Taking a break (flounce alert!)

Well, after a very unsatisfactory answer to my censorship question, and it becoming apparent that rather than allow us to discuss the ongoing genocide in Gaza the powers that be would rather silence all debate, I’m off.

It’s a shame, I love this place, but I can’t add my name or my money to an organisation (there’s a magazine?) that allows atrocities to take place while imposing a gag on those who might question them.

I wonder who took this decision? The staff all seem like pretty cool people. Anyway, I’m rambling, good bye.

Alex Palace Fan 🙁

Not that this thread will last, but the idea of  STW ‘allowing atrocities to take place’ has to go into the hall of fame!

Bye bye! Take your ball with you.

I wonder who took this decision?

The behaviour of forum posters forced this decision.

Bloody hell mate, what makes you think a MTB forum is critical to the discourse on Gaza.

Have some empathy for the mods and staff eh.

Bye bye! Take your ball with you.

Name checks out.

The behaviour of forum posters forced this decision.

This.

Yes the censorship is a little strange but I hardly think the forum is “allowing “ the atrocities.

I dunno, the answer seemed pretty clear to me:

MOD – The threads always descend in to argument, then rule breaking, normally personal insults and racism, and when we try to moderate per the rules, we get abuse, and accusations of us of being on the ‘other’ side. We’ve tried to give you all a chance at being grown ups, but you’ve exhausted our patience and blown it. This has been explained numerous times now.

IIRC it was clear right from the start that the discussion itself was fine depending on how people behaved. After umpty-seven warnings the ban came into effect.

If you interpret that simple thing as “allows atrocities to take place while imposing a gag on those who might question them” then it just goes to show much of a bad idea it would be to let us discuss in more detail 😂

TL;DR: “shut up and stop arguing” != “we support genocide” 🙄

I can see the frustration, as pointed out the last thread was civil and plenty more rumble on with spats throughout. In fact the last thread was started to discuss the AI aspect which was what was broadly being discussed. The forbidden subject wasn’t even hinted at until a mod (okay, let’s be honest, it was Drac as he’s the only one that actually has the guts to admit his position) started poking for info.

Their ball their rules but I’m also uncomfortable with the fact that it’s this subject and only this subject being censored.

The secret police thing annoys me too because of the complete lack of transparency but that’s another subject for another day. Again, their ball their rules.  You either accept that or go. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to explain why though, how else are you going to get open and transparent feedback.

an organisation (there’s a magazine?) that allows atrocities to take place

Allows? Is there there some kind of hotline from Netanyahu to Todmorden we don’t know about? FFS!

to an organisation (there’s a magazine?) that allows atrocities to take place while imposing a gag on those who might question them.

It is silly statements like this that cause a lot of the issues.

I thought Drac was the only member/mod now and they’d stopped with the secret mods, all other mods were staff or some third party company? Am I mixing this place up with somewhere else?

* looks around suspiciously*

Netanyahu Netan-Yee-Haa

Join the debate on Pistonheads – the land of Clarksons. (Should be a Big Train sketch)

Bloody hell mate, what makes you think a MTB forum is critical to the discourse on Gaza.

Didn’t you know world leaders and egotistical dictators all check in on STW before firing off rockets? Sadam used to often see if there was any middle aged rage to his plans to blow stuff up and just the other week Vlad popped in to see if we minded if he advanced a bit further. The language barrier does make some of the threads from Somali pirates a bit tricky to understand but we muddle through, not as bad as that poor nigerian prince who keeps asking for help in the classifieds.

The secret police thing annoys me too because of the complete lack of transparency

I think many mods have left/stopped becasue of the levels of abuse that comes their way. I can understand why some of them go incognito

Well, after a very unsatisfactory answer to my censorship question, and it becoming apparent that rather than allow us to discuss the ongoing genocide in Gaza the powers that be would rather silence all debate, I’m off.

It’s a shame, I love this place, but I can’t add my name or my money to an organisation (there’s a magazine?) that allows atrocities to take place while imposing a gag on those who might question them.

I wonder who took this decision? The staff all seem like pretty cool people. Anyway, I’m rambling, good bye.

Bless.

it’s an emotive subject you’d expect it to get heated 😕

Have you thought about just going on Twitter/X instead?

I believe they do that kind of thing there

Maybe the sixth form common room?

I don’t know why some people (and its achingly predictable which ones) seem absolutely intent on discussing it on here. Other than the obvious answer… for an orgy of competitive virtue signalling to each other.

The language being used is also absolutely preposterous.

Endorsing atrocities?

Get over yourselves FFS!

Asking people not to discuss an emotive subject, is not unreasonable. To claim that doing so is “allowed attrocities to take place” is unreasonable and perhaps somewhat justifies their claim that this is not the place to discuss this subject.

MOD – The threads always descend in to argument, then rule breaking, normally personal insults and racism, and when we try to moderate per the rules, we get abuse, and accusations of us of being on the ‘other’ side. We’ve tried to give you all a chance at being grown ups, but you’ve exhausted our patience and blown it. This has been explained numerous times now.

