• This topic has 164 replies, 37 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by timba.
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  • Taiwan
  • Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    70 get’s ye 22km, they’d 426 Type 3, @ 315m each 😆 Would need less type 4’s I’d guess.

    Premier Icon markgraylish
    Free Member

    70+ aircraft carriers sounds like a good idea – they could link them nose to tail and they would probably be about halfway to Taiwan.

    Lol, maybe they could put a conveyor belt on top of them all 😅

    Premier Icon chewkw
    Free Member

    some of the 70+ aircraft carriers are to subdue SE Asia or Asia and to defend their territorial interests. Some SE Asian nations have already voiced neutrality but whether they can maintain it is difficult to say.

    They have two problems though:

    1. Population is aging.
    2. They need other Asian/SE Asian countries to support them … they need to buy them.

    Premier Icon PJM1974
    Free Member

    China is not ready yet until they have 70+ aircraft carriers.

    Put the scrumpy down Chewk and go to bed.

    Premier Icon chewkw
    Free Member

    Put the scrumpy down Chewk and go to bed.

    That’s the China’s logic because it will be a naval warfare, hence the saber-rattling at the moment because they are not confident enough. Once they have the confident they are not going to pussy foot around Taiwan or the region. America might have many bases in South Pacific but it still requires naval capability to go anyway near China/Taiwan.

    They are on their 3rd or 4th aircraft carriers now and will be building more in future. They know their arch enemies are focusing (or provoking) on them but they are not biting. You will know when they are ready.

    Premier Icon ernielynch
    Free Member

    You will know when they are ready.

    It will be when they have at least 70 aircraft carriers apparently.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    China will implement its own Monroe doctrine type thing at some point. To be honest I generally agree with Chewkw here.

    Premier Icon chewkw
    Free Member

    It will be when they have at least 70 aircraft carriers apparently.

    That’s just an estimation people there are talking but I think it is more or less the equivalent of slightly more than the combined NATO fleet.

    Premier Icon PJM1974
    Free Member

    To be honest I generally agree with Chewkw here.

    Insofar as to whether the PRC is ready to go to war in the Pacific over sleight from Pelosi then I agree that it isn’t happening.

    “Large scale military drills” on the part of China are likely to make key neighbours very nervous.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Full Member

    To be honest I generally agree with Chewkw here.

    Its the 70 carriers which goes into fantasy land. Far more significant are the turning random reefs into unsinkable carriers (whether they are unsinkable beats hard to find is a subject which can only be proved the hard way).
    The carriers dont really help much for Taiwan since it is close enough that modern jets with drop tanks would be able to establish air superiority over it (not like BoE where the Germans had very limited loiter time for its fighters and hence open season for the defenders).
    The main problem isnt military but general infrastructure and economics. Hence why everyone outside Taiwan are trying to build resilience into their systems and the Taiwan companies are doing the minimal possible to support that whilst pretending to.
    Currently a Chinese invasion of Taiwan will hurt everyone massively and so no one is overly keen on it.
    However politics always plays a part. If China had ignored the visit then I think everyone else will have. However the delay due to covid pushed it late enough that it seems to have been a bit of a threat to Xi ahead of the party conference and hence he wanted a show of force.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    70 is maybe fantasy land, but you could easily see the chinese with up to 30. NATO combined have 17 btw. Good point on the Spratly Islands.

    Premier Icon PJM1974
    Free Member

    That’s just an estimation people there are talking

    You’ll pee your pants when I break down the projected performance of the BAC TSR2 on the basis of what I’ve read on alt-news sites.

    Premier Icon chewkw
    Free Member

    “Large scale military drills” on the part of China are likely to make key neighbours very nervous.

    Only for Taiwan while other SE Asian countries don’t really care much to be honest because China has never invaded them in hundred of years, but China has upper hand in influencing the politics and trade which also annoyed many of them.

    However politics always plays a part. If China had ignored the visit then I think everyone else will have.

    Yes, if they just let it be then there will be no news but CCP needs to save face hence all the big talk and hot air.

    You’ll pee your pants when I break down the projected performance of the BAC TSR2 on the basis of what I’ve read on alt-news sites.

    Don’t hold back. There are many news sites all over with their views. For me it is simple, no enough carriers no fight. All hot air.

    As for whatever NATO power there is when China is ready you will know.

