Taking children out of school in term time

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  • Taking children out of school in term time
  • pondo
    Member

    The BBC are reporting that a ferociously-popular online petition is calling for a removal on the ban on taking children out of school in term time.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-24734692

    What do you lot reckon? I don’t have kids and, whilst Mrs Pondo is a teacher, I’m not, so it’s nowt to do with me, really. I only ask because my second cousin has been whining like a beeyatch on Facebook because they got fined for it – they asked the school if they could remove their kids to go to her mum’s 40th wedding anniversary bash abroad, the school said no, they went anyway and got fined. For my money, she’s brought that one on herself – what’s more, wanting to take a holiday during term time because they can’t afford to go on holiday out of term time seems a bit of a misplacement of values, surely if you can’t afford the holiday you want, you should take the holiday you can afford? And heck – how much would the parents complain if the teachers went on holiday on term time?

    Whaddya think? 🙂

    Why don’t local authority’s work together and just stagger school holidays across the country? Not going to work at Xmas but I imagine most families aren’t holidaying that much close to Xmas.

    duckman
    Member

    I think I will just nip out for some bisquits( c Vinny the Panda) any requests?

    Mint Viscounts ta

    pondo
    Member

    Why don’t local authority’s work together and just stagger school holidays across the country?

    Then it knackers things for families with kids at different schools.

    People have kids in schools across different counties?

    stumpy01
    Member

    I don’t have kids, but from my days at school i find it hard to believe that missing out on one week is going to make a massive amount of difference to a kid’s education throughout the course of a year. Particularly if the teachers are able to provide a small amount of work for the kid to do while away.

    It seems to be an accepted thing that the holiday company whack up the prices during the holidays by massive amounts. Seems a bit unfair to me, although they are businesses trying to make as much money as they can so it’s easy to understand why they do it.

    I guess it’s one of those things where if one person does it and there are no repercussions, then everyone will start doing it and then you probably would find that keeping all of the kids at the same level becomes very difficult.

    gonefishin
    Member

    When I see a sensible suggestion that will allow teachers to take time off during the term so that they can get access to cheaper holidays then I might be a bit more interested. Beyond that it’s little more that whining and stamping of feet.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    buzcuts here pleeese – we had loots of holidaz

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    ive got kids

    1 and 3 yrs though so its not an issue yet

    but term time is term time afaic
    just choose the holiday you can afford makes sense to me

    the only time my kids get to go on holiday is when ive got a biking event on, like the rough ride earlier this year 😉

    I guess it’s one of those things where if one person does it and there are no repercussions, then everyone will start doing it and then you probably would find that keeping all of the kids at the same level becomes very difficult.

    I think thats the issue really

    do free schools have the ability to set their own term times, if your not happy set up youre own school, its the Gove way

    xiphon
    Member

    Can’t afford to fly abroad during the holiday season? Boo-hoo.

    When I was young, all our family could afford (5 of us) was a 2 week camping holiday in France during the summer (Eurocamp – are they still going?).

    Don’t think I even went on a plane until I was 11 or so…

    gonefishin
    Member

    Particularly if the teachers are able to provide a small amount of work for the kid to do while away.

    How many pupils do you think teachers actually have, especially in secondary school? Do you really think it is sensible to create an even higher workload for teacher just so that someone else can have a cheaper holiday?

    It seems to be an accepted thing that the holiday company whack up the prices during the holidays by massive amounts. Seems a bit unfair to me, although they are businesses trying to make as much money as they can so it’s easy to understand why they do it.

    That’s just straightforward supply and demand and it’s nothing new.

    nbt
    Member

    if term time holiday prices + a fine is less than the cost of a holiday outside of term time, what’s the issue?

    Premier Icon BoardinBob
    Subscriber

    Don’t have kids. Problem solved. Horrid little beasts.

    wrightyson
    Member

    Both our kids return to school on Friday 5th September next year. We’ve booked that week off as a certain holiday company hasn’t picked up on the fact that it will almost certainly be an inset day and has halved the holiday price for that week.
    It is a pita I agree and if they are at school that day ill be phoning in saying they are ill or some other bull shit.
    However if I wish to, I will take my kids out if I see fit to but as the daughter is at “big school” now it will have to be for a very good reason.

    pondo
    Member

    Particularly if the teachers are able to provide a small amount of work for the kid to do while away.

    Why should they be obliged to increase their workload so parents can have cheaper holidays? Especially as that’s for parents who are less commited to their childrens education?

    If it’s for a two week all-inclusive in Tunisia, then a definite no-no. However, for example, if it’s two weeks touring in France, doing vineyards, especially the one in which you have shares, chateaux, and the odd stage of Le Tour, in ither words, an enriching experience, then, yes, that’s fine. Your head teacher, once he or she sees your itinerary shouldn’t have a problem with that kind of thing.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Particularly if the teachers are able to provide a small amount of work for the kid to do while away.

    🙂

    Maybe you need a private tutor for that

    wrightyson
    Member

    How many shares do you have darcy? Enough to get me some cheap red for Christmas? 😉

    stumpy01
    Member

    gonefishin – Member
    How many pupils do you think teachers actually have, especially in secondary school? Do you really think it is sensible to create an even higher workload for teacher just so that someone else can have a cheaper holiday?

