Taking children out of school in term time

Home Forum Chat Forum Taking children out of school in term time

Viewing 45 posts - 46 through 90 (of 136 total)
  • Taking children out of school in term time
  • mogrim
    Member

    A friend has a couple of little boys and is going to take them travelling round the world for 12 months when they’re about 8-9yrs. I’ve not had the chance to ask him the legalities behind it. Definitely something I’d like to do myself, but maybe only for 3-6 months. Anyone had experience of this or know where one stands? Ta

    There’s no way I’d take my 9yr old out of school for a year to go travelling round the world. While they would undoubtedly learn something, they’d learn a lot more in a school – both academically and socially. If you want them to benefit from exposure to a foreign culture you’d really need to spend a year or two in the same location, which would let them learn a foreign language and actually start to like the local food, but I suspect your friend’s plan is more likely to be flitting about from India to Bali to Vietnam (or wherever)…

    Perhaps I’m being overly cynical, but this sounds more like your friend would like to travel the world, and is trying to find a way to justify it. Pretty irresponsible IMO – time to grow up and face the fact he’s a parent.

    bikebouy
    Member

    My Sis is a Headmistress and her Hubby is a Headmaster, her view & his is this..

    They don’t allow thier kids (4off) out of school during school terms because they can’t do they same πŸ˜‰

    mogrim
    Member

    Young children learn from playing too.
    Some of you seem to have forgotten this.
    Yes they go to school to get a grounding in the basics, but exploring the wider world (and that does not have to be abroad or cost loads of money) is as important so they have the chance to become a grounded indivdual who can make sense of the world and have an understanding of who they are is just as important.
    Life is a game-play it.

    Young children learn loads from playing at school, too. School isn’t just sitting in a classroom doing exercises in a book.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    and only in school for 6.25 hours a day, of which 1.5 hours a day is “play time” for small kids – and that’s not including stuff like forest school, art, PE etc. which is more or less structured play.

    Exactly.

    I wonder how many of the people who are taking their kids out of school in term time also have them in pre- and after-school childcare and in childcare during the school holidays as well?

    samuri
    Member

    People have kids in schools across different counties?

    You might if you live on a county boundary.

    For example, if you live on the Yorkshire/Lancashire boundary, you would send your intelligent kid to a Lancashire school and the dumb one to a Yorkshire school.

    andyl
    Member

    Increase my working time/load and I’ll want paying more.

    I think you are choosing to not even consider there is another way to do things here (don’t mean to be harsh or cause offense but it’s the way I read your replies). I am happy to be wrong but I think it all needs to be looked at properly to see if there is a better system.

    I am guessing you are a teacher then?

    The argument has always been that teachers ‘earn’ their long summer break by all the prep they do after school hours. My thinking is to try and reduce those kind of hours so the end result is spreading out the hours.

    Maybe it will cost more as more teachers, or particularly student teachers or teaching assistants that are not fully qualified teachers need to be recruited. I have never said that it wouldn’t cost more and quite frankly I am of of the opinion that spending money on education is never a waste of money and I would much rather it was spent there than just about anywhere else.

    There could be financial savings in other areas as a result – less people on job seekers, less money on child care, less disruption to working parents so less hours lost, less strikes etc etc.

    Likewise I am also not saying don’t give kids time off. They need it both for fun and to do other activities.

    IMO the whole system needs looking at to see if there is a better way. Maybe there wont be but at the moment the only resistance I see from the working adult population is from teachers who don’t want to lose their nice long holidays. That may sound harsh but that is how it looks from the outside.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    The argument has always been that teachers ‘earn’ their long summer break by all the prep they do after school hours. My thinking is to try and reduce those kind of hours so the end result is spreading out the hours.

    Are you proposing that they do less proper teaching then? Because that’s the only way I can see that happening.

    IMO the whole system needs looking at to see if there is a better way.

    Maybe, but the premise that kids need to be allowed to take holidays during term time is the wrong place to start. Are you sure you’re not Michael Gove?

    mogrim
    Member

    The argument has always been that teachers ‘earn’ their long summer break by all the prep they do after school hours. My thinking is to try and reduce those kind of hours so the end result is spreading out the hours.

    But your idea would surely do exactly the opposite – you’d need to tailor lessons to each individual kid, after all you’ve got no way of knowing which child’s done which lesson…

    I love all the lazy old “My kids learn more by two weeks in Tuscany than they will by two weeks in school” excuses.

