RNP – where are you, the last time I saw grass that colour was on the lawn of Windsor Castle and the pitch at Stamford Bridge

Local park in Rawtenstall – 20 mins North of Manchester in the lush Rossendale valley aka arthritis valley as it’s so bloody damp hence why the cotton and paper mills were/are here.

The beach here was mobbed yesterday (relatively, it’s the west of Scotland, it never gets that busy) and on my way past there was a fire engine just arrived to check out the smoking bin fire.

I assume someone had decided to chuck their still burning disposable BBQ into it.

Also after every sunny day the grass is covered in scorched rectangles.

I do a bit of picking up other peoples junk when I’m out with the dog but nothing compared to the team of volunteers that are out all the time clearing up. They do an amazing job.

Everyone knows better or thinks the rules don’t apply to them, we’re all guilty of it to a greater it lesser extent.

Yes that ‘principle’ applies with regards to current global warming and Holocene/Anthropocene extinction events – except these are on barely-imaginable levels of ‘hellish’, not to mention irreversible. And yet (for some reason) we don’t get so upset about that (and think the people who do get upset about it are crazy)

I assume someone had decided to chuck their still burning disposable BBQ into it.

Just as easily a cigarette, always fun when the jenga pile on top lights up 🤢

Brexit Britain innit.

Everyone else and every institution (including emergency services) can be portrayed as ‘the establishment’ if it holds up an individual from doing exactly what they want, when they want, for more than ten seconds.

I want it all, I want it now and no one is getting in MY way.

Brexit Britain innit.

I’m not convinced that it’s even that. We’ve always been surrounded by selfish arseholes, all brexit really did was shine a light into the cesspit.

My gran used to wax lyrical about how it was “different in her day” and now my generation is still saying the same today, but it’s viewing the past though pineapple-ringed spectacles. There has always been ****, there are **** today, there were **** when I was a boy and I have no doubts whatsoever that in my gran’s day there were still ****.

If there is one thing has changed over the years it’s that we’re so much better these days at going “see that bloke over there? He’s a right ****” rather than pretending that it’s perfectly normal that yon white-haired bloke with the cigar has master keys to a children’s hospital.

She used to tell me how they used to be able to go out and leave the door unlocked, “you couldn’t do that these days!” Sure nan, and just yesterday you were telling me that a typical Christmas present was a stick and an orange. What did you have worth burgling, reckon someone’s going to break in and steal your stick? You can surely leave your door wide open if your biggest threat is a particularly delinquent Labrador.

Plus ca change.

The way things are being reported you would imagine that disposable barbecues and camping stoves are the only cause of the recent fires.  I passed one at the weekend which destroyed a reported five fields worth (although of what I am not sure as they had been harvested and the majority of the straw removed).

This was reported as part of a radio feature on barbecues but the source of the fire looked to be a burnt out van parked in the middle of the first field to catch fire.  You could charitably put it down to an engine fault but it looked more likely to be down to someone taking a break in the van with the air-con on and the DPF regenning over bone dry stubble.  There are morons out there barbecuing in wildly inappropriate places but they are also getting blamed for the actions of more everyday morons.

There are morons out there barbecuing in wildly inappropriate places but they are also getting blamed for the actions of more everyday morons.

True, but unfortunately as a society, if there is something that is so easily open to abuse, even by a minority, and that abuse can potentially cause loss of life, horrific injuries, loss of property, loss of habitat and cause enormous disruption, then really we need to look at whether removing it from a place of easy access for absolutely all comers is a lesser injustice than the risk of the above.

There are of course people who will take their posh portable bbq to some stupid places, but it’s less of a thing than disposables which are much more portable and ‘throw-away’ by design.

I think disposable bbqs fall into that area where removing them completely is far less of a big deal (especially when there are great alternatives that cost a few pounds more) than continuing with the undeniable problems and danger they create just because we like to think that anyone should be allowed to have anything they want across the board.

Well the piles of rubbish left at the beach where i went for paddle board this morning was horrendous.
Bags and bags of tins, take away detritus, busted inflatable boats, all bagged up and dumped in the car park
Some mear the overflowing bins, which are emptied every couple of hours as its blue flag beach, till 5pm. Some bags obviously dumped where the cars were parked.
I was going to start gathering it together after my paddle but the bin guy beat me to it.
Last week a beach hut owner watched me getting all the rubbish together and helped by pretending i was invisible.
Some people can be proper bellends. Like at Studland where the fire brigade
had a flexi main running along the road, with no parking signs over it.
So the morons threw the signs and parked over the hose the firemen were using to put out a heath fire

Yep, disposable BBQs need to go, ludicrous that they are still around in 2022 given the damage they cause & the single-use aspect. Also, they’re atrocious for cooking on anyway!