    At my school it was about 30 pupils per class. And that was a fair few yrs ago.
    I didn’t say it was what they should do. It was a suggestion; perhaps not even a good one.
    If it’s only one kid taking the holiday, then it’s not like the teacher has to provide extra work for the whole class.

    gonefishin – Member

    That’s just straightforward supply and demand and it’s nothing new.

    Really? Thanks for clearing that up. I hadn’t worked it out for myself….
    Still doesn’t seem very fair though. Particularly when it is part of the cause for parents wanting to take their little darlings away during term time.

    To be honest, the status quo suits me fine.
    The last thing I want when on holiday is a load of screaming kids marauding around the place and parents who think that because they are ‘on holiday’ they have no responsibility to look after them.
    It also means I can wait until the school holidays are over and get nice cheap holidays away.

    Took mine out for a week end of september, aged 5 and 7.
    They are both doing well in school and therefore we have no problem in them missing lessons or saving ourselves a few hundred quid for going out of holiday time.
    Learnt more on our holiday than they would have in school; language skills, spanish, and met a german they played with. Culture, food and general experience. Plus their swimming came on massively as they were in the pool everyday.
    We did some research and spoke to local Educational Welfare Officer and she said you can have a week off (5 days)in a 12 month period unauthorised, after that you might get a fine depending on the headteacher. The headteacher could decide not to pursue if they think the holiday could be seen as being educational, our head is draconian and sticks to the rules!! We got a snotty letter, one each to my wife and me?? from education, which we laughed at and threw in the bin.
    Just another government rule to keep us all in line, no doubt “call me dave” and his cohorts have shares in airlines and holiday companys.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    At my school it was about 30 pupils per class

    So at secondary school it’s 30 per class x lots of classes

    Even if it is 30 then why should they do either unpaid overtime or put other kids at a disadvantage.

    It’s not like it was a big shock that school holidays are a peak time.
    Live within your means, if that means not going abroad then thats what it means.

    Klunk
    Member

    so people with school aged kids want to make holidays more expensive for the rest of us ?

    gonefishin
    Member

    If it’s only one kid taking the holiday, then it’s not like the teacher has to provide extra work for the whole class.

    Why would it only be one kid? Why wouldn’t it be all of them? If you accept that it need to be done for one kid then why not all of them? In any case creating work specifically for one pupil creates a dissproportionate amount of work. There are some circumstances where a teacher might go above and beyond and prepare work and there are some good reasons why (e.g. illness) but a cheap holiday certainly isn’t one of them.

    Really? Thanks for clearing that up. I hadn’t worked it out for myself….
    Still doesn’t seem very fair though.

    Well here’s another statement of the obvious, no-one ever said life was going to be fair.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    I have a career-worth of more expensive holidays to pay for.

    Don’t have kids. Problem solved. Horrid little beasts.

    BoardinBob for President, I say!

    natrix
    Member

    Why don’t local authority’s work together and just stagger school holidays across the country?

    This is what they do in France and it seems to work well.

    andyl
    Member

    I think there needs to be a complete shakeup in the education system.

    This is going to be very unpopular for kids but long summer holidays just cause problems for families with both parents working and no support (eg grandparents). It is a completely out of date system that causes lots of stress and problems.

    Off the top of my head I would suggest something like the following:

    Mandatory school attendance periods for project work, exams, start of modules, end of modules etc.

    Flexible time were the child is mid module and working through set work at their own pace, with checkpoints of course to ensure they are keeping up and not struggling. Parents can book holidays during this period within reason (ie no month long holidays).

    Mandatory time off – Christmas, Easter, short summer break so the school can be closed for maintenance etc. The latter could be staggered between areas of the country.

    The end result may well be longer total school time but I dont see this as a bad thing. Schedule in much more alternative curriculum activities, more relaxed learning, more help classes, revision classes etc and surely the end result should be a better education and actually less stress for teachers and students if done properly.

    …typifies the modern, “Me, myself, I” culture that we live in.

    pondo
    Member

    Learnt more on our holiday than they would have in school

    That’s the thing, how do you know that, unless you’re an education professional? In this outrageously grades-driven environment we find ourselves in, your kids coming back fluent in Spanish is nack-all use to the week of reading, riting and rythmatic they’ll be examined on at the end of the year.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    long summer holidays just cause problems for families with both parents working and no support

    Something to consider before having kids perhaps?

    Mandatory school attendance periods for project work, exams, start of modules, end of modules etc.

    Flexible time were the child is mid module and working through set work at their own pace, with checkpoints of course to ensure they are keeping up and not struggling. Parents can book holidays during this period within reason (ie no month long holidays).

    What if different subjects and schools have different topic start and end times? The requirements for primary, secondary and tertiary institutions are completely different.

    Practical subjects would be a nightmare to coordinate – all thirty kids doing different science practicals at one?

    Mandatory time off – Christmas, Easter, short summer break so the school can be closed for maintenance etc. The latter could be staggered between areas of the country.

