Syrian or Russian ?

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  • Syrian or Russian ?
  • PJM1974
    Member

    The group responsible for shooting the Russian airmen as they bailed out were neither Turkish, nor ISIL. The same group used a US supplied TOW missile to down a Russian rescue helicopter.

    It’s fair to say that armed militias aren’t trained in the intricacies of rules of engagement in the same way that and nation state’s own forces would be.

    Just prior to the Syrian civil war, Russia signed a treaty with Assad granting them use of a naval base and allowing them access to the Mediterranean. The Russians want Assad in place as a friendly power in the region. To this end, they’re bombing anyone opposing Assad, regardless of whether they’re ISIL or they belong to the ragtag group of militias the US is equipping and paying to take on ISIL and/or Assad.

    China have been strangely silent on this, especially in the wake of their condemnation of the execution of a Chinese hostage. One hopes that given their economic ties to Russia, they’ll be a voice of reason.

    konabunny
    Member

    The same can’t be said for Russia. The Russians are not going to kick off.

    Russia has fought wars in Ukraine and Georgia recently, as well as within Russia. They’re not shy about fighting wars – it’s an authoritarian state with the economy in trouble. War is an attractive exercise!

    chewkw
    Member

    thisisnotaspoon – Member

    Ya, but they are flown by Turkish …

    Alrite, let’s keep the discussion away from outright racism.[/quote]

    There you go it’s all about race again … Bet you see more skin colours than I do.

    Ya, in term of flying hours I bet the Russian has more experience then the Turks put it this way.

    Therefore, I want to see SU-35/34 vs F-16/18/etc … shoot down a couple of F-16/18 perhaps just to balance things up?

    I think they are all pussy footing to be honest.

    monkeyfudger – Member
    You’ve read chewkw posts before right?

    Good innit! I know I make sense unlike the supporters of JC (not Jesus Christ). πŸ˜†

    edit: slight hijack … I think someone should start printing/wearing t-shirt with the slogan “JC(not Jesus Christ)” or “JC =/= Jesus Christ” at the Labour conference or something … that should be funny. πŸ˜†

    CountZero
    Member

    Good innit! I know I make sense.

    On a planet a long time ago, far, far away, perhaps.
    Meanwhile, on planet Earth, not so much.

    chewkw
    Member

    CountZero – Member

    Good innit! I know I make sense.

    On a planet a long time ago, far, far away, perhaps.
    Meanwhile, on planet Earth, not so much. [/quote]

    Where? Mars? :mrgreen:

    jambalaya
    Member

    What PM says is spot on.

    chewkw
    Member

    Also Turkey will be swapped with migrants from the East by the looks of things. Ya, Turkey should try it on China too I say …

    chewkw – JC(not Jesus Christ)

    Please stop doing that. It’s not funny. No, not even a little bit.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Russia has fought wars in Ukraine and Georgia recently, as well as within Russia. They’re not shy about fighting wars – it’s an authoritarian state with the economy in trouble. War is an attractive exercise!

    The Ukraine and George don’t have proper air defense networks. The Russians will end up arming the Kurds as there has been talk of a Kurdish-Assad alliance for months. It will only kick off if the Turkish have the balls to try and stop Russia from cementing a Kurd-Assad alliance.

    Personally I don’t think they are that stupid – whilst the Russian economy is in a state that isn’t conducive to war, I do think Putin is playing a very clever game with Turkey. Nor do I think that Putin is stupid enough to start a proper shooting match unless Turkey calls their bluff, the Russians can win their objectives in the region without ever firing a shot at the Turks. The Turks know it as well, hence they ran like children to Nato for advice after they threw their toys out of the pram instead of apologizing to Putin.

    chewkw
    Member

    monkeyfudger – Member

    chewkw – JC(not Jesus Christ)

    Please stop doing that. It’s not funny. No, not even a little bit. [/quote]

    πŸ˜† Oh c’mon … you are being too serious.

    cloudnine – Member

    http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/11/24/north-korea-wondering-if-they-can-bomb-syria-too/

    All hail Dear Leader for trying to have fun. πŸ˜›

    Tom_W1987 – Member
    It will only kick off if the Turkish have the balls to try and stop Russia from cementing a Kurd-Assad alliance.