    At the moment we are forum “war experts” and we know it all. LOL!

    p/s: The eyes in the sky (satellite, drone and etc) will get it first when the real war starts.

    Premier Icon PJM1974
    Free Member

    There are many news sites all over with their views. For me it is simple, no enough carriers no fight. All hot air.

    As you succinctly put, we’re all Friday night post-pub shut ins speculating upon the intricacies of US foreign policy. My point was that it would be good to see you cite some of your sources and discuss accordingly.

    Premier Icon chewkw
    Free Member

    My point was that it would be good to see you cite some of your sources and discuss accordingly.

    Chinese and Taiwanese weekly news. Can’t type in Chinese so can’t reference or search for them. Some if not all news clips or sites were sent to me without URL …

    Something like this …

    Taiwanese channel

    CCP channel

    Many more like this …

    Another channel

    Sometimes they get good guest speakers but most of the time they get too excited …

    Some of the channels are dedicated to nothing but China’s military power …

    Premier Icon PJM1974
    Free Member

    Chinese and Taiwanese weekly news. Can’t type in Chinese so can’t reference.

    Convenient.

    Premier Icon PJM1974
    Free Member

    Sometimes they get good guest speakers but most of the time they get too excited …

    Some of the channels are dedicated to nothing but China’s military power …

    We’ve established that you and I broadly agree that the PRC isn’t militarily nor politically ready to invade Taiwan.

    Seeing you post citations from a range of sources is good. Please cite and discuss.

    Premier Icon chewkw
    Free Member

    We’ve established that you and I broadly agree that the PRC isn’t militarily nor politically ready to invade Taiwan.

    Yes, they are all hot air at the moment but not in another 50 years.

    Seeing you post citations from a range of sources is good. Please cite and discuss.

    Too many to cite and translation can be difficult to translate at times.

    Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    Its the 70 carriers which goes into fantasy land.

    And so is 30. Aircraft carriers wouldn’t play a role in invading Taiwan. China has no use for 30 aircraft carriers. A handful might be useful, a huge fleet would just be a waste of money.

    Premier Icon dyna-ti
    Full Member

    Best defence against carriers no matter the number would be small low manned subs. Nothing big like a nuclear version. Small easy and quick to produce and in large numbers. Minimum number of torpedoes, fire and disappear.

    Premier Icon DT78
    Free Member

    no need for manned subs. just the underwater equivalent of aerial drones. maybe designed to look and sound like a large fish.

    Premier Icon timba
    Free Member

    Yes, if they just let it be then there will be no news but CCP needs to save face hence all the big talk and hot air

    Absolutely this. CCP has been threatening Taiwan since CCP won the civil war in 1949 and Chang Kai-shek sailed forth and set up the ROC on Taiwan
    The US has stopped potential invasions by just being there, e.g. 7th Fleet during the Korean War (CCP supported N.Korea, US the south).
    Diplomatic relations resumed in 1979 with the US switching diplomatic recognition from Taipei to Beijing, but with the US Taiwan Relations Act in place
    Essentially, we’ll refer to one-China and Taiwan being part of China, but don’t invade and everyone’s happy
    The problem is that China sees the US as upping the ante with arms sales and now Pelosi’s visit.
    The other problem is that CCP is going to the “polls” soon and President Xi is going for an unheard of third term, what did they think he would do?

    Premier Icon tagnut69
    Free Member

    It might be a silly question but what has NATO got to do with anything going on in the south china sea?

    Premier Icon tagnut69
    Free Member

    With this escalation over Taiwan and our reliance of the chips they produce from a handful of factories I would like to think that sister plants are being set up in more suitable/stable parts of the world should, but are they?

    Premier Icon hatter
    Full Member

    NATO’s doctrine and the USA’s repeatedly stated commitment to militarily support Taiwan in the event of a Chinese invasion means NATO is involved, to what degree remains to be seen, but in any conflict between the USA and China its hard to see how we wouldn’t end up being dragged in.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    tagnut69
    Free Member
    It might be a silly question but what has NATO got to do with anything going on in the south china sea?