    To proove this you would need demonstrate what level they were at before the holiday, what the holiday was designed to achieve, how its learning activities fitted in with the national curriculum and what level they were at when they returned home. That’s what teachers have to do every term. If not, Mr Gove won’t pay them.

    Also, why could they only have learned this by going on a holiday in term time? Are holidays outside term time somehow inferior in general educational experience?

    But people are right – there is no reason for one long summer holiday, and I think a lot of teachers would be happier with more, shorter terms.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    I think you are choosing to not even consider there is another way to do things here (don’t mean to be harsh or cause offense but it’s the way I read your replies).

    I try new things all the time.

    But, things generally need learning in sequence and certain activities need all the students to be at the same place at the same time. You seem to think we can get them started and then they’ll happily work through the middle of the topic on their own, before all coming together at the end for a nice neat end of topic conclusion. In reality, this just won’t work.

    If we do some thing practical, it needs to be fit into a scheme of work with theory before. Afterwards, we’ll discuss what we learned. We also need the equipment for the practicals to be available at the right time, which would be impossible to manage with 24 kids working at their own pace.

    I am happy to be wrong but I think it all needs to be looked at properly to see if there is a better system.

    New things are tried all the time – it’s why school is now very different to how it was in the past. What makes you think you’ve come up with a workable alternative off the top of your head?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    I love all the lazy old “My kids learn more by two weeks in Tuscany than they will by two weeks in school[b] somewhere poor people go[/b]” excuses.

    Having grown up with a mother who was a teacher and a dad who was a farmer holiday time was hard to fit in, we still did learned loads and hopefully came out of it as more well rounded individuals. I also reckon I only had about 10 days off school.

    Some of the skills your kids can learn if you choose to take them out of school and pretend they are ill is how to lie.
    It’s not a sun tan it’s jaundice
    I had a contagious disease and my folks had to take me to a villa somewhere
    They eat Pasta and Pizza in Italy and I’d never heard or eaten them before

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    But people are right – there is no reason for one long summer holiday, and I think a lot of teachers would be happier with more, shorter terms.

    Yep. We’ve just finished a ten week half-term and it nearly finished me.

    Although, that’ll probably make summer holidays even more expensive and avoiding this seems to be a priority in the way we design our education system?

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    Holidays from a teacher’s perspective:

    We’re taking our kids abroad for the first time in 2014, because we’ve never been able to afford it before.

    We can’t go in the summer, because we still can’t afford that. October, Christmas, February and Easter an no good, because I always have work to do in those holidays.

    So, we’re going in May half-term. We’ve been very limited in where we can go, because we’ve had to find flights that work around the exact holiday dates – no nipping out early on the Friday or starting late on the Monday back, or using flexitime or anything.

    Perhaps I’m being overly cynical, but this sounds more like your friend would like to travel the world, and is trying to find a way to justify it. Pretty irresponsible IMO – time to grow up and face the fact he’s a parent.

    Yeah, it’s a tricky one. I only know him and not his wife or kids, so can’t really gauge the big picture motives etc.

    The other friend I mentioned in my post is now a teacher and she’s always been keen on kids exploring different cultures, even through a year out, to get a more holistic perspective. She also stipulated this would have to include teaching them the core curriculum throughout. Personally I think that’s a fantastic way to “educate” one’s children. Don’t think I’d do it for a year though, maybe 3-6 months on perhaps 2 occasions.

    mogrim
    Member

    The other friend I mentioned in my post is now a teacher and she’s always been keen on kids exploring different cultures, even through a year out, to get a more holistic perspective. She also stipulated this would have to include teaching them the core curriculum throughout. Personally I think that’s a fantastic way to “educate” one’s children. Don’t think I’d do it for a year though, maybe 3-6 months on perhaps 2 occasions.

    I’d say a full year including schooling in a foreign culture would be great for many (most?) kids. There’s no way I’d take my kids out of school for 3-6 months, though.

    For example, if you live on the Yorkshire/Lancashire boundary, you would send your intelligent kid to a Lancashire school and the dumb one to a Yorkshire school.

    So they could both be at the same level come school leaving age?

    TooTall
    Member

    In the USA some schools are exploring the ways to get rid of the long summer break. It is one of the biggest problems as far as keeping lower ability and kids from poorer families engaged in education, so some are working to make it better. Good thing too – better than accepting how it always was.