    Ya, that will learn them for trying to play with the “dancing bear”.

    hora
    Member

    On a earlier comment- Turkey wouldn’t win a ground war or any conventional war against Russia. Sorry.

    Same with the US. Again, sorry. All the talk about Russias financial situation, gave we forgotten the US fiscal cliff? Only recently there was deadlock and a last minute vote that saved the nation from dire straits.

    All the smart politicians know that Putin can’t or wont back down.

    wrecker
    Member

    Surely we all expect “our troops”* to behave better than ISIS?

    we do, but an act is an act. People are people. It’s either understandable or it’s not, regardless of who did it.
    Hora, the americans would pulverise the russians in short order. Wouldn’t even break a sweat and Putin knows it full well.

    chewkw
    Member

    wrecker – Member
    Hora, the americans would pulverise the russians in short order. Wouldn’t even break a sweat and Putin knows it full well.

    Both will be badly wounded IMO.

    hora
    Member

    Wrecker you really think that? I don’t. Proganda flows both ways. Lay off the blockbusters.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Really?

    The yanks **** pulverized the Iraqis in 91 and the vast majority of Russian equipment is of that era. The Americans utterly dominate the globe in terms of situational awareness in a fight. It’s not propaganda, they literally are by far and away the most powerful single expeditionary force the world has ever seen and will likely ever see. China, India…all have land border issues that will mean they will never obtain the kind of expeditionary capability of the Americans – the money will have to be spent elsewhere.

    Turkey and Russia would bloody each others noses heavily, both sides know that and both have framed this little game of “WW3 chicken” in that context.

    Russia v US,

    Big IF but if it really kicked off I suspect their Navies would last a week a best. Hopefully they’d back off after a carrier group or two was nuked BUT if it carried on watch Threads from 1984 for where we’d end up. Vladimir maybe a thug but he’s not stupid. I hope.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    It’s a complete myth that current ICBM’s can target carrier groups. Even then, you have to know where the group is and even with satellites that’s hard. See crashed airliners for example.

    The oceans a farking big place, carriers move and the destroyers that protect them can shoot your nice spy satellite down.

    True but nuclear tipped torpedoes only have to get a few km away. Google base surge. Also the Russians have some bloody good anti ship missiles.

    hora
    Member

    I don’t think they’d back down. Do you?

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Yup, and the Americans have about 10 times the number of attack submarines in a sea worthy ready to deploy state.

    One russian submarine might get through the maritime patrol ring, it might then just get through the attack sub net, one might get through the ring of helicopters and then the outer ring of destroyers….and then it might get a shot at a carrier group.

    Emphasis on might – if it wasn’t for nuclear weapons the yanks would have smacked the Russians around for the “lolz” years ago.

    The Russians would also have to have the bollocks to actually do that, as the one thing that is going to piss off Americans enough to actually press the big red killy button is another Pearl Harbor. No, American carrier groups can pretty much do and go wherever they feel like.

    hora
    Member

    You know all the numbers? For sure?

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    The Russians have about 20 attack subs, which are known for poor reliability and serviceability. Very few are ever at sea, when they do go to sea, they tend to sink with all hands on deck.

    Last time I checked the yanks had well over 60 that are all well looked after and maintained.

    Then you have all the European attack subs that are constantly out there tracking Russian submarines…..the west still rules the waves at the minute.

    wrecker
    Member

    Lay off the blockbusters.

    You need to open your eyes up mate. Russia is crippled by sanctions. Their reach is nowhere near what it was, they haven’t fully recovered from the fall of their empire. The US have a very, very capable military with recent experience of numerous operations. COIN ops are difficult, but a conventional war? It’s not even a fair fight.

    chewkw
    Member

    The divide and conquer strategy does work especially with tool like Turkey playing into the hands of their crafty under current.

    US will win but bloodied probably with half their population gone coz they are pulverised by one nuke getting through. Russia will be the same without their capital but with such vast land they will managed albeit back to past century.

    Then you all speak Mandarin … πŸ˜†

    You learn!

    The Russians didn’t loose to a technically superior enemy 70 years ago. For all their much vaunted technical ability how well did the Yanks do in Vietnam?

