Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 287 total)
  • Talk to me about Keto
  • doomanic
    Full Member

    I started this on Wednesday after a couple of weeks in the doldrums so today’s weigh-in is my new reference point. It will be interesting to see where I’m at after a full week.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    It is notable that the successful endurance athletes that adopt this diet, increase their carb intake when exercise loads increase and when racing and only use pure keto for short periods. When exercising on keto after fat adaptation I am slower with no sprinting ability , but don’t bonk either. Adding even small amounts of carbs feels like rocket fuel.

    This is me currently.  I’ve lost 12lbs since November, eating no more than 100g carbs per day and training most Z2 – long and slow.  I have a 2200 daily cals target but end up about 3500 in deficit weekly.  I’m not strictly Keto but “Protien high and Carb low”.   I’m eating mainly meats, loads of eggs, post-workout recovery shakes (Rego) and Greek / Skyr yoghurts.

    As above, I loaded for 36hrs pre race for a winter 4h training race – plus on bike fuel – and was surprised at my performance on the day posting my highest Position ever with no taper and 300km across the week in my legs.<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>   I feel so much better with the weight loss (I’m not big, just under 6ft medium build currently 11st 10) that I’m carrying on with this as a bit of a lifestyle choice.  Because of the calorie deficit and the allowance of 100g carbs the odd bacon roll or beer treat doesn’t kill me.</span>

    My coach wants me to increase carbs to support my training as it moves higher intensity over the next few months but I’ve told him I want to walk the tightrope of failure by minimise pre workout carbs to only whats needed – the above weight loss I had originally put on in 2018/19 as I was encouraged to max my carbs.

    Anyway, TDLR – it works for some not others and you can use a Demi-keto / exercise based approach with less of the side effects.

    paton
    Free Member

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    tjagain
    Full Member

    You cannot do ” a bit of keto”

    You are either ketogenic or not. Most folk “doing keto”I guess are not ketogenic but are actually just eating a low carb high fat diet

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Yes you can TJ.   Fasted  / zero glycogen riding for example is promoting fat use as fuel with zero glycogen to use after your body has been forced ketogenic.  The very definition of Ketosis is: “…involves the body producing ketone bodies out of fat, and using them for energy instead of carbs…”   and “…occurs when there is limited access to glucose (blood sugar), which is the preferred fuel source for many cells in the body…”

    Then a week later build up your glycogen stores and thats going to be your primary fuel source for harder efforts.   Ketogenic diets are basically forcing your body to use fat as a primary fuel source thus depleting the excess aka losing weight in the short term.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Correct in as far as it goes but once you have taken onboard some carbs then you are no longer in ketosis. Ketosis is a metabolic state brought about by absence of carbs.

    Its binary – you are either in ketosis or you are not.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Yes, but you can do “a bit of Keto” to promote Ketogenic adaption then revert – but the duration is important as you need time to adapt.  In mine and the other posters example of endurance athletes we’ve used Keto to promote adaptation to force our bodies to promote the use of fat as fuel.  We achieve that, then added prioritised carbs on race day boosts performance by adding a “surprise” fuel source.

    it’s like a hybrid car – we’ve spent 3 months chugging around on a 1.2L ICE yet with a flat battery in the hybrid system.  On race day that battery is charged so we get use of both the ICE and the Electric at the same time when out bodies are expecting the 1.2 only e.g. a performance boost.  Have a look at the graph at minute 12 of the above video.

    longdog
    Free Member

    Check out sami inkinen’s article on his multistage mtb race. Stayed in ketosis (testing) despite strategic carb intake and he’s no slouch on the bike.

    Carbs taken during exercise follow a different energy pathway and are used directly. Very different to the way Carbs are used when sedentary.

    For me I don’t worry about ketosis but try to eat low carb for other health benefits of limiting Carbs. When I’m on a long/hard ride I eat what ever I feel like. Under 1-2 hours I’ll just have an electrolyte drink.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    we’ve used Keto to promote adaptation to force our bodies to promote the use of fat as fuel.

    Others may have but if this is the same diet you posted an example of the other day.

    Your not. Your just following restricted carbs. It might as well be restricted calorie.

    You have taken a principal removed the bits that you like used them and then credited them with success.

    retro83
    Free Member

    tjagain

    You are either ketogenic or not. Most folk “doing keto”I guess are not ketogenic but are actually just eating a low carb high fat diet

    I don’t think that’s entirely true tbh.. After 2 days on low carb diet I’m in light ketosis as measured by the piss sticks. 3 days and it’s dark purple on the sticks. I don’t see why other people would be any different.