I used to moderate a different forum.  One or two people used to occasionally take the piss with what was permitted.  When I closed their threads they got abusive towards me – this was people I knew in real life.  I can totally understand volunteer mods not needing that shit in their lives.

I’m not sure how having a thread closed on a mountain biking forum amounts to censorship?

To be honest this whole thread is a classic example of why we should walk away from our computers rather than posting stuff whilst we’re still angry about it.

Being a Palace fan is never easy

Some pretty poor comments due to an incorrect use of language, rather childish replies which pretty much sums up what this forum is becoming.

The anon mod policy is mine. When we bring in a new mod I give them the option of being anon or not. However I always strongly recommend that they remain anonymous as they will attract personal abuse. It has happened in the past that a mod has been abused in the outside world as a result of them being nothing more than a volunteer with the best interests of the whole community as their principle motivation.

As for the censorship issue… I’ll be starting a thread on that shortly with a way forward.

Asking people not to discuss an emotive subject, is not unreasonable.

Palestine-Israel has not suddenly become an emotive issue in the last few months. It has been discussed on STW for years without the slightest problem.

The only thing which appears to have changed recently on STW is apparently less support for Israel. Which suggests greater consensus.

Agreed. It’s the same dozen people who have far too much time on their hands . Who are never wrong , even when they’re wrong. Who refuse to back down from an argument and escalate with petty playground behaviour worthy of an angry 9 year old.

It’s as if arguing with strangers on an internet forum will actually change someone’s perspective ( doubtful) or the event that they are arguing about ( impossible) yet still on and on and on they go. It’s a tidal wave of cut and paste selected quotes with no winners, little rational thought, and very difficult to back your veiwpoint by posting hot links that are invariably Hidden behind sign ups and pay walls that few people have hours of their ever decreasing spare time to digest

It has been discussed on STW for years without the slightest problem.

As far as I can recall, the only Israel Palestine thread that hasn’t been locked due to big hitter escalation was the allotment one.

The only thing which appears to have changed recently on STW is apparently less support for Israel. Which suggests greater consensus.

There was a concept, a British invention , developed for the north of Ireland, the acceptable level of violence. Provided things didn’t get too atrocious the government figured most people, not in Ireland or being killed  had other things to worry about / occupy their minds so things could carry on.

I would suggest the Israeli government has been banking on this for years  but have now i) inflicted too much violence ii) the internet age has transformed access to instant news and this is a change which has led to more scrutiny and less support for Israel from a wider range of people and it has become a more emotive issue for some. YMMV

As far as I can recall, the only Israel Palestine thread that hasn’t been locked due to big hitter escalation was the allotment one.

You must be on a different forum to me. I don’t recall the Israeli-Palestine debate ever been shut down previously.

Edit: The allotment thread was a very clever ruse by MrNutt to get some people to take a moral stand which they otherwise would not have taken. It was genius.

Palestine-Israel has not suddenly become an emotive issue in the last few months. It has been discussed on STW for years without the slightest problem.

I would respecitvely suggest that it has become a lot more of an emotive issue recently, which you may not realise if you say…

The only thing which appears to have changed recently on STW is apparently less support for Israel.

..as it suggests you are not following any news and happily riding your bike in the hills all day every day.

My point is also that I believe it’s unreasonable to say that any such policy is “allowing attrocities to take place”.

It has been discussed on STW for years without the slightest problem.

That’s not my recollection. Loads of previous threads have been closed. Selective memory?

Most people just walk away.

an organisation (there’s a magazine?) that allows atrocities to take place while imposing a gag on those who might question them

But this, well this made me laugh out loud. An internet forum is not allowing activities to take place by any stretch of the imagination. Shutting down a conversation because of multiple forum rule breaches is not imposing a gag either.

But you do you, I am quite sure you won’t be missed if you draw these sorts of conclusions from what is standard internet forum moderating 101.

the powers that be would rather silence all debate

FFS, the mods have made it very clear why Israel threads are closed, they always descend into name calling and abuse. There’s plenty of debate about other controversial topics, it’s just that particular topic does not generate any productive debate. This is a mountain biking forum on a privately owned website. They can ban any topic or any posters they feel like. I’ve had a few short bans over the years but, given what the mods have to put up with, my sympathy is with them.

Thanks Ernie for demonstrating why we decided on a blanket ban.

As Mark has hinted, we’ve discussed the subject further and there will be a dedicated thread.

FFS, the mods have made it very clear why Israel threads are closed, they always descend into name calling and abuse.

To be fair thois2 I recall you as one of the persons who derailed the original thread with repeated allegations of anti-semitism.

For the record I am not hugely bothered by the banning of the topic on STW, certainly not as much as some.

I know that the need to make accusations of anti-semitism and to shut down the debate is an obvious sign of desperation by supporters of the appalling Israeli government. They are losing the argument everywhere and right across the world.

Whether it is discussed on STW or not is obviously totally inconsequential.

Get a grip of yourself man! The attitude you have is part of the problem – don’t like what you hear so you run away.

He doesn’t give up, does he?

Gaza

too soon