    The long summer is an out-of-date system, but taking a holiday to coincide with when the angel of death spared the Jews but killed the Egyptian babies is ok?

    The end result may well be longer total school time but I dont see this as a bad thing. Schedule in much more alternative curriculum activities, more relaxed learning, more help classes, revision classes etc and surely the end result should be a better education and actually less stress for teachers and students if done properly.

    Higher taxes to cover the cost of increasing teachers’ pay for working more days?

    superfli
    Member

    My lad was forced to take a day out of school the other week. Teachers strike they called it. I didnt fine the gov or union though….

    Not against taking kids out in term time, as long as its not for long. Not needed too, or any plans on taking my boy out of school.

    A friend has a couple of little boys and is going to take them travelling round the world for 12 months when they’re about 8-9yrs. I’ve not had the chance to ask him the legalities behind it. Definitely something I’d like to do myself, but maybe only for 3-6 months. Anyone had experience of this or know where one stands? Ta

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    My lad was forced to take a day out of school the other week. Teachers strike they called it. I didnt fine the gov or union though….

    Because you can’t.

    It was a legally called strike action. Taking your child out of school during term-time is illegal.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    A friend has a couple of little boys and is going to take them travelling round the world for 12 months when they’re about 8-9yrs. I’ve not had the chance to ask him the legalities behind it. Definitely something I’d like to do myself, but maybe only for 3-6 months. Anyone had experience of this or know where one stands? Ta

    You’re required to provide your child with an education – this doesn’t have to be at school, hence the ability to home-school.

    On a practical note: I’d find out what they’d be covering in school in the core subjects (maths and English) and making sure they were up to speed on that before they go back to school, so they’re not behind.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    andyl – Member
    I think there needs to be a complete shakeup in the education system.

    You are Michael Gove! And I claim my personally signed copy of the St Johns Bible 😀

    peterfile
    Member

    Can’t afford to fly abroad during the holiday season? Boo-hoo.

    When I was young, all our family could afford (5 of us) was a 2 week camping holiday in France during the summer (Eurocamp – are they still going?).

    Don’t think I even went on a plane until I was 11 or so…

    bwahahahah!

    boo hoo! poor you and your summer holidays in France, what a terrible childhood you must have had 🙁

    You’re required to provide your child with an education – this doesn’t have to be at school, hence the ability to home-school.

    On a practical note: I’d find out what they’d be covering in school in the core subjects (maths and English) and making sure they were up to speed on that before they go back to school, so they’re not behind.

    That’s what another friend said years ago but I didn’t know if was ever wholly feasible and accepted. If that’s still the case then I might well be up for that. Can see it being tricky though if you’re trying to keep the little blighter(s) on a sound academic grounding while you and they just want to go and explore/play etc. Cheers

    andyl
    Member

    Something to consider before having kids perhaps?

    No. The system needs changing to keep up with an evolving world.

    What if different subjects and schools have different topic start and end times? The requirements for primary, secondary and tertiary institutions are completely different.

    Practical subjects would be a nightmare to coordinate – all thirty kids doing different science practicals at one?

    They manage to fit them in around the current long summer holidays so I am sure this is doable.

    You can still stagger practicals.

    I think you are clutching at straws here.

    The long summer is an out-of-date system, but taking a holiday to coincide with when the angel of death spared the Jews but killed the Egyptian babies is ok?

    Completely different things. A long summer break is different to a shared festive or other break when a lot of companies will be closed anyway giving staff time off. I’m sure you don’t mind taking Christmas off?

    Higher taxes to cover the cost of increasing teachers’ pay for working more days?

    A lot of teachers get paid plenty. I was waiting for someone to bring the ‘teachers pay’ issue into it but there would be plenty of people who are doing jobs of similar importance and workload and get paid much less. Did you miss my suggestion of trying to even out the workload/stress to actually make it nicer for teachers? It is the stress aspect in my opinion which triggers a lot of the problem. I have absolutely no doubt that a good teacher is worth every penny both for what they do and what they put up with but the way it all works adds to the stress of the job. But to counter that I am sure some teachers take the pi$$, same as people in other jobs.

    Don’t forget the financial impact of summer holidays on parents and on providing summer groups etc.

    As i said, the whole system needs to be completely overhauled to take account of modern living.

    A finger needs pointing at the holiday companies who take advantage of the summer holidays and hike up prices. Yes it is business and they are there to make money but there is a moral question to it all as they are preying on families who have little choice otherwise. But unfortunately that is one of the many downsides of capitalism and money grabbing culture.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    I think you are clutching at straws here.

    I think you’re making suggestions without understanding the practical implications.

    I was waiting for someone to bring the ‘teachers pay’ issue into it but there would be plenty of people who are doing jobs of similar importance and workload and get paid much less.

    Increase my working time/load and I’ll want paying more.

    Did you miss my suggestion of trying to even out the workload/stress to actually make it nicer for teachers?

    Your proposals won’t do this.

    But to counter that I am sure some teachers take the pi$$, same as people in other jobs.

    There’s a 50% drop out rate for NQTs. That does a pretty good job of weeding out the piss takers.

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