Er, i DID buy a house on a similar wage!

Fair enough, it was before prices went stupid and the house was only £33’000 (now priced at 3 times that) but it was a viable option – i’m still here after all.
My Mortgage is paid weekly and is £35 per week 🙂

A refuse engineer can empty the bins.

Engineering ain’t all that 🙂

What is an engineer though – the guy who sits behind the desk all day designing the equipment – but ime doesnt know how to put it together . The guy who can take a drawing and turn it into reality ? The guy who can put a system of ready designed parts together to solve a problem ?

Or simply the guy who given a problem can supply a safe , long term solution to fit the criteria and regulations ?

Combination of the first and last. The second is a technician.

RichPenny – I’ve come across a few who I would say were genuine ‘engineers’ (i.e. understood the physics and materials science behind what they were doing) without an engineering degree, however they generally did have degrees in maths or physics.

Combination of the first and last. The second is a technician

+1

however we are digressing…..

Has anyone applied?

FWIW I’ve also interviewed graduates who appear to have already forgotten everything they learnt on their degree.

I usually forget everything I learned in a unit within hours of taking the final exam, let alone after completing the whole thing.

What is an engineer though – blah blah blah

wel that’s obvious innit..!

Some snowy loveless, Happy xmas all 🙂

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI3GbYu6C1A[/video]

What is an engineer though – the guy who sits behind the desk all day designing the equipment – but ime doesnt know how to put it together . The guy who can take a drawing and turn it into reality ? The guy who can put a system of ready designed parts together to solve a problem ?

Or simply the guy who given a problem can supply a safe , long term solution to fit the criteria and regulations ?

Hmm, it’s an interesting one. I understand an ‘engineer’ to be someone to come up with a safe, working solution to a particular problem I spose.

In my neighbour’s case, not knowing that you can’t weld titanium to a steel alloy, and not even knowing that titanium is in fact a completely different metal to steel, is something that would negate his claims to be an ‘engineer’.

He was in fact a Boilermaker/Welder. I think the term ‘engineer’ sounds more ‘important’, hence his use of it. An ‘engineer’ is a more prestigious role than a ‘mere’ welder.

But if I had an ‘engineering’ problem I needed solving, he’d not be someone I’d go to, as he does not in any way have the skills and knowledge required. Hence, he’s not an ‘engineer’.

But maybe his definition is one that’s outdated, and that the current definition involves more extensive knowledge than what was required previously. I dunno.

I went to uni, got a degree, and I’ll be actively discouraging my kids from doing the same until they’ve got a trade under their belt.

Now thats a good idea brucewee

I went to uni, got a degree, and I’ll be actively discouraging my kids from doing the same until they’ve got a trade under their belt.

AWESOME

Btw muddy – was that 2 years ago ? The mere fact you mention it was before prices went mental suggests maybe 10/20 years ago maybe

Horses for courses when it comes to education. For some perspective I spent 4 years as an undergrad in medical school, 3 years at Uni for Biomedical science degree, 4 years in Entry Medicine and MRCS and now at least 6 years before I can consult. I’m 30 and feel like I’ve just started out.

I haven’t slept in 12 years.

What constitutes a ‘trade’ though? is not Graphic Design a ‘trade’?

I certainly do think there ought to be more vocational training type stuff in schools; woodwork, metalwork, even stuff like needlework and that. Why not? They’re all good skills.

There does seem to be too much emphasis on education for service industries. I wish I’d bin taught woodwork and that at school, as I’d possibly be a bit better developed in a field I’m blindly stumbling into at the moment.

Have to say though; the practical skills I’ve learnt I’ve pretty much taught myself, and for what I’m doing, that’s fine. It’s the actual design bit, the ability to come up with the ideas, that’s where the education stuff is invaluable. The knowledge of different styles and forms of design are what give me what I’d consider my own ‘edge’; what differentiates my work from that of others.

Truth is we don’t make enough stuff ourselves anymore. All too automated and instantly disposable. So wasteful. 🙁

I haven’t slept in 12 years.

That’s probbly beacuse you’ve bin shit-faced on drugs and booze all the time though. 😉

Trail Rat – bought the house December 2000 so eleven yrs ago now. I certainly couldn’t have bought a house on that wage now!

I do think some folk on here live in a bubble, i don’t earn a lot – a pittance by some peoples claims on here – but i own my own home, have 5K worth of bikes in the kitchen, a few grand in the bank, can afford a couple of holidays a year (Ciclo Montana trip etc) and have no debts apart from my mortgage.

have 5K worth of bikes in the kitchen

You pauper! 😆

But maybe his definition is one that’s outdated, and that the current definition involves more extensive knowledge than what was required previously.

No – being an engineer has always required you to know more than how to weld. As you identified, he calls himself that because it sounds more impressive. In the distant past, it didn’t involve a degree, but still involved high levels of knowledge and skill (in the distant past you didn’t need a degree to be a doctor either).

I would say a trade is something where there is a regulatory body that requires you to have done a certain number of courses and worked a certain number of hours before you can be called a time served whatever.

For example, mechanics, aircraft techs, electricians, plumbers, NDT techs, etc.