    Don’t think I even went on a plane until I was 11 or so…

    I wasn’t on a plane until I joined a certain aircraft-orientated branch of the Armed Forces. I was at the controls and did the take off that very first time in one tho! πŸ˜€

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    dangerousbeans wrote:

    For example, if you live on the Yorkshire/Lancashire boundary, you would send your intelligent kid to a Lancashire school and the dumb one to a Yorkshire school.
    So they could both be at the same level come school leaving age?

    At least they would have their chips on opposite shoulders

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Don’t think I even went on a plane until I was 11 or so…

    21 here but making it up now

    There’s no way I’d take my kids out of school for 3-6 months, though.

    Why not 3-6 months?

    I don’t have kids but when I’m at a resort in term time and I see kids of school age with their parents, I just think “chav scum.”

    At least they would have their chips on opposite shoulders

    πŸ˜€

    j5kol
    Member

    Mi mam and dad tuk me owt ov skool efery yere in turm tyme and itz not dun mi any rong. Ive got a mint job at the timber yard nere us sweping up all da duzt.
    Karnt si wot da big ishu izzzz

    pondo
    Member

    It has to be said, it’s a bit of a f*** you to the teachers, too – they’re under immense pressure to help their students fulfil optimistic predictions, and taking them out of school for a week/two weeks/three to six months or a year is not going to help, no matter how much it helps develop them outside of the curriculum.

    jfletch
    Member

    long summer holidays just cause problems for families with both parents working and no support

    Something to consider before having kids perhaps?

    Long summer holidays do cause problems for families through. Kids are out of school for ~13 weeks a year (which contain 6 days of bank holiday). So how does a working family cover 13 x 5 – 6 = 59 days of looking after the kids with only 30 days of leave (if they are lucky)?

    I don’t think “don’t have kids” is a particulalry helpful answer to this. Particulalry in this modern age when the cost of living relative to wags is rising and people are encourced to have both parents work, both by the tax system and by society.

    It makes having kids only available to the very wealthy or the jobless who claim benefits and don’t work if you take that attitude.

    mudshark
    Member

    It must be only a minority that take their kids out of school; my parents did until I went to a prep school – so they were paying then :D. Any excuse for doing this is just an excuse…if a trip will be educational then they’ll benefit from it by having it in holiday term and get all the benefit from that lovely teaching too. Do parents that do this stop when their kids get to a certain age or is it OK until Uni time – if they make it πŸ˜‰

    mogrim
    Member

    Why not 3-6 months?

    I assume you’re not planning on putting them in a school during that period, but some kind of haphazard home schooling? (And it will be haphazard: you’re planning on travelling and seeing a foreign country, do it properly and you might as well stay at home…) 3-6 months should be just about enough to make them have to repeat the year when they finally get home, and they’ll be stuck in a class with kids a year younger.

    My sister’s a diplomat and spends 4 year blocks in different countries, her kids are learning loads about different cultures and different languages (they speak English, French and Italian fluently), but of course they’re in formal schooling with a stable home life (ignoring the moves every 4 years or so).

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    It makes having kids only available to the very wealthy or the jobless who claim benefits and don’t work if you take that attitude.

    Or, people who make changes to their lifestyles in response to having kids?

    pondo
    Member

    Long summer holidays do cause problems for families through. Kids are out of school for ~13 weeks a year (which contain 6 days of bank holiday).

    Cor, you’d think they’d tell you about that beforehand. πŸ˜›

    wrightyson
    Member

    Is this shit still going on! At least once a month we have this!
    Basics, If you have kids at school then you shouldn’t be taking them on holiday during term time, if you do it’s your choice, if little Johnny misses a special school trip or lesson etc then its your fault, if you get fined its your fault! Suck it all up and get on with it.
    As for the rest of you, enjoy the cheap holidays, but by having no kids you are missing out on a whole world of Lego making, biking, sports days and general proudness as they hopefully grow up into someone you can admire.
    And then… the cheap holidays start again!

    mark90
    Member

    The majority of people at mine and my wifes work have school age childern, and resouorces at both have been cut to such an extent that covering the work load is a stretch when everyone is in. This has led to much tighter restrictions on the number of people who can be off at any one time. The contention for leave during school holidays is such that not everyone who wants can have it. Looking like we might have to take leave during term time and hence take child out of school if we want any possibility of a family holiday 😐 Yeh I know first world problem πŸ™„

    Premier Icon DaveRambo
    Subscriber

    The simple answer to this is that it’s all down to the parents.

