Hi.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience of Tabata training and if so did it bring results you expected?

Tabata training

yes, use it a lot. it works, but ignore the temptation to do extra training on top of it.

do it, do it hard, then recover.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience of Tabata training

Yes

did it bring results you expected?

No, made me want to give up cycling….. 🙂

Good news – Do you know of some good combinations to use or is it a case of making your own up to suit purpose?

Been doing them this winter for first time. They are v hard. I know a few of the top cross riders in the North West and they all do them.

Must be beneficial given how hard they are. Ignore how short the session is and preferable to be fresh when doing them.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience of Tabata training

Yes

did it bring results you expected?

yes it hurt and it was unpleasant

I do mine on the turbo, level 2 resistance, 20 secs on 10 rest 8 sets, I stay seated and try to keep decent form, you really have to commit to them they’re pretty brutal, oh 10 min warmup, 5 min cool down….have fun!

for those of you that are doing tabata to improve your cycling are you doing your tabata sessions on a bike or are you doing tabata sessions with body weights/weights/equipment/running/jumping etc?

my point is, will doing tabata sessions not on the bike improve aerobic/anaerobic fitness that will transfer to cycling?

I do Tabata on the rowing machine.

Find it hard to max out on a stationary bike and dangerous to go max lat out on the road. Might try it with running and swimming.
The weights circuits look interesting too.

Really find it difficult to limit myself to 15 mins though… plus how many hours rest are you supposed to take?

iDave – do you still have a link to tabata MP3 tracks?

I’ve done some of these as classes at the gym, has naff music, but working as part of a group can help push you. I’ve also got one of the timers so I can do these on my own.

Metafit

There’s plenty of similar routines out there

“Good news – Do you know of some good combinations to use or is it a case of making your own up to suit purpose?”

Tabata is 8 x 20/10

anything else is stuff made up by people who think it isn’t enough, but it really is.

Tabata is great for boxing / bag training. It really helps endurance & stamina

I tried it once and struggled to walk up and down stairs for a few days after 🙁

So I could use the 8min of 20 on 10 off, to any exercise. For example rowing, running, dips, push ups.

Would I only do one session, running or rowing not both? I would change this each day to work different muscles?

Looks like a more structured interval training session, but as with most exercise there is a plethora of crap on the net.

Yes. Typical routine:

3 minutes at each exercise – 20 seconds work, 10 seconds throughout each 3 minute session

Exercise 1 – Burpees with a press-up
Exercise 2 – Medicine ball smash
Exercise 3 – Tuck jumps on a crash mat
Exercise 4 – Reverse Curls
Exercise 5 – Medicine ball squat throw
Exercise 6 – Hot plates
Exercise 7 – Battling rope

Every exercise gets repeated three times. Most people spew at their first couple of attempts

tabata is 4 minutes, of 8 x 20 sec reps. that’s it. little gain from doing more.

Exercise 6 – Hot plates

Chinese or Indian!

i do a session of tabata on the heavy bag and then bodyweight squats. Alternate hitting the bag then doing squats.
i.e 20 secs punching the bag 10 secs rest, then 20 secs squats 10 secs rest. 8 rounds of this and that is one set. Try and aim for 6 – 10 sets.
It hurts a bit but gets you warmed up!

iDave – you tried talking to this…

Boardinbob, can you explain what are hot plates and battling rope?

Kev

Find it hard to max out on a stationary bike and dangerous to go max lat out on the road. Might try it with running and swimming.

There’s this one (from wiki) for the reasons you’ve stated
http://jp.physoc.org/content/early/2010/01/20/jphysiol.2009.181743.abstract

Though quite how you get a feel for ‘100% maximal aerobic power’ as opposed to ‘as fast as you can’, I’m not sure.
Also is done 3 times a week as opposed to 4 for tabata.

Had a go today on a spin bike, but had done weights and kettle bell swings before, went as hard as I could for the efforts but know it wasn’t great in terms of power and rpm. Felt properly shakey afterwards. Would I be better off doing the tabata session on a separate day to the weights?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8897392

Original paper (well the abstract) for those that are interested….