Problem is that there just aren’t that many apprenticeships available. If you happen to have the grades to go to uni then it almost makes it more difficult to get one which is a real shame.

i don’t earn a lot – a pittance by some peoples claims on here – but i own my own home, have 5K worth of bikes in the kitchen,

If you earned a decent wage, you’d be able to keep the 5k of bikes in a specially designed storage facility.

i don’t earn a lot – a pittance by some peoples claims on here – but i own my own home, have 5K worth of bikes in the kitchen,

If you earned a decent wage, you’d be able to keep the 5k of bikes in a specially designed storage facility.
Perhaps he earns so much he keeps them all in the West Wing of his kitchen? 🙂

DS – the silly thing is, i have HUGE garage, i just don’t feel they are secure in there! Mind you, in the New Year i’m having one of those steel cycle security cabinets put into the garage.

That’s probbly beacuse you’ve bin shit-faced on drugs and booze all the time though.

Absolutely. That’s what I meant.

Fred – for £45k, I’d rather she went travelling the world for a couple of years. Far more educational and rewarding than spending 5 years getting shitfaced, smoking weed and attending dubious parties.

Being £45k in debt only matters if you’re ever going to pay it back. I’d be very happy if someone would offer me a loan on the same terms.

Absolutely. That’s what I meant.

😆

Excellent. Taxpayers’ money not wasted after all, then?

tbh 15.6k in Tod is okay.. product only comes out once in a month of sundays, cheap as chips to live locally, shops and a lidl close by chuck in a morrisons ( no banana soreen though) cracking market clean swimming pool, nice established employer,
if i was starting out my hand would be up like a shot..

Excellent. Taxpayers’ money not wasted after all, then?

If I only save one life…. Then it probably wasn’t worth it to be honest.

Don’t think the term ‘Engineer’ necessarily means you should be an ace in the workshop, although you’d hope an engineer would at least know what they were talking about. So I’d say Adrian Newey (for example) is an engineer but he wouldn’t be the first person I’d ask to weld a bike frame up for me.

A foot in the door is a foot in the door, **** the salary, better than doing a degree then pushing trolleys around waitrose car park like a lot of graduates end up doing.

My first graduate job paid £18.5k, a pittance compared to the fee I was earning the partners, but it was valuable experience, after two years I was earning double, after a few more years it’s now a lot more.

If I was to be picky I could have waited and ended up stuck in a dead end job in a call centre earning bugger all and moaning about it on the Internet like someone posted on here the other week after doing a computing degree and not managing to get a job.

It’s a small fortune to pay for what they’ll probably get, some halfwit out of Uni that can’t spell will have little idea of the real world and its costs and deadlines.

If it were down south it would be an internship with folk queing up to pay for the experience, they’re very generous imv.

We used to use students from the very best college in St Gallon Switzerland, they’d come over, work a year just for board and keep and we’d learn stacks from them. Their typography was streets ahead of anything we were into.

So for that job the queue should stretch all the way down here and the lucky applicant should be prepared to work their balls off – but they wont, they’ll expect all the usual bullshit brit employees want and get that bit of lead on a string swinging..

Have to say I was amazed at how low that job was offering – our in house designed (similar skill set, but not junior) was on £45k, but that’s Cambridge wages for you…

As for University, I only went as I knew I had to get a degree to get the sort of job I wanted, it was a ticket you had to have to become an Engineer. NB My starting salary after graduating was £14,500 (1991).

Don’t think the term ‘Engineer’ necessarily means you should be an ace in the workshop, although you’d hope an engineer would at least know what they were talking about.

If they’re a fully trained engineer (as required to be chartered) they should have spent some time in a workshop, so know which end of a welding torch to hold, how to use machine tools etc. I had 3 months of workshop practice as part of my training (though I wouldn’t be the first person I’d ask to weld up a bike frame 😉 ). This is a point folks seem to miss when they grumble about graduate engineers with no practical skills (that will be the ones not yet fully trained – though I did my workshop skills straight out of school before uni).

that nearly as much as me working in engineering for 20yrs the moneys shite thats why they cant make many to take it up

You know what you get if you pay your designer £15.6k per year? Dirt magazine.

I have always thought some people have that knack some don’t

I had 3 months of workshop practice as part of my training

Blimey, i spent 4 years turning, milling, grinding and forming all manner of bits for my tutors steam traction engine!!

yeah the majority of the engineers i work with on a daily basis are mostly great theoretical engineers and useless in practical engineering applications, to the point where they can’t assemble their own hardware :S

i’m actually an industrial designer, saw the add for the designer job, and as soon as i saw the salary closed the window. That’s about 13k below what i was earning before i went back to finish my masters, and even then i was on an agency and not earning the normal amount.

Having said that, northern salary is generally lower than the south, and it’s a graphic design position.

I asked the question as my role is operations engineer

Its a mix of technical support , running equipment offshore when we are short of folk/ i want extra money , building and testing new equipment and being the field focal point for engineering to bounce ideas off – i do have input into the design work of componants but only as much as discussing i dont actually have to do the design work or the calcs

My engineering comes when creating proceedures for the new equipment to be run through maths , theory ,proven techniques and testing.

Am i an engineer – imeche seems to think so but i have not really engineered anything … Some would argue im a glorified technician with a degree. Its a battlei have with my self on a monthly basis ……..

Oh and pinches i know that feeling – some of our lot didnt know one end of a pipe wrench from another when i had them in the workshop.