Do explain what educational benefit will be derived by going to Tuscany during term time, and how this outweighs the education that will be missed through your kids’ absence.

For the avoidance of doubt: sun-dried tomatoes are widely available in UK supermarkets.

Well your really not in position to determine this are you. Let me put it like this. A week spent visiting Tuscan architecture, learning the language and interacting with foreign culture against a few days watching videos and playing board games whilst the teachers and school wind down for end of term.
We can all use a bit of pejorative spin you know!

Do explain what educational benefit will be derived by going to Tuscany during term time, and how this outweighs the education that will be missed through your kids’ absence.
For the avoidance of doubt: sun-dried tomatoes are widely available in UK supermarkets.

I seriously would live to see your definition of education. All academic perhaps? All tied to the national curriculum maybe…?

Maybe you need to widen your perspective and be less obtuse.

If this is the level of respect that you show to your child’s school and teachers then I have no doubt that that attitude will rub off on your kid(s) and they won’t give two shits about school either. Kids who don’t care about school won’t achieve nearly as well as those who are engaged and care about it. This is wider than school holidays

Pretty much spot on IMO. Funnily enough, parents are the most important factor in how a child achieves at school. Poor parental attitudes to the importance of education (taking them out for cheaper holidays being a prime example) will rub off fairly quickly on their kid’s performance.

If the package to Gstaad, Tuscany or Florida is too expensive, do something/go somewhere else. Our holidays never cost that much, tend to be fairly cool and are always during my sons holiday times.

A week spent visiting Tuscan architecture, learning the language and interacting with foreign culture against a few days watching videos and playing board games whilst the teachers and school wind down for end of term.

I look forward to your lesson plan.

I’ll prepare it at the weekend 😉

I seriously would live to see your definition of education. All academic perhaps? All tied to the national curriculum maybe…?

It’s up to you to provide a definition, as you’re the one trying to make a justification. Or is it just possible that you want to spend a week sipping prosecco in a Tuscan villa, while the kids are bored out of their minds?

Poor parental attitudes to the importance of education (taking them out for cheaper holidays being a prime example) will rub off fairly quickly on their kid’s performance.

Quite. I pity the poor sod who has to deal with kids weighed down by an over-developed sense of entitlement. Frankly, they deserve a long holiday.

parents are the most important factor in how a child achieves at school. Poor parental attitudes to the importance of education (taking them out for cheaper holidays being a prime example) will rub off fairly quickly on their kid’s performance.

But you are conflating two things. “Taking them out for cheaper holidays” and “poor parental attitudes” dont necessarily go hand in hand. I dont take my children out of school but of the people I know who do they are some of the most committed parents with their children’s well being foremost.
I think its a bit more subtle than that and teachers dont like the stereotypes of short hours, long holidays etc but are quite happy to lambast parents who feel that a week out of term time is more than outweighed by the other 360?? days commitment by them to their child’s education.
So you are happy to generalise when it suits you

colp – Member
My wife is a teacher in one local authority, my son goes to school in a different local authority. The two regularly have different holiday weeks for the half-term breaks etc. So either we pay the fine or the wife has to do a sicky under the new rules.
or perhaps arrange alternative child care like the rest of the folk whose annual leave is not equal to the number of school holidays.

I think you missed the point. My wife is forced to take different holidays to the ones my son is forced to take. Most people have the option to take the same holidays as their children.
Obviously it’s not all of the time but a particular instance is that we have been planning for years to go on a 2 week family holiday to Thailand. It was supposed to be Easter 2014, the term times came out and they have different Easter breaks. So now the family holiday is off.
I know it’s not the end of the world but it does highlight that the new ruling can cause problems in some circumstances.

It’s up to you to provide a definition, as you’re the one trying to make a justification. Or is it just possible that you want to spend a week sipping prosecco in a Tuscan villa, while the kids are bored out of their minds?

Well its not actually me doing it 🙄 however our posts have crossed and you will see above that you cant claim offense when people make generalisations about teachers then make generalisations about them, can you ? You are not n a position to determine what people do on their holiday and its value and how it fits in with rigid educational guidelines.

Poor parental attitudes to the importance of education (taking them out for cheaper holidays being a prime example) will rub off fairly quickly on their kid’s performance.

Quite. I pity the poor sod who has to deal with kids weighed down by an over-developed sense of entitlement. Frankly, they deserve a long holiday.

Well this is just more sanctimonious sneering isnt it. Almost smacks of jealousy ?