Possibly a numpty Q about this – Tabata et al. seem to go straight for 7-8 x 20 work/10 rest in that article. Has there been any research into the result of changing the sessions, either number of reps or the work/rest times. iDave – you suggest that there’s no benefit from doing more but what’s that based on? (no axe to grind, I’m genuinely curious)

dr_death – Member
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8897392

Original paper (well the abstract) for those that are interested….

During high-intensity exercise lasting more than a few seconds, adenosine triphosphate (ATP) is resynthesized by both aerobic and anaerobic processes (7). The ability to resynthesize ATP may limit performance in many sports. Thus, if possible, the training of athletes for sports involving high-intensity exercise should improve the athletes’ ability to release energy both aerobically and anaerobically. The success of different training regimens can and should be evaluated by the athletes’ performance. However, performance is influenced by other factors such as psychology. In addition, an adequate training regimen may have several different components, all of which may not improve the athletes’ ability to resynthesize ATP. Training programs should therefore be evaluated by other means, e.g., by laboratory experiments.

The aerobic energy releasing system is conventionally evaluated by maximal oxygen uptake (·VO2max) (10), and there are many studies on the effect of training on ·VO2max(9). However, until recently methods for quantifying anaerobic energy release have been inadequate and thus information on the effect of training on anaerobic capacity, i.e., the maximum amount of energy available from anaerobic sources, is incomplete. We have proposed that the accumulated oxygen deficit, first introduced by Krogh and Lindhard in 1920 (4), is an accurate measure of the anaerobic energy release during treadmill running (6) and bicycling (7). This principle may allow examination of the anaerobic capacity (3), taken as the maximal accumulated oxygen deficit during 2-3 min of exhaustive exercise (6,7). Therefore, the effect of specific training on the anaerobic capacity may be evaluated by measuring the maximal accumulated oxygen deficit before and after training. Generally, the more demanding the training, the greater the fitness benefits. Therefore, we were interested in learning whether the effects of training on anaerobic capacity are dependent on the magnitude of anaerobic energy release developed by the specific training. To study this issue, we compared two different training protocols: a moderate-intensity endurance training that is not supposed to depend on anaerobic metabolism and a high-intensity intermittent training that is supposed to recruit the anaerobic energy releasing system almost maximally.

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MATERIALS AND METHODS

Subjects. Young male students majoring in physical education volunteered for the study (Table 1). Most were physically active and were members of varsity table tennis, baseball, basketball, football (soccer), and swimming teams. After receiving a detailed explanation of the purposes, potential benefits, and risks associated with participating in the study, each student gave his written consent.

Table 1
Protocol. All experiments, as well as pretests, were done on a mechanically braked cycle ergometer (Monark, Stockholm, Sweden) at 90 rpm. Each test or high-intensity intermittent training session was introduced by a 10-min warm-up at about 50% of ·VO2max.

Experiment 1. The subjects started training after their·VO2max and maximal accumulated oxygen deficit were measured. They exercised 5 d·wk-1 for 6 wk at an intensity that elicited 70% of each subject’s ·VO2max. The pedaling rate was 70 rpm, and the duration of the training was 60 min. As each subject’s ·VO2max increased during the training period, exercise intensity was increased from week to week as required to elicit 70% of the actual ·VO2max. During the training, the maximal accumulated oxygen deficit was measured before, at 4 wk, and after the training. ·VO2max was determined before and after the training and every week during the training period.

Experiment 2. Subjects exercised for 5 d·wk-1 for 6 wk. For 4 d·wk-1, they exercised using exhaustive intermittent training. They were encouraged by the supervisor to complete seven to eight sets of the exercise. Exercise was terminated when the pedaling frequency dropped below 85 rpm. When they could complete more than nine sets of the exercise, exercise intensity was increased by 11 W. One day per week the subjects exercised for 30 min at an intensity of 70% ·VO2max before carrying out four sets of the intermittent exercise at 170%·VO2max. This latter session was not exhaustive. The anaerobic capacity was determined before, at 2 wk, and 4 wk into the training, and after the training. ·VO2max was determined before, at 3 wk, 5 wk, and after the training.

