Supreme Leader’s plans…

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  • Supreme Leader’s plans…
  • *Pulls up a chair*

    Right then, folks, I’ve got some lovely Earl Grey for the cognoscenti, Tetley Everyday for the proles and some lovely Duchy Originals Lemon shortbread.

    no milk in mine thanks

    uplink
    Member

    I’ll take a mug of Tetley’s please CFH – any penguin biscuits?

    Premier Icon Flaperon
    Subscriber

    I can donate an out-of-date KitKat to the cause if its any help.

    Sorry about ranting on like that, think I came over a bit strong. Been really getting me down a bit over the last week or two, beginning to wonder if I’ll ever find a way out of the hole.

    Premier Icon MrOvershoot
    Subscriber

    He told MPs that, from January, everyone under 25 years old who has been unemployed for a year would get a guaranteed job, work experience or training place – and by “next spring” would have the “obligation to accept that guaranteed offer” or face having their benefits cut

    You just have to wonder on what planet the backroom bod who thought that one up lives?

    No milk in my EG if you please and those lemon shortbreads are delicious

    trailmonkey
    Member

    I’m with the OP on this. I think the PM should be his personal careers officer, seeing as he’s made such an effort to educate himself.

    Get with the programme Gordon.

    hmmmm do I see a tunnocks tea cake

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    cant see what the problem is

    if you are claiming benefit now, surely you would be better with any job rather than sitting around watching jeremy kyle

    it wont stop you from applying for any jobs that you’d like to make more permanent and give you some good life experience outside of white collar office/ cockpit job

    out of intrest have you turned down any jobs youve been offered?

    Premier Icon Flaperon
    Subscriber

    Don’t get me wrong, kimbers, I’d take any job offered to me and I haven’t turned one down because no-one’s offered one yet.

    The vast majority of companies (whole range from airlines to schools to local shops) aren’t even replying to applications… I mean, I even included SAEs in the envelopes etc. At this point I don’t know whether it’s me or a simple lack of jobs. Me, probably. 🙂

    I just can’t see how the scheme is going to work. I already try to fill my time with some voluntary work, but obviously there are only so many places locally and driving even 25 miles/day chews through money faster than you’d believe.

    zokes
    Member

    I’ll be 26 by then, so I guess when my PostDoc runs out I’d better just sit on the dole [shakes head]

    If he’d not wasted spent all the public money on banks, perhaps there’d be more for researching important things like the effect of climate change etc….

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    after i finished uni i spent 6 months working in sh!tehole factories before i got my nice cushy graduate job
    every time i have a hard day now, i know that im better off than i was then

    if there are no jobs of any kind then surely gordons plan is a good one coz hes gonna guarantee you a job of some sort

    trailmonkey
    Member

    if there are no jobs of any kind then surely gordons plan is a good one coz hes gonna guarantee you a job of some sort

    No, no, no. In STW land GB is a naughty man who thinks that clever people should do prole work when times are hard. The thought of it.

    jonb
    Member

    That’s going to be fun for graduates expecting a well paying job after taking out a student loan to fund their studies. No doubt the job will be minimum wage.

    I’m intrigued as to what they will be doing.

    uplink
    Member

    I’m intrigued as to what they will be doing.

    trailmonkey
    Member

    I know that man. He’s a quantum physicist.

    Kieran
    Member

    another said that they wouldn’t employ anyone who couldn’t promise to stay for more than a couple of years.

    I think this is more your problem, can I ask why you wouldn’t be able to stay in a job for more than two years?

    Trimix
    Member

    I think out of the last 20 jobs ive applied for about 2 have wrote/emailed/phoned to say Id not got the job. The rest didnt bother. That includes the ones I had interviews with.

    In the last recession a mate of mine who was a Dr in Global Warming ended up on a government training session to be a plumber !

    Moses
    Member

    Dear Flaperon,
    Employers and agencies will lie to you.
    They will lie about how soon they will call you back.
    They will lie about the nature of the job.
    They will lie about the pay and benefits, the prospects, the security of the company they are interviewing you for.

    So lie right back. Not as in “take it up the jaksi”, but as in, tell’em what they want to hear.

    So, instead of saying that you will eff off and do something different after a few monhts, tell ’em you intend to work there forever, and want to rise up their own corporate ladder.

    That way, you may find something suitable for you.

    Good luck, chum.