You are not n a position to determine what people do on their holiday and its value and how it fits in with rigid educational guidelines.

No, the school is. And they’ve already decided.

Well this is just more sanctimonious sneering isnt it. Almost smacks of jealousy ?

I’m not constrained by term time. But when I am, I won’t be bleating about it on here.

Well its not actually me doing it

I wasn’t replying to you. Perhaps your comprehension skills would be better if you hadn’t taken so many holidays during term. 😉

Some people seem to be taking this as a rant against teachers – it really isn’t.

Many parents have issues with our current head teacher – we don’t seek them out in fact no parent at the school would know we have issues with the heads management of the school. This is from people raising the subject with us. Not new, not an exclusive problem and also not a school where just middle class people who holiday in Tuscany send their children and protest to much. It’s a school in a suburb of Birmingham – not a ‘middle class’ suburb like Sutton Coldfield either…

Seriously several teachers are great in the school and several other great ones have left. We appreciate they work hard, don’t mind them taking industrial action regarding terms and conditions and don’t expect them to train during their downtime.

I just don’t think it’s appropriate to seek permission to take the children out for two weeks or be lectured that it is wrong or be forbidden. I don’t think this is something to be legislated on or within the power of the school. As an adult I am not prepared to be “bollocked” or carpeted for my parenting decisions. I don’t tolerate this treatment at work, I won’t tolerate it socially and I won’t tolerate it from my child’s school either. My strong response in my original post on this thread responded to someone saying a parent had been “bollocked” in a recent previous post on the same thread.

If you are happy to spoken to with little respect that is fine, but I won’t have it happen. If the head decides to take issue with my taking of children out – I will be happy to let her know in detail the issues we have with her style, approach and ethos. This is what I meant by a frank exchange of views in my first post on this thread.

And just so people can feel a slight sense of relief – this year we didn’t go to Tuscany. We went to the south of France and returned via the Alps. We learnt a lot about marine life and the marine ecosystem. Lots of rock pools to explore etc… Learnt some more French and about geography in terms of location and physical processes like glaciation.

I think you missed the point. My wife is forced to take different holidays to the ones my son is forced to take. Most people have the option to take the same holidays as their children.
Obviously it’s not all of the time but a particular instance is that we have been planning for years to go on a 2 week family holiday to Thailand. It was supposed to be Easter 2014, the term times came out and they have different Easter breaks. So now the family holiday is off.
I know it’s not the end of the world but it does highlight that the new ruling can cause problems in some circumstances.

Most folk who aren’t teachers don’t have as many days holidays as teachers, so there will never be a 100% overlap and so child care will always be needed whilst they are at school. We partly achieve this by staggering some of our holidays – I take a week of leave when my wife is at work and vice versa during the summer.

I would be surprised if your wife and kids holidays didn’t overlap for at least 6 weeks a year – which is equal to an average holiday entitlement for someone not in education.

Could we please have a definitive list of other rules, laws and regulations that its ok to break because we don’t agree with them.

Just so as I know.

Lots of rock pools to explore etc…

If only we lived in a country where no-one was more than 70 miles from the coast.

ransos – Member
I seriously would live to see your definition of education. All academic perhaps? All tied to the national curriculum maybe…?
It’s up to you to provide a definition, as you’re the one trying to make a justification. Or is it just possible that you want to spend a week sipping prosecco in a Tuscan villa, while the kids are bored out of their minds?

Ransos. We don’t have villa holidays, don’t drink and out children are never bored apart from when travelling. They don’t allow it! We spend pretty much all our time with them. We don’t laze by a pool or sunbathe on a beach – we do stuff with them. That is why we are on holiday with them. We think out children are great and like spending time with them.

Actually I have said several times what we do educationally – our definition is there to be read on our earlier posts.

Ransos. We don’t have villa holidays, don’t drink and out children are never bored apart from when travelling. They don’t allow it! We spend pretty much all our time with them. We don’t laze by a pool or sunbathe on a beach – we do stuff with them. That is why we are on holiday with them. We think out children are great and like spending time with them.

Actually I have said several times what we do – our definition is there to be read on our earlier posts.

Good for you. Could you explain why this can’t be achieved by taking your holidays out of term time?

tlr – Member
Could we please have a definitive list of other rules, laws and regulations that its ok to break because we don’t agree with them.
Just so as I know.