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METHODS

Pretest. Each subject’s oxygen uptake was measured during the last 2 min of six to nine different 10-min exercise sets at constant power. The power used during each set ranged between 39% and 87% of the·VO2max. In addition, the power that would exhaust each subject in 2-3 min was established. These pretests were carried out on 3-5 separate days.

·VO2max. After a linear relationship between exercise intensity and the steady-state oxygen uptake had been determined in the pretests, the oxygen uptake was measured for the last two or three 30-s intervals during several bouts of supramaximal intensity exercise that lasted 2-4 min. The highest ·VO2 was determined to be the subject’s·VO2max (7,10).

Anaerobic capacity. Anaerobic capacity, the maximal accumulated oxygen deficit during a 2-3-min exhaustive bicycle exercise, was determined according to the method of Medbø et al.(6,7). The exercise intensity used to cause exhaustion within the desired duration (2-3 min) was established on pretests. On the day that anaerobic capacity was measured, the subjects exercised at the preset power to exhaustin (defined as when they were unable to keep the pedaling rate above 85 rpm).

Methods of analysis. Fractions of oxygen and carbon dioxide in the expired air were measured by a mass spectrometer (MGA-1100, Perkin-Elmer Cetus, Norwalk CT). The gas volume was measured by a gasometer (Shinagawa Seisakusho, Tokyo, Japan). Values are shown as means ± SD. The data were compared using a paired t-test. The significance level for all comparisons was set at P < 0.05.

Calculations. For each subject linear relationships between the oxygen demand and power (experiment 1: r = 0.997 ± 0.001, experiment 2: r = 0.998 ± 0.001) were established from the measured steady state oxygen uptake at different power during the pretests. The regression parameters are shown in Table 2. The regression parameters did not change during training periods in either experiment 1 or 2.

Table 2
The oxygen demands of the 2-3 min of exhausting exercise were estimated by extrapolating these relationships to the power used during the experiment. The accumulated oxygen demand was taken as the product of the estimated oxygen demand and the duration of the exercise, while the accumulated oxygen uptake was taken as the measured oxygen uptake integrated over the exercise duration. The accumulated oxygen deficit was taken as the difference between these two entities.

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RESULTS

Experiment 1. After the 6 wk of training, the anaerobic capacity did not change (Fig. 1) (P > 0.10). The·VO2max increased significantly during the training (Fig. 2) (P < 0.01).

Figure 1-Effect of t… Figure 2-Effect of t…
Experiment 2. The anaerobic capacity increased by 23% after 4 wk of training (P < 0.01, Fig. 1). It increased further toward the end of the training period. After the training period, the anaerobic capacity reached 77 ± 9 ml·kg-1, 28% higher than the pretraining capacity.

After 3 wk of training, the ·VO2max had increased significantly by 5 ± 3 ml·kg-1·min-1 (P < 0.01, Fig. 2). It tended to increase in the last part of the training period, but no significant changes were observed. The final·VO2max after 6 wk of training was 55 ± 6 ml·kg-1·min-1, a value of 7 ± 1 ml·kg-1·min-1 above the pretraining value.

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DISCUSSION

The main finding of this study was that 6 wk of aerobic training at 70%·VO2max improved the ·VO2max by 5 ml·kg-1·min-1 in moderately trained young men but that the anaerobic capacity, as judged by the maximal accumulated oxygen deficit, did not change. The second finding is that 6 wk of training using high-intensity intermittent exhaustive exercise improved ·VO2max by 7 ml·kg-1·min-1 and the anaerobic capacity by 28%.