    :0)

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    im a biochemist and my agency placed me in a coffee factory, a paracetamol factory an airline food factory and a nappy factory, as well as doing a similar job working for the council as pictured above though it was mowing parks and trimmimmg council foliage, this involved quite a lot of rubbish/junk/ shopping trolleyt removal

    bizarely the council stuff was the most fun if only coz it was outside
    i also did similar jobs in my summer hols
    imho every graduate should be made to sweat their asses off in some crappy minimum wage job just so they realise how lucky they are when they get their nice aircon office with a canteen rather than a smoking room (and having to eat your lunch there!)

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    I want to know what his policy is on what 58/59 year olds do when they get put out of a job.

    RudeBoy
    Member

    Can I have Coke and Wagon Wheels?

    PLEEEEEAAASEEE?????!!?!

    [img]http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00452/WAGON_384x250_452654a.jpg[/img]

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    I want to know what his policy is on what 58/59 year olds do when they get put out of a job
    free botox?

    Premier Icon Flaperon
    Subscriber

    Nice to know that Comrade Brown is still alive and has turned for work at least one day this week. Just read this proposal:

    He told MPs that, from January, everyone under 25 years old who has been unemployed for a year would get a guaranteed job, work experience or training place – and by “next spring” would have the “obligation to accept that guaranteed offer” or face having their benefits cut

    Can’t wait to see how this is going to affect me, since I’m under 25 and actually hold a full commercial pilot’s license, a physics/computer science degree, and so far have been turned down for every single job I’ve applied for. Well, I say turned down, only 2 companies ever wrote back to let me know. One was kind enough to interview me but told me that I was over-qualified for the role, and another said that they wouldn’t employ anyone who couldn’t promise to stay for more than a couple of years.

    Does he think that everyone under 25 who doesn’t have a job is enjoying having made a total ****-up of their life? ****.

    zokes
    Member

    Well, the government’s policy has been that everyone should go through university, and take on eye-watering debt – possibly getting students and alumni into very bad habits of living with debt. Being forced to take out a student loan for what was ‘free’ a few years ago, and then doing sufficiently well to get a PhD afterwards, then a research position, I’m buggered if I’m working in a sweatshop for less than I’d get on the dole + benefits. I know that may sound up my own arse, but frankly I don’t give a crap. Perhaps if they cancelled the £15k that will still hang over me from the SLC whilst I’m doing said medial job, I’d be more inclined….

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    free botox?

    That youtube thing would suggest he’s already had it.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    possibly getting students and alumni into very bad habits of living with debt.

    What are you on about? Debt is of course a very good thing – not only is our whole society founded on it, but it would appear that Gordon thinks the country has nowhere near enough of it yet.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    zokes well and truly up your own arse

    aP
    Member

    That’s going to be fun for graduates expecting a well paying job after taking out a student loan to fund their studies. No doubt the job will be minimum wage.

    Well if they’re architecture students they know what this is like already.

    zokes
    Member

    kimbers – Member

    zokes well and truly up your own arse

    Thank you. But as my SLC debt is the fault of labour (either that or I didn’t go to uni), and the lack of funding for scientific research in the UK is also Labour’s fault, I’m somewhat at a loss as to why I should be forced to do a job I could have started 10 years ago, and saved myself a hell of a lot of money along the way.

    FWIW, I have indeed worked in some absolute $hitholes as a 6th-former and undergrad to keep my head above water, so I’m aware of what’s involved, and was happy to do it at the time, but when I have the option of just about surviving on the dole but having free time to carry on writing papers / grant applications, or sweating my arse off in a factory and just about scraping a living, leaving me totally devoid of any energy to write anything in the evenings, I know which I’ll be choosing. In the long run, it’s a lot more constructive to the economy to have me essentially working for free but on the dole, than taking someone else’s job on the production line.

    Up my arse? Maybe…

    Sensibly planning on trying to keep my early career afloat? Definitely….

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    it seems likely then that without labours push to get people to uni you would never have gone? would you have preferred that, really?

    I cant argue about the funding aspect 12 years as a scientist on a rolling 1 or 3 year contract at best have always managed to be in work but very stressful and often last minute notice that my position would be renewed.
    I dont know if you can blame any one government, academic funding has always been terrible in this country

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber
    zokes
    Member

    it seems likely then that without labours push to get people to uni you would never have gone? would you have preferred that, really?