    Also I think people saying it’s low calorie so to just do that instead are missing the point.
    On extended low calorie diets i feel like absolute arse, hungry and grumpy all the time. It gets to a point where food and hunger just dominates your being. Keto is the opposite. I feel more energetic and sharper in fact than on regular food.

    The problem with keto is that there are precious few of the shelf options, so you need to be organised.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Retro83 has summarised most of my potential response to trial rat.  I know by my prior training schedule performances on the bike – measured by watts, 20mins and 1hr tests that my power and ability had improved.  This isn’t just about calorie restricted weight loss, this for me at least, is about having a wider base amount of fuel to support my riding.

    I couldn’t do 3hrs fasted at 190w without – albeit minimal – carb support in November.  Yet now I’m doing that at 210w on water & electolytes.

    My Gorrick results shocked me TBH, in that I knocked off 3 mins of my fastest lap in my last lap chasing the time before the end when I thought that after 3.5hrs I was pretty cooked.  I’ve never been able to put that kind of effort at the end of a 4h before.

    I’m not sure what your alluding to Trail Rat because I haven’t stated I’m 100% Keto, but am am using the principles to promote fat use as fuel during exercise and I’m weight down/power and endurance up.  That’s a win win in my book.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Retro – what is happening there is waste products are building up in your body!

    rone
    Full Member

    The point about the keto to all the ‘it’s just calorie restricted’ crowd – is that – yes it is but it’s so much more too.

    It doesn’t matter that you call it that. So what. It controls hunger, gets you away from processed sugars, needs less planning, saves lots of time, reduces inflammation issues, sorts out some liver problems, better sleep. The list is endless. In my case got rid of all my stomach issues too.

    And it loses weight.

    It’s as relevant as any diet if it suits you.

    What if you don’t stick to it?

    What if you don’t stick to anything?

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    So what your saying is – as I alluded to at the end of my post is that your experiance following a non keto diet has improved your performance.

    And I’m not suggesting that keto followers should follow a calorie restricted diet.

    I’m suggesting that pseudo followers who are not keto and are picking and choosing which bits to follow would be as well doing calorie restriction

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Rone – the point many of us are making is most people doing ” keto” are not.
    Its also incredibly unhealthy

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    I’m suggesting that pseudo followers who are not keto and are picking and choosing which bits to follow would be as well doing calorie restriction

    IMO and for me at least you’re wrong there.   FWIW, I followed a 2000 cal high carb diet from October 2018 to September 2019, felt bad, raced poorly, gained those 12lbs and my ftp & endurance dropped.   So currently I’m 200 cals more per day and way outperforming a carb laden yet lower calorie experience in the year prior – on a Turbo so weight isn’t a factor in my quoted gains hence not using w/kg.

    Anyway, I’m not here to argue about whether people think I’m in Ketosis or not – what’s your opinion of whether Sami Inkinen from the article above is in Ketosis?, I’m happy with my diet and improvements and I’m sticking with it.

    paton
    Free Member

    lambchop
    Free Member

    Join the Facebook Keto UK Community. It is a fantastic resource. They also have the best macros calculator there is.

    I’ve lost 2 stone since September and I feel great. Loads more energy. While those around are getting cold after cold I’ve been fit as a fiddle.

    lambchop
    Free Member

    Just been reading some of the misinformation from people who clearly haven’t got a clue what keto is. Firstly it’s not a calorie restricted way of eating. It’s a carb and sugar restricted way of eating. Basically 20 grams or less of carbs per day. Your energy comes mainly from healthy natural fats, avocado, coconut oil, olive oil, animal fats etc for me that’s about about 170 grams of fat per day and then half that amount of protein. Drink loads of water, watch your electrolytes so top up your sodium and eat foods with potassium and magnesium.

    I got into ketosis within a week. You’ll pee like a racehorse for a few days. It takes several weeks to become fat adapted as your body heals and starts using ketones from your liver as energy. You’ll feel more awake and sharper. Watch your alcohol intake. You can booze it but stick to spirits, whisky, vodka etc as they are 0 carb. Be warned that drinking booze while not kicking you out of ketosis will stall it as your liver will prioritize dealing with the alcohol over producing ketones.

    Anyway, good luck with it. It does work, is perfectly healthy and youll feel great.

    gobuchul
    Free Member

    It’s amazing how much this divides opinion.

    It works very well for me, beer is my failing. If I cut out beer completely the weight drops off me. I eat a lot of meat and vegetables. I struggle to eat bread at all now, just upsets my stomach and makes me feel bloated.

    Read “Wheat Belly”. It also explains how political decisions led to the huge quantities of wheat and corn sugar that are now consumed by the fattest people on the planet in the USA.

    Retro – what is happening there is waste products are building up in your body!