The observation in experiment 1 that anaerobic capacity did not change after 6 weeks of moderate-intensity endurance training but that·VO2max did increase has several implications. First, it shows the specificity of training; aerobic training does not change anaerobic capacity. Since lactate production accounts for about 75% of maximal anaerobic energy release (11), significant improvements in anaerobic capacity will probably require that the subjects can produce more lactate after training. Consequently, lactate production should be stressed to increase the anaerobic capacity during “anaerobic” training. However, since the blood lactate concentration during the exercise was low (about 2 mmol·l-1), the major part of anaerobic energy released during the exercise probably comes from the breakdown of phosphocreatine (PCr). Therefore, the training sessions in experiment 1 probably did not tax the lactate producing system much and therefore did not tax the whole anaerobic energy releasing system to any significant extent. Actually, the accumulated oxygen deficit during the first minutes of the exercise at 70%·VO2max was only 37 ± 6% (N = 7) of the maximal accumulated oxygen deficit (data not shown).

Second, the results of experiment 1 support the idea that the accumulated oxygen deficit is a specific measure of the maximal anaerobic energy release. Due to the increased ·VO2max after the training period, the subjects could exercise for more than 6 min at the power used for the pretraining 2- to 3-min anaerobic capacity test. Therefore, the exercise power for the posttraining anaerobic capacity test was increased by 6 ± 3% to exhaust each subject in 2-3 min. However, the accumulated oxygen deficit appeared unaffected by the higher power used at the posttraining test, suggesting that this entity is able to distinguish between aerobic and anaerobic energy release at different powers. The alternative interpretation, that there was a change in the anaerobic capacity but that this change was obscured by a bias in the accumulated oxygen deficit, cannot be ruled out, but the findings here suggest that the latter interpretation is less likely.

The high-intensity intermittent training in experiment 2 improved anaerobic capacity by 28%. Medbø and Burgers (5) reported that 6 wk of the intermittent training (their group B) increased the anaerobic capacity of untrained men by 16%. Since there are no clear differences in exercise intensity, exercise duration, and number of exercise bouts between the two studies, this quantitative difference in improving anaerobic capacity is probably explained by the difference between the two studies in magnitude of the anaerobic energy release during each training session. The peak blood lactate concentration after each training session in the previous study (5) was 69% of the peak blood lactate concentration after the 2-min exhaustive running. Therefore, anaerobic metabolism, and especially the lactate producing system, was probably not taxed maximally. In contrast, the peak blood lactate concentration after the intermittent training in this investigation was not significantly different from the value observed after the anaerobic capacity test that recruited anaerobic energy releasing systems maximally. In addition, our subjects exercised to exhaustion, but in the previous study, the subjects’ rating of perceived exertion (1) was only 15 (“hard”). This difference may also reflect the recruited level of anaerobic energy release. Therefore, these results support our hypothesis that the higher the anaerobic energy release during each training session the higher the increase in anaerobic capacity after a training period.

In addition to anaerobic capacity, the intermittent training increased·VO2max significantly in experiment 2. This is to our knowledge the first study to demonstrate an increase in both anaerobic capacity and maximal aerobic power. It should be emphasized that during the last part of each training session the oxygen uptake almost equaled each subject’s maximal oxygen uptake (data not shown). High-intensity intermittent training is a very potent means of increasing maximal oxygen uptake (2). It is interesting to note that the increase in the maximal oxygen uptake that we found is almost identical to that expected for intermittent training by Fox (2). Consequently, the protocol used in training in experiment 2 may be optimal with respect to improving both the aerobic and the anaerobic energy releasing systems.

The intensive bicycle training may have affected the efficiency of cycling, meaning that the relationship between power and ·VO2 may have changed. This change may affect the measurement of anaerobic capacity because the accumulated oxygen deficit is a calculated entity assuming a constant mechanical efficiency. However, our subjects were sufficiently familiar with bicycle exercise through repeated testing and experiments so that the relationship between the steady state oxygen uptake and power did not change during the training periods. Therefore, the pre- and posttraining data of the accumulated oxygen deficit should be comparable.

In summary, this investigation demonstrated that 6 wk of moderate-intensity endurance training did not affect anaerobic capacity but that 6 wk of high-intensity intermittent training (20 s exercise, 10 s rest; intensity 170%·VO2max) may improve both anaerobic capacity and ·VO2max simultaneously.

