super glue instead of loctite – will I die?

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  • super glue instead of loctite – will I die?
  • Premier Icon aracer
    Member

    I use to be an engineer specialised in threaded fasteners.

    Really? Because this is the sort of stuff I’d expect from somebody dosed up on cycling folklore rather than a professional:

    Always clean the thread before doing it back up. Ensure there is no thin oil on the thread and tighten to the specified torque. If the thread is dirty, even if it reach the specified torque, the clamping force will be low and it might come loose. If the thread is oily, it will be over tightened and damage your components.

    Now I might not have ever had a job where I had to get the right tension in threaded fasteners, however I am aware of the normal procedures used in industry (by those who actually know what they’re doing). You appear to suggest that a dry thread is better than a lubricated one, when it is common knowledge that lubrication reduces the torque-tension scatter you get with dry threads because of the large variation in the friction. The correct quoted torque value should always be for a lubricated thread as that gives far better repeatability of tension – if necessary that torque value should be lower than for a theoretical dry thread to account for the decreased friction.

    What’s more you then compound that by suggesting ensuring there is no oil on the thread without detailing how you do that. The typical wipe of an oily thread with a cloth/rag leaves a thin film of oil which provides much the same lubricating effect under high torque/tension as a well oiled thread.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Member

    …but I did realise that amongst all this engineer waving, nobody had remembered to point out one fundamental to the OP.

    Yes, you will die. Even loctite won’t prevent that.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Just tighten it up extra mega tight so it won’t come undone. Stand on the allen key.

    Premier Icon nicholas_yiu
    Subscriber

    Now I might not have ever had a job where I had to get the right tension in threaded fasteners, however I am aware of the normal procedures used in industry (by those who actually know what they’re doing). You appear to suggest that a dry thread is better than a lubricated one, when it is common knowledge that lubrication reduces the torque-tension scatter you get with dry threads because of the large variation in the friction. The correct quoted torque value should always be for a lubricated thread as that gives far better repeatability of tension – if necessary that torque value should be lower than for a theoretical dry thread to account for the decreased friction.

    What’s more you then compound that by suggesting ensuring there is no oil on the thread without detailing how you do that. The typical wipe of an oily thread with a cloth/rag leaves a thin film of oil which provides much the same lubricating effect under high torque/tension as a well oiled thread.

    Most critical bolts are of course tightened wet. Thread oiled, dried between washer and seating face and wet again between washer on bolt head. Standard procedure.

    Don’t forget we are talking about bolts going onto bicycles here which will be designed to be tightened dry. The torque specified by the manufacturer will be dry torque as well. I will be surprised if you haven’t cause damage on your bike if you lube the threads/seating face and do them up to the specific torque!

    The torque value for wet/dry thread is very different. Doing a wet joint up to dry torque will most likely cause damage.

    For me, clean = oil free, perhaps I should have made that a bit clearer? I suggest copper slip anyway.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Member

    Don’t forget we are talking about bolts going onto bicycles here which will be designed to be tightened dry.

    Really? Shimano bolts don’t generally come dry, so that seems unlikely. You’re just reverse engineering cycling mythology there.

    I will be surprised if you haven’t cause damage on your bike if you lube the threads/seating face and do them up to the specific torque!

    Nope – never damaged anything by overtorquing, despite lubing all fastenings. Even if torque specs are for dry bolts (which seems unlikely), I’m sure there’s a substantial safety margin allowed for ham fisted mechanics on most cycling parts.

    Oh, and here’s a tech note from the company one of my most torque critical parts is made by – a company you’d think knows what they’re talking about http://www.syntace.com/misc/popup/detail.cfm?pk=1211

    orangeboy
    Member

    That link for syntace is nothing todo with bolt torque or thread locking compounds
    Never ever put that assembly paste stuff on a thread

    Premier Icon aracer
    Member

    Read the bit at the bottom, orangeboy

    Premier Icon buck53
    Subscriber

    Can open… Worms everywhere…

    I grease those bolts and nip them up by hand without a torque wrench. They’ve never come loose in all the time I’ve had HT-2 cranks, so maybe 4 or 5 years. You’ll be fine without threadlock or superglue. The only things I’d threadlock on a bike would be the fasteners holding the suspension pivots together.
    Ex bike mechanic FWIW, and 15 years designing equipment for the oil industry πŸ˜‰

    Premier Icon Speshpaul
    Subscriber

    i wipe all the bolts i use on my cock before fitting and as he is such a big fella i can wipe loads of bolts up and down his huge size. You should try that, but your cock won’t be as big as mine.

    i find the feathers get in to the threads really well.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    So doing everything up so it’s just short of ‘stripped’ on my torque wrench is a bad idea?

    Should I be aiming for Real Tight in future?

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    Just do it up until it strips, then back it off quarter of a turn. Job done πŸ™‚

    +1 Stop just short of stripped is perfect πŸ˜€

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    (I need to find who makes that grease as it is very good).

    Err… Shimano. It is good, not cheap, but I’ve had a tube for a couple of years! Comes in a workshop tub if you go through lots. About Β£50 though.

    There’s a lot of people on this thread claiming to e engineers, but how many are proper engineers with their own parking space ? That’s what I want to know.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I notice the sign saying ‘Software’ immediately above has been removed.

    bigyinn
    Member

    It did say “light” on the removed sign, but due to events yesterday he’s been downgraded.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    It did say “light” on the removed sign, but due to events yesterday he’s been downgraded.

    πŸ™‚

    “MTG – Prince of Darkness”

    Premier Icon Speshpaul
    Subscriber

    In what alternative reality would a Software engineer get their own parking place?

    Luminous
    Member

    Yes, you will die. Even loctite won’t prevent that.

    Precisely, so perhaps its not an issue of whether the OP will die.
    But rather, who will be to blame ?

    legend
    Member

    Thread lock is only useful if you haven’t torque your bolts up properly.

    I’m definitely dropping that into an email to the Head of Clanky Engineering today.

    Speshpaul – Member
    In what alternative reality would a Software engineer get their own parking place?

    One I hope to never visit *shudders*

    bigyinn
    Member

    The way this post is degrading, thread lock is likely to happen shortly….. πŸ˜†

    Premier Icon sv
    Subscriber

    Grammar engineer to this thread please…

    Oh sorry !.

    brakes
    Member

    I follow a strict routine when replacing bolts that ensures consistent tightening of threaded fasteners.
    I wipe the offending article on my shorts, maybe add a bit of spit to penetrate the filth, dip it in a pot of contaminated grease, swirl the grease over the thread with a finger then tighten back up until my knuckles turn from red to a little bit white, or until the allen hole has rounded off so no more torque can be applied.

    orangeboy
    Member

    Opps teach me read the whole page

    Premier Icon FuzzyWuzzy
    Subscriber

    Just use half the number of bolts and twice the torque, saves it coming undone…

    IA
    Member

    Do it up however you like, if it falls out use threadlock next time?*

    *may not be the safest approach, but is realistic πŸ˜‰

    Premier Icon Del
    Subscriber

    Wookie Spaff. accept no substitutes.

    orangeboy
    Member

    Opps teach me read the whole page

    Luminous
    Member

    Wookie Spaff
    😯

    ndthornton
    Member

    For gods sake – just man-up and tighten the damn bolts! – Your fist is the ultimate torqe wrench – just watch out for them darn Fox 36 pinch bolts. Safe torque for these is tighten 3 turns then back off 4 – remove – throw in the bin and buy something else.

    Nick – Bronze Swimming Certificate

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