    I doubt it – I would suspect I’d have qualified for the old-style maintenance grant. Given my whole family’s attitude that I ‘must’ go to university (one that i’m very grateful of), I’d had thought that one way or the other I would have gone, just with a lot less debt! (Bizarrely, my 6th form wanted me to go to oxbridge – not quite sure why!)

    uplink
    Member

    Didn’t the Tories kick off the whole tuition fee thing – Dearing report or something
    Labour were then elected & acted on it – Something like that

    You can be pretty sure the Tories would have introduced them too – had they been around

    zokes
    Member

    You can be pretty sure the Tories would have introduced them too – had they been around

    Well, I guess we’ll have it all to look forward to again, saving an attempt at iranianesque democracy by Herr Brown. Either that, or a hung parliament, when nothing at all will happen.

    To quote The Who:

    “Meet the new boss,
    Same as the old boss”

    trailmonkey
    Member

    but when I have the option of just about surviving on the dole but having free time to carry on writing papers / grant applications, or sweating my arse off in a factory and just about scraping a living, leaving me totally devoid of any energy to write anything in the evenings, I know which I’ll be choosing

    And I’m happy to subsidise that act of self sacrifice on your part. If there’s anything else I can do for you, please feel free to help yourself.

    zokes
    Member

    And I’m happy to subsidise that act of self sacrifice on your part. If there’s anything else I can do for you, please feel free to help yourself.

    Very kind of you. You are making the assumption that I’m not currently, and have not previously paid any form of national insurance or tax (income, council, VAT and fuel duty etc). Now perhaps you’d like a hand down from that high horse of yours?

    EDIT: In fact, just this year I reckon I’ll have paid more than £8k on income tax / NI, pretty much £3k on VAT, another £1k on fuel duty, and £800 on council tax. That c.£13k would allow me to live quite happily for about 2 years being very frugal. I accept that my taxes go to more than just other peoples’ income support, like invading other countries, jobsworth yet useless PCSOs etc, buying failing banks…

    trailmonkey
    Member

    You are making the assumption that I’m not currently, and have not previously paid any form of national insurance or tax (income, council, VAT and fuel duty etc). Now perhaps you’d like a hand down from that high horse of yours?

    On the contrary, I’m working on the assumption that you feel justified in claiming the dole when you could be working. Everyone should contribute, it’s your duty, you shouldn’t be receiving special privileges for it. The elevated equestrianism is all yours.

    zokes
    Member

    The elevated equestrianism is all yours.

    I like!

    On the contrary, I’m working on the assumption that you feel justified in claiming the dole when you could be working.

    Well, I work at present, and hope to continue to do so, but at my early stage of a career, I drop off the face of the scientific world for a couple of years as I’m trapped in shift work at the local abattoir, that’s where I’ll stay for good, earning NMW and contributing one hell of a lot less than if for 6 months I live off benefits, and by using my time well, forge a future successful career. From that career, not only would I pay considerably more taxes and NI, but I’d also have more spending power, meaning more VAT and better support of the economy. Heck, seeing as it’s environmental science I work in, I may even produce some work worth immeasurably more than the sum of its parts, but then that is cloud cuckoo land territory…

    Back to your high horse: If you were in my situation – contract up shortly and no chance of renewal thanks to the dire state of research funding, but:

    a) you see a possible chance for effectively an unpaid sabbatical to write bids and papers in the hope that YOU MAKE WORK OFF YOUR OWN BACK, as opposed to relying on tenured staff to bring the money in. Thereby ensuring your future employment whilst demonstrating your ability to do it off your own back with a little bit of dinner money from Gordon and Alastair. Or,

    b) Despite the promise your career had, you decide that you can’t possibly take state benefits for what is hopefully a short period of time, so seek out a menial job paying on the balance of it, less than you would get in benefits. As this job requires long hours of physical work, you are unable to focus on your own personal career development, search for new jobs, or write up your research. Before you know it, a couple of years pass, by which time you’re so far behind with the latest developments in your field of science, and as a result stand no chance of getting your career back on track. This means that you’ll continue to contribute very little to the economy, and will probably end up on the dole anyway when said abattoir / factory etc shuts down. In the mean time, you will have wasted a chance given to you by the fortune of your education to better yourself and really pay your way in society and progress your field, whilst blocking a job that could have been held by someone initially more suited to the role.

    Difficult choice that one…

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    Didn’t the Tories kick off the whole tuition fee thing

    Isn’t it all Facha’s fault?

    Though in reality, isn’t the tuition fee thing at least partly related to a desire to have 50% of the population going to uni (given the rise in dropout rates I presume the target is people starting, not finishing), which wouldn’t appear to be a tory thing.

    uplink
    Member

    Isn’t it all Facha’s fault?

    No – I believe it must have been Edwina’s play thing

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