    Bad parents may not make the best decisions for their children and removing then from school is one single example. It may or may not be bad depending on the child, the length, time etc
    Rules like this are an overreaction to try and address the actions of a minority and IMO completely over the top.

    We’ve not taken our daughter out of school but I would have no problem doing so during the last week of any term, especially the last day where they do very little.

    If I were to do that I’d just phone up to say she was sick.

    bigyinn
    Member

    Already done below.
    POW!
    Feel free to read this whilst repeatedly punching yourself in the face, seething with moral indignation.

    Ecky-Thump
    Member

    There’s a strong risk that my daughter may come down with some terrible illness on the last day before Feb half term.
    Always sought school’s permission in the past and it was always granted. Won’t be asking this year.

    Are the schools legally able to enforce the fines?

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    Are the schools legally able to enforce the fines?

    Yes: http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/pupilsupport/behaviour/attendance/a00223868/regulations-amendments (though it’s not the school, it’s the local authority.)

    Ah thanks, I never realized that! However Β£60 is hardly a deterrent if you could save a few Β£hundred from your family holiday is it? If they made the fine Β£500 I bet most people would think twice…

    pondo
    Member

    I think just making them think twice is all they’re after. If your holiday is more important than your child’s education, you’re scoobied anyway.

    Always sought school’s permission in the past and it was always granted. Won’t be asking this year.

    Good life lesson for the daughter there, on circumnavigating inconveniant rules – nice. πŸ˜‰

    Houns
    Member

    I’ve just started dating a teacher, I thought about going away for half term as obviously she can’t get time off any other time

    Prices are ridiculous, I mean effing ridiculous. Plus as a ‘single man’ with no kids (thank god!) all the parents at work have booked all the holidays up. So even If I could afford to pay the price for a holiday that a week before or 2 weeks after is 4 times cheaper, I can’t get the time off anyway.

    So if I can’t get half term holidays off, and she can’t get term time off, when can we go away? Just once a year in summer?

    Reason 76253729 not to have children. And reason 1 not to date a teacher

    jfletch
    Member

    Or, people who make changes to their lifestyles in response to having kids?

    But people are also under presure to stay at work, it is the modern way. It is not an optioin for a lot of people to lose an income and society expects two parents to work. I’ll admit that the issue is clouded by selfish people wanting cheap holidays though.

    Society is changing but education is stuck in the past with practices based on historical religious holidays and a requirement for children to help bring in the harvest. These practices are now re-infoced by well off middle class teachers who can afford to pay a premium for holidays in the summer and who like their long holidays.

    The only teachers I see foregoing holidays due to the costs of school holidays are those who like skiing as although teachers are paid well enough to go on holiday in the summer they aren’t paid so well that Feb half term in the Alps is possible.

    samuri
    Member

    At least they would have their chips on opposite shoulders

    I dunno, you’d need to ask someone from Yorkshire or Lancashire.

    Society is changing but education is stuck in the past with practices based on historical religious holidays and a requirement for children to help bring in the harvest. These practices are now re-infoced by well off middle class teachers who can afford to pay a premium for holidays in the summer and who like their long holidays.
    The only teachers I see foregoing holidays due to the costs of school holidays are those who like skiing as although teachers are paid well enough to go on holiday in the summer they aren’t paid so well that Feb half term in the Alps is possible.

    2/10 Please try harder.

    Houns
    Member

    selfish people wanting cheap holidays though.

    Not selfish, and not wanting a cheap holiday. Just wanting a normal priced holiday without holiday companies bending you over and hoiking your thong aside

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    Not selfish, and not wanting a cheap holiday. Just wanting a normal priced holiday without holiday companies bending you over and hoiking your thong aside

    See my post above about the real cost of holidays. You want a discount one.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    Society is changing but education is stuck in the past with practices based on historical religious holidays and a requirement for children to help bring in the harvest.

    The long summer break was linked to the summer closure of the law courts, and the similar closure of Parliament. It had nothing to do with harvests, as we had a pretty urbanised population by the time formal schooling became widespread.

    These practices are now re-infoced by well off middle class teachers who can afford to pay a premium for holidays in the summer and who like their long holidays.

    As stated above, teachers wouldn’t be averse to changing around the holidays, including shortening the summer break. Switching to five, more equal terms is/has been trialled in some areas.

    Of course, a shorter summer break would make many of the problems people having organising holidays in the summer even worse…

Viewing 45 posts - 46 through 90 (of 136 total)

The topic ‘Taking children out of school in term time’ is closed to new replies.