So how hard then? I’ve been doing them on the treadmill, just feeling my way. Is it a ‘struggle to complete the set’ difficulty?

So how hard then?

absolute max effort

i used for a while in an attempt to up lactic threshhold and think it worked

used a gymboss timer (google carefully)about £10 or so but i guess phone apps available
did on a rowing machine which is my preferred excersise so that helps
and sometimes running but found that less effective, don’t try out on your bike – went straight off trail as ignored bend when maxing

yes its all you do but you need to be warmed up – so i would do after say 30-40mins at recovery rate and do 10-15 minutes afterwards to flush out muscles

Idave.. do u think it’s really useful workout to do? (and at this time of year?)

I heard a lot of ppl on bikeradar,cycling forums etc not really rating it as it seems to work the top end.

I did it a few years ago and remember the pain well

I must try these. A bit scared to but I’m sure MTFU is one of the benefits of it 🙂

“I must try these. A bit scared…”
Well you do get lots of rests. And it’s over quite quickly 🙂

I really rate them. Very very hard workout, and I usually feel like I’m about to throw up after doing them. I’ve done them on the turbo and on the road, but I’m lucky in that there’s a nice short, very quite road that I can do it on.

I used it as pretty much my sole training for a sportive last year. Just over 100 miles, with the furthest I’d gone in training being 50. It definitely improved my endurance as well as my top end speed. Saved a lot of time over the training I’d done in the past.

Am I missing something, this all seems just like the Circuits I do at work.

I’d gone in training being 50. It definitely improved my endurance as well as my top end speed

This is what i want to know. Can it improve my endurance or Threshold power

Is doing sub threshold efforts better?

TD – yes.

Gunz – the point is you must do ONLY those intervals, nothing else, and they are utterly flat out. I suspec your circuit sessions are longer.

I did a session on Sunday, running. Legs were destroyed until today! Think I need to do them off-road in future!

I utterly hate it for that 4 minutes, but afterwards it feels great.

The kids hanging out at the bus stop thought I was crackers.

I did a session on Sunday, running. Legs were destroyed until today! Think I need to do them off-road in future!

I utterly hate it for that 4 minutes, but afterwards it feels great.

The kids hanging out at the bus stop thought I was crackers.
So are you literally just sprinting as fast as you can for 20s, then rest by jogging or whatever for 10s, repeat 8 times? Are you doing anything else bar warmup/cooldown or is that it i.e. day’s training session over in 10/15 mins?

Boardinbob, can you explain what are hot plates and battling rope?

Hot Plates are invented by one of my trainers (or so he claims)

Press up position with hands shoulder width apart, arms fully extended

Short explosive movement with your hands and bring them inso they’re in line with your chest. Your arms should be still full extended.

Keep repeating this movement as fast as possible. The “hot plates” bit suggests your hands are on hot plates and you need to keep moving them to stop you burning yourself. This should be a super high intensity exercise. Zero rest time between positions. Aim for 30-40 movements per 20 seconds of exercise.

Rope battles involve two long ropes, about 25 feet long and about the same thickness as a can of coke. One end of the ropes should be tethered to something and you grab the other end, one rope in each hand. The aim is to move the ropes up and down so they oscillate along their entire length. No stopping during the exercise and it’s great for forearms.

So are you literally just sprinting as fast as you can for 20s, then rest by jogging or whatever for 10s, repeat 8 times? Are you doing anything else bar warmup/cooldown or is that it i.e. day’s training session over in 10/15 mins?

Pretty much

10mins-ish gentle running to warm up (run to somewhere quiet with no obstacles, cars etc)

20sec eyeballs-out, absolutely fast as you can

10sec stagger, stumble, cough, try to get air into lungs

Repeat x 8

Gentle run home

Pint of milk (ignore that other thread!) banana, shower, water, beer, fall asleep on the sofa.

Edit – if you’re capable of doing any other training after this, you’re doing it wrong.

@thepurist – http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22124355

Seems to try and answer your question. Not published yet so haven’t had chance to read the full thing…..

day’s training session over in 10/15 mins?

Yep.

More is not necessarily more.