The problem is – we live in a world where people leave tents and camping chairs behind as though they are disposable. Ban portable BBQs (presumably to be defined in some legislation as equipment in a ready to light state) and you will just have people spending £10 on some really cheap sheet metal thing (or an old quality street tin with holes in it) and a bag of charcoal. Still start a fire. Still a hazard to people and wildlife when left as litter.

The sale of them is not the problem – if I want to use one in my back garden balanced on a couple of bricks on top of the slabs, why shouldn’t I. Yes they are single use – but they have less metal waste than a typical family takeaway so that doesn’t really make sense. [Unlike Cougar I am a meat eater, but I recognise his position as we have two coeliacs in the house and trusting others not to contaminate your stuff with their cheap sausages or buns is not the most reliable – at home we have a small BBQ. Elsewhere we may not, especially if impromptu].

However a couple of observations relating to the OP:

1. In Scotland we have the offence of Wreckless Endangerment which roughly translates to being criminally stupid to the extent of risking others. I’d expect this to be used by Police Scotland if someone was having BBQ’s (frankly any solid fuel fire/BBQ regardless of whether it was disposable or not) directly on the ground. If we could spare officers to tell people to not to meet a friend outside during covid we can spare officers to tell people to not burn the country down. Like Covid you don’t really need to prosecute them all to make an impact.
2. I heard a fire fighter on the radio yesterday having a mini-rant about how could people possibly not know what their advice was yet they had had to go and put out a grass fire started by one. It struck me that I’m a politically aware, news watching person in my 40s and I had briefly seen some requests not to do this and in particular had seen some twitter noise over M&S stopping selling them, and other supermarkets being encouraged to do the same. It felt like the messaging was (a) at shops not consumers (b) in media that would be seem by “responsible older” people rather than specifically targeting the tic-tok generation and instagrammers who are probably most likely to be the BBQ party in a field type! It doesn’t mean you are not criminally stupid for not working it out yourself but if fireservice etc want to get messaging out they maybe need to think about who/how they communicate. Millenials and younger don’t watch the news or read papers.

Riding through a local, pretty village, we stopped at a red light (wow yes we actually didn’t ride through it). The woman on the bench near to me, takes one last, long drag of her fag and throws it onto the floor next to me. I said “excuse me”, I was ignored. Very loudly I shouted “excuse me could you PLEASE put that cigarette out and put it into the bin that’s next to you”. Absolute stupid, uncaring, inconsiderant, bellend. Good job this wasn’t the park down the road. That woman hated me at that moment as many people were passing and staring at her. However why am I the only one brave enough to say anything?

I’m pretty sure that those dreadful Chinese lanterns got banned, so why can’t disposable bbq’s get banned too?

Millenials and younger don’t watch the news or read papers.

In the main, the places folk are taking BBQs and making fires are approached by road, so road signs can be / are used. Folk still ignore them. Hell, I’ve seen fires lit no more than 100 metres from a sign saying “High Fire Risk – No Fires/BBQs”

really we need to look at whether removing it from a place of easy access for absolutely all comers is a lesser injustice than the risk of the above.

I admire your optimism. Look what happened when we asked people if they’d mind awfully putting a bit of cloth over their face for a few weeks rather than risk spreading an asymptomatic virus. WHAT NEXT, THE MORTAL SOULD OF MY FIRST-BORN?!

“excuse me could you PLEASE put that cigarette out and put it into the bin that’s next to you”

At the risk of a rash generalisation, and I’m sorry all you considerate smokers of whom I’m sure are legion, but this does seem to be a really common blind-spot. “Finished a cigarette, my work here is done.” There’s a small pile outside one of the neighbours’ front door literally a metre from a roadside drain. Out the back there’s another scattering of fag ends suddenly appeared which I’m sure is wholly unrelated to one of the other neighbours having building work done. That’s literally where we keep the bins, there’s a dozen of them in like a five yard radius. Just… why? It’s as though people don’t recognise it as litter, it’s “only” a cigarette butt.

I’m pretty sure that those dreadful Chinese lanterns got banned

Unfortunately not.
Wales has banned them on all public owned land.
In England quite a few councils have banned them on council owned land.
Scotland is similar to England in that any bans are at the local authority level.

