a world where cakes and sweeties are literally everywhere you look, close as makes no difference to torture, and 2.  a very dull and weird person indeed….

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Nickc id agree but he has a medical issue which kinda forces the diet .  For the rest of us that’s what cheat days and rest weeks are for.   I don’t use cheat days but after 4-5 weeks of disciplined eating im happy to smash a beer and a pizza.

    Its interesting that Tim Noakes said his diet cured two respiratory issues. I have EIB and havent had a single issue this winter but i put that down to the steroid inhaler which is new to me this year, despite the fact i keep forgetting to use it.  Food for thought….

    nickc
    Full Member

    but he has a medical issue which kinda forces the diet

    ah right, didn’t know that. Wow, that must suck balls….

    gobuchul
    Free Member

    I would suggest that any list like this would be unsustainable for many (if not most) folk.

    Not for me. I used to eat loads of bread, pasta, potato and rice. I now eat none.

    I eat low GI berries for my fruit.

    I occasionally have a diet drink.

    Why do you think it would be unsustainable?

    paton
    Free Member

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Vegetable oils containing high concentrations of omega 6 fatty acids

    Ha, as soon as I read that I thought to myself I BET olive oil is high in omega 6.

    Happily Google suggests otherwise.

    I still struggle with the idea of omitting ‘natural’ carbs like potatoes, rice, porridge (granted the oats have been processed to a degree) when surely people have been existing on these since day 1? e.g. the human metabolism must be adapted to these carbs. I could understand not in the quanities we absorb them in the modern day but still.

    Funnily enough, if I pinch the concepts I think are achievable and sustainable I come up with a diet which is basically ‘less beer, crisps and cake’. Quelle surpris…

    gobuchul
    Free Member

    I still struggle with the idea of omitting ‘natural’ carbs like potatoes, rice, porridge (granted the oats have been processed to a degree) when surely people have been existing on these since day 1?

    They really haven’t. They only became common food when people began farming.

    (granted the oats have been processed to a degree)

    To a degree? Completely inedible until they have been processed.

    paton
    Free Member

    nickc
    Full Member

    Paton, I’m pretty much near referring you to the mods for Trolling. Either express an opinion on ANYTHING…but for **** sake stop the endless linking to articles and you tube its tedious to the point of piss taking. It’s a discussion forum FFS.

    nickc
    Full Member

    Why do you think it would be unsustainable?

    well, you have for start….

    Because food (for most folk) is inextricably linked to everything that makes them a part of a functioning society, on his diet, you can’t celebrate, eat out, share a meal with any-one, it would be a soulless, joy free singularly tedious experience, food as medicine. Humans aren’t designed to live like that. If you have to for health reasons, then fair enough, but I wouldn’t want to wish that “diet” on any-one

    My question is: Why would you want to eat like that? Unless you absolutely had to?

    gobuchul
    Free Member

    Because food (for most folk) is inextricably linked to everything that makes them a part of a functioning society, on his diet, you can’t celebrate, eat out, share a meal with any-one,

    What?

    I’m not sure why you would think that?

    Why can’t you celebrate, eat out and share a meal?

    I will be eating a meal later today of roast sirloin of beef with vegetables, just no potato. I will be having 1 small Yorkshire pudding. The others eating with me will have more potato and Yorkshire pudding than me.

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Paton, I’m pretty much near referring you to the mods for Trolling. Either express an opinion on ANYTHING…but for **** sake stop the endless linking to articles and you tube its tedious to the point of piss taking. It’s a discussion forum FFS.

    Ha, I’ve been tempted to say the same in the past but in fairness, if you don’t want to watch the links you don’t have to, and if you do, then they contribute to the conversation. I just can’t be arsed watching videos or listening to podcasts as it takes longer than just reading an article and I’m rarely viewing the forum on a computer with sound…

    To a degree? Completely inedible until they have been processed.

    Fair point, I’d never researched it, hadn’t realised they had been steamed/toasted etc. just thought they had been rolled a bit!

    rone
    Full Member

    How anyone can think that a diet involving ham, bacon and sausage can be remotely healthy is a mystery

    1) misunderstanding what it’s all about.
    2) not all ham, bacon and sausages are made the same.

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