    What waste products are these TJ? How are they building up in your body if they are detected in your pee?

    paton
    Free Member

    paton
    Free Member

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Oh look – youtube links as “evidence”

    There is a very good reason why its not a recommended diet by those that know such as trained medical professionals. It is used in medicine sometimes – and only under close medical supervision because it is so dangerous – its unhealthy and dangerous.

    The misinformation on here comes from those advocating it – most of whom are not in ketosis anyway ( tho some clearly are at huge risk to their health)

    Its weight loss effects come from 2 things and only two things. You are eating less calories and you loose loads of water.

    gobuchul
    Free Member

    Its weight loss effects come from 2 things and only two things. You are eating less calories and you loose loads of water.

    “Loose loads of water”? Or the inflammation caused my too much carb is reduced?

    “Eating less calories”? Is that because it’s easy to do so as you don’t have anywhere near the hunger when you go low carb?

    Can you explain about the waste product build up?

    robbo1234biking
    Full Member

    @kryton57 what carbs were you using before? Not trying to join in the argument but I am following the endurance diet by Matt Fitzgerald now for a couple of weeks so wondered what you were doing?

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    TJ, can you explain to me how with the same cycling based calorie expenditure, my low carb diet of higher calories has allowed me to lose weight vs a high carb diet with less calories?

    FWIW I haven’t changed my fluids, just my carbs/protien ratio.

    lambchop
    Free Member

    Tjagain. You are so wrong.

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    There is a very good reason why its not a recommended diet by those that know such as trained medical professionals.

    Isn’t what medical professionals recommend basically the ‘Eat less, move more’ method and eat healthier food?

    And isn’t it almost 90% certain that this method isn’t going to work?

    The fact is that trained medical professionals have been recommending a method that they can be fairly sure isn’t going to work for decades. The reason they get away with it is because when it doesn’t work they can blame the patient’s moral failings rather than their method.

    If you can explain the dangers of a keto diet and provide evidence then please do so.

    It would be good to compare how many people have died on a keto diet vs how many have died of heart attacks doing ‘Eat less, move more’.

    longdog
    Free Member

    Public Health Collaboration; UK doctors and health professionals who promote a low carb high fat and keto diet for better health and the prevention and management of diabetes, heart disease and other issues.

    Home

    No comments on the previous Sami Inkinen link?

    wesleyspencer9
    Free Member

    Does anyone want a dietitians opinion…..4 year degree, registered with the health professions council and 14 years of NHS experience??

    yourguitarhero
    Free Member

    Why is eat less, move more guaranteed to fail in 90% of people?
    Because they can’t stick to it? And yet, people can stick to keto?
    Probably because changing habits are hard. But keto requires you to change you habits significantly to do it, then change again when you come off of it else all the weight goes back on. And that yo-yo stuff is how you end up **** with your relationship with food and end up moving into eating disorder territory.

    There are lots of possible side effects to going keto: https://www.health.com/weight-loss/keto-diet-side-effects

    I can see Kryton’s point about improvement for endurance athletes, but that is quite a specialist case and the OP is asking about it for general weight loss. As the article says, it may be mis-attribution of the benefits of weight loss on cycling performance to the keto diet.

    What bad side effects of eating less and moving more are there?

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Does anyone want a dietitians opinion…..4 year degree, registered with the health professions council and 14 years of NHS experience??

    yes please!  In the interest of honesty my advice & plan is from Liverpool’s John Moore Uni and is sport nutrition based.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    Keto is incredibly bad for you.

    But you know that.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    wesleyspencer9

    Yes please

    the rest of you. How about an article from a proper peer reviewed paper or from the BMJ? You know – something that is rigorous and valid

    wesleyspencer9
    Free Member

    I’ll send more in depth info later but I’m also an anti doping officer. This means I get to sit about with elite athletes making idle chit chat waiting for them to pee.

    I don’t know a single individual or team who uses keto.

    However there’s lots of curiosity about vegan diets!!

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    @robbo1234biking no problem it was as follows:

    Light week average = 3g/kg = 240g (4 hours training)

    Moderate week average 5g/kg = 400g (6-8 hours training)

    High week average 8-10g/kg = 624g (8-12 hours training)

    Race Week – 8 – 10g/kg = 624g

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    I don’t know a single individual or team who uses keto.

    And you are correct.   They might use “low carb” though.  YGH makes an appropriate comment that the OP was asking about weight loss not Sports nutrition and we moved the conversation.

    lambchop
    Free Member

    Check out the Keto UK Community page on Facebook. 55k members. The before and after pictures are amazing. Also there are many examples of people beating diseases such as diabetes and even cancer through this way of eating.

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 287 total)

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