Can you give me a list of those I’m not allowed to challenge or dislike – especially newly implemented ones. Oh actually don’t worry – I’ve found them. They were right next to Mein Kampf on the local library shelf…

Good for you. Could you explain why this can’t be achieved by taking your holidays out of term time?

We have gone through this already to the point if nausea… Do you not have children to teach?

We have gone through this already to the point if nausea… Do you not have children to teach?

I’m just curious as to why you found it necessary to travel to the south of France to find a rock pool.

We have taken our children out of education twice in term time – this year and last year. To assure the supposed class warriors on here as well – we have only been to Tuscany once ever…

Good for you. Could you explain why this can’t be achieved by taking your holidays out of term time?

You are right there really is a “comprehension” problem 🙄

Oh and theirs more!

I’m just curious as to why you found it necessary to travel to the south of France to find a rock pool.

Nice and warm. Different culture, different climate.

They were right next to Mein Kampf on the local library shelf…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Nice and warm. Different culture, different climate.

Well, that’s me sold. Definitely worth the kids missing school for some warmer weather and an abundance of olive oil.

Oh and theirs more!

It’s “there’s”.

What was I saying about missing class?

There is a problem with comprehension here. So…

– Education does not simply equal school

– Respect is a two-way street

– Legislation against holidays is a bit much really

Ransos – you should try it. None of those pesky teachers around either 🙂

What was I saying about missing class?

Well as I was saying, I didnt miss any classes 🙄

I think I just had poor teachers

– Education does not simply equal school

No-one is arguing otherwise. But you have yet to explain why the educational benefit of visiting a French rock pool outweighs the benefit of your kids attending class.

– Respect is a two-way street

Indeed. Some could do with showing some more to teachers.

– Legislation against holidays is a bit much really

No-one is stopping you going on holiday. They are asking you to follow some rules that nearly everyone else manages to follow, and you signed up for when you got the state to educate your kids.

No-one is arguing otherwise. But you have yet to explain why the educational benefit of visiting a French rock pool outweighs the benefit of your kids attending class.

You’d need some pretty thick kids for a couple of weeks out of school to make any odds. If they’re that thick does it really matter?

You’d need some pretty thick kids for a couple of weeks out of school to make any odds. If they’re that thick does it really matter?

So you’re agreeing that there is no net educational benefit from being taken out of class? Ok.

Ransos you need to read what people are saying on this thread other than Surfer and I. Many people are equating school with education. I do show respect to the teachers in school – we have worked effectively with them to ensure our children’s education is as supported as it possibly can be. I didn’t sign up to restricted holidays when my children started school – there was no policy or legislation to that end. Legislation is aimed to restrict when we can take our children on holiday.

From your posts it so obvious that your definition of a rich educational experience is limited to school. There are many ways, times and places to learn.

So you’re agreeing that there is no net educational benefit from being taken out of class? Ok.

Am I?

But you have yet to explain why the educational benefit of visiting a French rock pool outweighs the benefit of your kids attending class watching videos and playing board games.

FIFY

They are asking you to follow some rules that nearly everyone else manages to follow, and you signed up for when you got the state to educate your kids.

Except thats not true is it? they have changed, a bit like pensions, which just goes to show you 😀

But you are conflating two things. “Taking them out for cheaper holidays” and “poor parental attitudes” dont necessarily go hand in hand. I dont take my children out of school but of the people I know who do they are some of the most committed parents with their children’s well being foremost.

Well maybe they just don’t get that by taking their kids out of school they are effectively telling them “school work is secondary to our ski trip/summer holiday”.

we have worked effectively with them to ensure our children’s education is as supported as it possibly can be

I always find that taking kids out of school is a highly effective strategy for improving educational performance 😕

you signed up for when you got the state to educate your kids.

Is this how you see it?

jamj1974 – I have a lot of sympathy for your approach, but how do expect the head / teachers to respond to your request/insistence to take them out of school in term time?

At risk of evoking Godwin’s Law (again), surely they are only following orders – personal issues with the head aside?

I didn’t sign up to restricted holidays when my children started school – there was no policy or legislation to that end. Legislation is aimed to restrict when we can take our children on holiday.

Holidays in term time weren’t allowed when I was at school, save for exceptional circumstances at the headteacher’s discretion. This is nothing new.

From your posts it so obvious that your definition of a rich educational experience is limited to school. There are many ways, times and places to learn.

Again, you have yet to show how taking your kids out of class gains them a “rich educational experience”. You’re going to have to do better than French rock pools.