    It’s a very fair question, tbf, it’s not really NATO, There a potential of an Asian NATO with the Quad. You’d imagine there’ll be some kinda NATO/Quad+ alliance in the future though. Sure they invited Asian countries to the last NATO meeting. But the Asian specific stuff is defo US led.

    https://mondediplo.com/2021/06/08bulard

    Premier Icon timba
    Free Member

    It might be a silly question but what has NATO got to do with anything going on in the south china sea?

    In short, nothing. US is a NATO member, but that shouldn’t be conflated with NATO defending Taiwan if the US choose to.
    It was reported in April that Liz Truss and Boris both want a “global NATO” and NATO discussed the region, CCP, etc at the Madrid summit in June, ” The Indo-Pacific is important for NATO, given that developments in that region can directly affect Euro-Atlantic security. We will strengthen dialogue and cooperation with new and existing partners in the Indo-Pacific to tackle cross-regional challenges and shared security interests” https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2022/6/pdf/290622-strategic-concept.pdf

    Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    With this escalation over Taiwan and our reliance of the chips they produce from a handful of factories I would like to think that sister plants are being set up in more suitable/stable parts of the world should, but are they?

    I’m skeptical that this will actually make any big difference, but the U.S. is working on it.

    Premier Icon Caher
    Full Member

    An interesting point made on Dateline in that the Chinese would have known well in advanced about Pelosi’s visit giving them time to get their military prepared for its war games and bullying.

    Premier Icon ernielynch
    Free Member

    Which is presumably why China warned Pelosi not to go ahead with the visit long before it occurred.

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/20/china/china-warns-pelosi-taiwan-visit-intl-hnk/index.html

    Premier Icon pk13
    Full Member

    Buy the time the 70th functional carrier launches.
    Numbers 1to30 would be rusty out of date deathtraps.
    Even using slave labour from Tebet and all the “eduction”facilitys for the Muslim community to build them it’s a pipe dream.

    It’s kinda the wests fault for letting china produce our tech on such huge numbers especially chipsets.

    Who brought ARM from the UK? Food security along with gas and oil? We turned a blind eye on who produced our stuff thinking they would become Western facing politically.

    Premier Icon piemonster
    Full Member

    And then, there is this ongoing lethal squabble

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932022_China%E2%80%93India_skirmishes

    Im not realy sure what Indias view is on rising Chinese power. Time for a cup of tea and a biscuit to find out a bit more.

    Premier Icon dyna-ti
    Full Member

    We’ve seen how China has treated Hong Kong, would any of us want that for the Taiwanese ?

    Premier Icon funkmasterp
    Full Member

    Definitely not. We’ve basically abandoned Hong Kong and it’s awful. We in the west shouldn’t have enabled China to become the world’s manufacturing plant.

    Premier Icon ernielynch
    Free Member

    By the time the 70th functional carrier launches.
    Numbers 1to30 would be rusty out of date deathtraps.

    That won’t matter because by then they will probably have built half a dozen death stars too.

    Premier Icon pk13
    Full Member

    They better sort the exhaust ports out then it’s a well know weak spot.

    Premier Icon airvent
    Free Member

    you could easily see the chinese with up to 30.

    Absolutely no chance and by the time even 10 have been built they will be out of date.

    Premier Icon mrdestructo
    Full Member

    If you sign up for the PLA you’re in for life. If you resign you see disgrace. The opposite of citizenship right advancement in Starship Troopers. You lose rights.

    So, they stay in, and become corrupt as they blend into the vehicle ruts of the rhetoric.

    The son of a poor divorced woman in my circles joined the army as an infantryman. A former student was going to become an army doctor (or, the only way to become a doctor was to be in the army).

    I’ve met tens of thousands of citizens here and these are the only two I’ve known to signal any willingness to join the military. There’s more in my family alone who were in the military, than I’ve met out here.

    And combat experienced troops? None. They’re watching the Ukraine carefully to see how this will go. To attack over the water will go horribly wrong for them. Mass casualties expected. The people back home won’t have the will for that. There is a large growing dissatisfaction with their one party leadership as it is. If you educate the masses, so that they start to think, they’ll not blindly be nationalists baying for western blood.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    Who decided that the Chinese are going to build 70 carriers? If there’s even 10 operational by 2050 I’d be impressed.

    Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    It was a number chewk plucked out of his imagination. No basis in any sort of reality.

    chewkw
    Free Member
    China is not ready yet until they have 70+ aircraft carriers. When they have more aircraft carriers that’s the time we see war.

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