However can still be sold and released on private land even in the most restricted areas.

I expect I’m going to get flamed for this

I see what you did there.
I’ve seen our moor go up and be on fire for 2 days. Ban the ****** things.

A neighbour lost their back garden last week through a blaze – the lot went poof, it back’s onto a main road – one possibility, discarded fag butt. Fire brigade were there pronto, but fence/plants went up, and the lawn.

Probably me getting older and grumpier but there does seem to be a much greater percentage of self entitled **** than there used to be. Saw it at the beach on Sunday. Carpark full? Well we’ll just abandon our vehicle on a blind bend, on a verge, on double yellows etc. Just go somewhere else or do something else you absolute staggering dickheads.

It’s as though people don’t recognise it as litter, it’s “only” a cigarette butt.

I think people generally don’t recognise litter at all, they haven’t been trained to do so. I’m trying to train my kids to see household mess (dirty dishes, clothes, food scraps etc) as something that needs to be addressed, but it’s not easy.

BBQ-shaped scorch marks on the yellow grass by a reservoir I went past this morning. Batshit-crazy.

it’s “only” a cigarette butt.

Nasty things

had a flexi main running along the road, with no parking signs over it.
So the morons threw the signs and parked over the hose the firemen were using to put out a heath fire

Local farmer and a telehandler, suitable warning signs, cars will be removed with forklift/telehander/thing with grabby attachment.

I’m pretty sure that those dreadful Chinese lanterns got banned, so why can’t disposable bbq’s get banned too?

if they have been banned it doesn’t seem to work as I still frequently see posts from farmer types complaining about finding them in fields etc. So either you can order on line anyway so banning just hurts the local retailer or there’s instructions how to make one from a tea lights and some garden wire on line? They may be less popular now though – but can you really imagine BBQs becoming less popular? Will people just light open fires?

Probably me getting older and grumpier but there does seem to be a much greater percentage of self entitled **** than there used to be. Saw it at the beach on Sunday. Carpark full? Well we’ll just abandon our vehicle on a blind bend, on a verge, on double yellows etc. Just go somewhere else or do something else you absolute staggering dickheads.

There may be more entitlement but I think it is at least in part perception.
In the 80’s I grew up in a street that had not been design with parking in mind. When the fire brigade got called (gosh that was actually much more often than now – I guess smoking and chip pans?) they would approach from opposite ends of the street because they knew nobs would have blocked it with bad parking. When the engine got stuck the crew would get out and bounce the obstructing vehicles out the way – neighbours would come out to help. I remember this 5 or 6 times it was great to watch as child! by the time the first car was bounced other idiots had usually moved theirs but they never learned not to park there. On one occasion the fire brigade came to a fire at about 3am with persons reported. They didn’t waste time trying to bounce the car’s out the way – they just smashed them out with the fire engine. Within a year those idiots who were crunched were back parking in the same place directly outside their house again. I recall the fire engine being outside our house for a couple of hours (I can’t remember why), and the next door neighbour going to shout at the senior officer about the blue lights upsetting her dog!

At the risk of a rash generalisation, and I’m sorry all you considerate smokers of whom I’m sure are legion, but this does seem to be a really common blind-spot

It’s an odd one! I’ve got a couple of mates, who in all other respects are kind and thoughtful and environmentally minded, but invite them round for the evening and although they’ll politely go outside to smoke, after they’ve gone you’ll see half a dozen fag butts on the patio floor or windowsill. They just don’t see them!

but can you really imagine BBQs becoming less popular? Will people just light open fires?

Making a camp fire takes a bit more effort and thought.

Tossing a match in to a tin tray pre-filled with parafin infused charcoal for £3.99 from your local supermarket, not so much.

I don’t think banning disposable BBQs will solve the issue, but I suspect it might go a long way to curbing it.

It’s an odd one! I’ve got a couple of mates, who in all other respects are kind and thoughtful and environmentally minded, but invite them round for the evening and although they’ll politely go outside to smoke, after they’ve gone you’ll see half a dozen fag butts on the patio floor or windowsill. They just don’t see them!

I smoke, but not in the house, in the back garden, and that irritates me too.. had a friend over and they stubbed one out on the wall of the house…

..I almost flipped, I was like…”there’s litteraly an ashtray 3 feet away from you, you know the one you litterally just watched me stub mine out in”…

A lady in my roady club got glassed last night on an evening ride.
Chavved up Corsa containing scum threw 2 glasses of liquid, possibly Jagermeister at her. One smashed on the fork and the wheel rotated the glass into her hand.
WTaf is wrong with people . I guess they know they wont get caught. Its funny at the time, if your 17, and stupid. Police probably wont do anything, no video on the bike, no reg number so very low chance of successful prosecutions.
Car culture needs some serious questions asking about the use and regulation of vehicles and drivers.