    The Russians could fight the Yanks to a standstill, a very hot, glassy standstill, we’d see the spine of NATO truly tested and I hate to say I think it would be found wanting.

    A war I’d only want to see in simulation, hopefully calmer minds than the STW collective will prevail in the real world.

    Be honest, you lot are all sitting in front of your computer violently fapping like silly wee boys over this aren’t you?

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    I wouldn’t compare German technical superiority with American technical superiority. American technical superiority isn’t measured in years but decades and they also have numerical superiority at sea and in the air.

    Again, like I said, unless the Russians are willing to go nuclear – Russia can’t do anything in regards to resisting American military projection.

    Be honest, you lot are all sitting in front of your computer violently fapping like silly wee boys over this aren’t you?

    It’s interesting because it’s acutely intertwined with realpolitik.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Tom_W1987 – Member

    It’s a complete myth that current ICBM’s can target carrier groups. Even then, you have to know where the group is and even with satellites that’s hard. See crashed airliners for example.

    Not a very useful comparison, that. “Look for a small thing that you weren’t especially watching, that might not actually be visible, oh and there’s loads of them basically the same” vs “Keep an eye on a damn big thing and its mates, that you can sometimes locate via google, then watch where it goes”

    Incidentally, isn’t it weird how quickly these threads descent into excitable war porn?

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    See above Northwind.

    Not a very useful comparison, that. “Look for a small thing that you weren’t especially watching, that might not actually be visible, oh and there’s loads of them basically the same” vs “Keep an eye on a damn big thing and its mates, that you can sometimes locate via google, then watch where it goes”

    Except those photos are years old, satellites pass over a small area very quickly. Then you have to guess where that carriers gone and reposition accordingly. Which is why there are rumblings that we are going back to SR-71 style spyplanes. No one, not even the yanks have managed to yet build a space based radar network that could track a carrier group. And if a shooty match occurred, that would be the first thing to go.

    The carrier will remain the single most potent non-nuclear aspect of a nations ability to project power for decades to come.

    wrecker
    Member

    Isn’t it weird how even sensible, and well presented topics/posts about conflict always results in someone shouting “war porn” even if nobody is particularly excited?

    popstar
    Member

    Tom1987, I really think your technical knowledge should be used against terrorism. Even ChuckNorris wouldn’t match your frothing and anger of proper action. Imagine, even news on telly would be more exciting with your tactical war reports.

    Syria is Russians backyard, short supply line, and scarily the Russian press is talking up use of nukes (before all this Syrian stuff).

    Anyway I’m off to bed, I think it’s best we agree to disagree as neither of us has so far convinced the other of our arguments.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Tom1987, I really think your technical knowledge should be used against terrorism. Even ChuckNorris wouldn’t match your frothing and anger of proper action. Imagine, even news on telly would be more exciting with your tactical war reports.

    I think you’ve misread me, I’ve been trying to tell people why WW3 isn’t about to happen and trying to highlight the actual game that Erdogan and Putin are playing. I’m the freaking sensible one in this thread.

    It’s all about game theory, not war-porn.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    are all sitting in front of your computer violently fapping like silly wee boys over this aren’t you?

    Definitely the minute there’s an excuse to get the top trumps out…

    Stwers get all

    jimjam
    Member

    Ming the Merciless

    Anyway I’m off to bed, I think it’s best we agree to disagree as neither of us has so far convinced the other of our arguments.

    And so it was, in that seemingly innocuous sentence, at approximately 10pm on Tuesday 24/11/2015 that Singletrackworld came as close as it ever has done, or ever would have, to reaching an agreement in a thread about politics.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Well, if you don’t want to try to understand how the world works that’s fine by me.

    Unfortunately the rest of the world outside of the EU, still only truly respects hard power – hence most of the worlds politics and conflict is defined by that power. Europeans live in a world of fluffy clouds, food security and cuddly bunnies.

    So enjoy your ignorance.

    popstar
    Member

    Kimbers +1.

    Tom1987, your words should reach God ears. No ww3 then.

    Gary_C
    Member

    Stwers get all

    Wondered where Russell Brand had got to…

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Tom_W1987 – Member

    Except those photos are years old

    What photos πŸ˜•

Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 189 total)

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