Car culture needs some serious questions asking about the use and regulation of vehicles and drivers.

I agree.
But asking for routine re-tests, absolutely no excuses for totting up bans, introduction of mandatory bans for incidents involving drivers or cars with multiple issues (e.g. untaxed and no MOT) and a tax system on cars like Denmark has is not a popular view among the car owners of the UK.

There may be more entitlement but I think it is at least in part perception.
In the 80’s I grew up in a street that had not been design with parking in mind. When the fire brigade got called (gosh that was actually much more often than now – I guess smoking and chip pans?) they would approach from opposite ends of the street because they knew nobs would have blocked it with bad parking.

Must’ve been posh near you in the eighties 😀 there were about three cars on our entire street! Probably seems more prevalent now as there are more cars than people.

Car culture needs some serious questions asking about the use and regulation of vehicles and drivers.

Not sure that’s anything to do with car culture as opposed to dickhead culture, of which a good many are car drivers.

It’s legal to possess air rifle, crossbow, catapult, laser pen (restricted power unless you’re naughty and buy unregulated)
Using them on chavs should be totally legal and encouraged.

Chavved up Corsa … Police probably wont do anything, no video on the bike, no reg number so very low chance of successful prosecutions…

Ideally you get a cop who is as upset about this as people here would be and realises that there is a rather small pool of Corsa’s still on the road; narrow it down by colour and even the vaguest of driver descriptions and I’d almost put money on it that the local road policing team can ID the offender from that. They may not get enough confidence to prosecute – but plenty of drivers say more than they need to when confronted.

Must’ve been posh near you in the eighties 😀 there were about three cars on our entire street!

I believe estate agents would have described it as up and coming! I looked at an advert recently which described it as “a well connected area with unusually affordable housing” which I think is estate agent speak for “no longer up and coming”!

It’s legal to possess air rifle, crossbow, catapult, laser pen (restricted power unless you’re naughty and buy unregulated)
Using them on chavs should be totally legal and encouraged.

It’s exactly that sort of witty comment you get in newspaper comments feeds just swapping chav for cyclist. No need to feed a class war by victimising anyone who doesn’t meet your social expectations.

poly – not a witty comment; more a statement.

Humans have always dropped rubbish and lived surrounded by their own detritus and filth. That’s why archaeologists have such rich pickings in caves. The difference is we now have too many people doing it, and too much stuff that doesn’t break down. People have to be trained not to be assholes (and even recognise what constitutes asshole behaviour).

I’ve just moved from South Wales to Calderdale. A few reasons, but one was the apocalyptic, almost geological scale of the littering where I was in Wales – unbearable, and completely outwith the ability of individuals like myself and others to get on top of. It’s not as bad here, but on a ride on Monday, the parking area above Lumb Hole Waterfall was a wasteland of sh!te. I’ll be going back with a bag and grabber because, well, just because.

But it’s hopeless. As a species we’ve hit a tipping point, that moment in time where the water slowly swirling round the drain suddenly vanishes down the plughole with a gurgling noise.

ber

My parents (in their middle 80s) live about 1 mile from that blaze. They have always gone out with various neighbours in the evening over the past few years wiith watering cans plus bottles of water and put out still smoldering bbqs and home made fires. I guess they missed this one.

I for one applaud them!

Ideally you get a cop who is as upset about this as people here would be and realises that there is a rather small pool of Corsa’s still on the road;

A nice theory, hampered only by the fact there are tens of thousands of corsas still on the road. They have been in production for a long time and still are…

Agreed
I think a few guys from the club live very close and are going to do a CCTV sweep of the immediate area . Knock on a few doors to see if anyones door camera has picked anything up. Trouble is they will all be greyed out as it was full dark outside . If they can get the locations of traffic cameras this may give the local police a head start and cut down the search time.

That’s why archaeologists have such rich pickings in caves. The difference is we now have too many people doing it, and too much stuff that doesn’t break down.

I think I see a flaw here.

 the parking area above Lumb Hole Waterfall was a wasteland of sh!te

It’s a popular spot with the kids. I did the same thing you’re doing now. It calms down when the weather turns